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MasterofIllusions
MasterofIllusions

Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:09 pm
Folks, Ahsoka needs some respect. I've heard people argue that ventress could beat her, statements saying maul would stomp her. The problem assessing ahsoka is the lack of material on her. Prime ahsoka as of rebels has been in three fights. One of those fights is meaningless as all of the people we are comparing her to would also beat those two inquisitors easily. So really we have to draw mostly from her showing against vader. I do think however we can estimate where she is based on these.

Force powers: Prime ahsoka hasn't used the force all that much. Considering that anyone ahsoka is being compared to could ragdoll inqusitors, we really only have two force feats, pushing vader and deflecting sidious's flames. These feats alone however is enough to say she is extremely powerful. Could kenobi or maul do it?(non canon comics are non canon) Doubtful, Vader is extremely powerful, he is canonically 80% as powerful as sidious. has casually flung tie fighters with ease, has force choked people through holograms, has used the force to survive being trapped under a collapsed palace for weeks, has flung enemy aircraft while actively enganged in dog fights, so force pushing him requires a lot of power. As vader and ahsoka both landed force pushes on each other, is it possible they equals? Its possible but with only one feat from ahsoka, its not something i can say with any degree of confidence. What we know is she is at lease as powerful as kenobi or maul, possibly as powerful as the likes of windu, and possibly, but but unlikely as powerful as vader. Lets take the middle,and put her at the level of mace and dooku. Due to more feats, for now she would be a bit below dooku or windu, though not necessarily outclassed and if we see more of her(which we should), her being placed higher is not out of the question.

Dueling abilities:

Now vader is stated to be in his prime. So ahsoka contending with vader is impressive. Lets take a look into why. In my opinion,Vader is essentially a more advanced dooku. Like dooku, vader became the definitive master in a form and found ways to combat every single other form and compensate for the weaknesses of that form. What sets them apart is that vader implemented all the lightsaber forms in a hybrid technique. I can't think of anyone at the top of my head who did this. Vader also was able to utilize his armor and superior strength while compensating for his speed disadvantage and his one weakness in his armor, his resperator. Vader could deal with multiple opponents and also could deal with single opponents extremely well. He has dueled up to 7 jedi and has beaten the likes of obi wan kenobi, the definitive master of soresu, and luke skywalker. In fact the tfa novelization states he only lost to luke in rotj because he was holding back. This category is where ahsoka is edged out. While he was unable to land hits on her, and she landed two physical strikes on him, one of those was on a distracted vader, and the other had no effect on him. Vader was pushing her back throughout the fight. However, ahsoka's ability to contend with vader puts her at an extremely high skill level. I see her dueling abilities as comparable to anakin and dooku. Both would lose duels with vader, but both would avoid being easily overpowered. Dueling wise i could see kenobi matching vader with skill, but his inferior physique would give vader the edge as it did vs ahsoka.

So what is my final assesment? well i think she is between a tier 8 and 9. She is outmatched by vader, but is not outclassed. She is above the likes of kenobi, but he'd give her a really good fight
Latham2000
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:02 pm
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:02 pm
She's considerably below Vader, though. And IIRC Filoni said that was his prime which is a bit questionable.
Meatpants
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:05 pm
Cringe
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:26 pm
In all seriousness, some good ideas here but just a few nitpicks:



Force powers: Prime ahsoka hasn't used the force all that much. Considering that anyone ahsoka is being compared to could ragdoll inqusitors, we really only have two force feats, pushing vader and deflecting sidious's flames. These feats alone however is enough to say she is extremely powerful. Could kenobi or maul do it?(non canon comics are non canon) Doubtful,
Actually, it's not. Ahsoka barely deflected those flames with the help of Ezra which Sheev was conjuring from Coruscant through a portal he couldn't even really enter through at this point. Chances are the flames were at barely a fraction of their full strength. 

As for the Vader feat, she surprised him and exploited his overconfidence. When they started fighting seriously, he effortlessly dominated her with the Force.



Vader is extremely powerful, he is canonically 80% as powerful as sidious.
Arguably more in canon, actually. 



has casually flung tie fighters with ease, has force choked people through holograms,
Add in choking an officer who was in orbit without a visual feed.



has used the force to survive being trapped under a collapsed palace for weeks,
Days, and this is Legends. 



has flung enemy aircraft while actively enganged in dog fights,
I don't remember this.



so force pushing him requires a lot of power.
Force barriers in canon are inconsistent. Usually, a character has to raise an active barrier to repel them, at least in the case of Rebels. 



As vader and ahsoka both landed force pushes on each other, is it possible they equals? Its possible but with only one feat from ahsoka, its not something i can say with any degree of confidence.

Yeah...no.



Where Ahsoka Tano stands Ec3763a79eb9c5ec2b8dce6f09156387


She catches him when he's unbalanced and from the side, and even then she only moves him a few feet.




Where Ahsoka Tano stands Dbvlhyc-7ff184f4-790d-4162-b088-08d5297c7a05.gif?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzQzMTljNGVhLTMzMzUtNGZjMy04ZmY0LWY1NTY0NGQyYzFjOFwvZGJ2bGh5Yy03ZmYxODRmNC03OTBkLTQxNjItYjA4OC0wOGQ1Mjk3YzdhMDUuZ2lmIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0


Vader outright overpowers her with an effortless Force push that sends her flying over the ledge and which took her a few minutes to recover from.


What we know is she is at lease as powerful as kenobi or maul,
Maul is considerably past his prime at this point, as is Ben. 



possibly as powerful as the likes of windu,
Oh please. Mace in the film and novel held his own against Sidious' lightning while exhausted and in an awkward defensive position. Ahsoka was being overwhelmed by a fraction of his power. 



and possibly, but but unlikely as powerful as vader.
I think you mean "impossible."



Lets take the middle,and put her at the level of mace and dooku. Due to more feats, for now she would be a bit below dooku or windu, though not necessarily outclassed and if we see more of her(which we should), her being placed higher is not out of the question.
Let's not, as all of her feats have context and are in no way comparable to theirs. Hell, a vastly pre-prime Mace's shoving an AT-TE off a cliff >> all of her feats.


Dueling abilities:

Now vader is stated to be in his prime. So ahsoka contending with vader is impressive.
Wasn't it Filoni, the guy who claimed any of the Council members could stomp Luke, who said this? 



Lets take a look into why. In my opinion,Vader is essentially a more advanced dooku. Like dooku, vader became the definitive master in a form and found ways to combat every single other form and compensate for the weaknesses of that form.

Eh, Vader also has quite a few low showings and a lack of good showings in sabers as well. 


What sets them apart is that vader implemented all the lightsaber forms in a hybrid technique.
Legends, not canon.


I can't think of anyone at the top of my head who did this.
Using a myriad of styles doesn't automatically make you better than a guy who was THE master of his chosen form. 



Vader also was able to utilize his armor and superior strength while compensating for his speed disadvantage and his one weakness in his armor, his resperator.
His agility was also a weakness, as the Ahsoka fight showed. 



Vader could deal with multiple opponents and also could deal with single opponents extremely well.
So could Dooku. Better yet, so could the likes of Ventress or TCW Ahsoka. 



He has dueled up to 7 jedi
Legends.


and has beaten the likes of obi wan kenobi, the definitive master of soresu,
...Whose abilities declined. 



and luke skywalker. In fact the tfa novelization states he only lost to luke in rotj because he was holding back.
Can't comment on this as I haven't read that trainwreck of a novel. 



This category is where ahsoka is edged out. While he was unable to land hits on her, and she landed two physical strikes on him, one of those was on a distracted vader, and the other had no effect on him. Vader was pushing her back throughout the fight.
In which case she's not "edged out". It was all she could do to stop him from cleaving her in two with his strikes. 



However, ahsoka's ability to contend with vader puts her at an extremely high skill level.
It does, but Rebels' Vader's lightsaber abilities are virtually impossible to quantify.



I see her dueling abilities as comparable to anakin and dooku.
She had trouble with the Fifth Brother and Seventh Sister.


Both would lose duels with vader, but both would avoid being easily overpowered.
Sabers is highly debatable.



Dueling wise i could see kenobi matching vader with skill, but his inferior physique would give vader the edge as it did vs ahsoka.
Debatable. 


So what is my final assesment? well i think she is between a tier 8 and 9. She is outmatched by vader, but is not outclassed. She is above the likes of kenobi, but he'd give her a really good fight
Respectfully, you've mish-mashed two completely different continuities to create a pretty contentious argument with very little merit beyond some good observations. She'd be about a tier 7 at best. She was clearly struggling to hold off Vader, and her Force feats are utterly lackluster.
MasterofIllusions
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:43 pm
@BreakofDawn i find your lack of knowledge disturbing.

WHAT? Feloni never said that rebels vader was prime vader, it was pablo hidalgo. Feloni has said that rebels kenobi  (2 years before anh) and rebels maul are "very good swordsmen" in comparison to their tcw counterparts, so ahsoka gets scaling from tpm and tcw maul. This isn't canon only, this is composite Vader.
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:02 pm
@BreakofDawn: Will respond later. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1289255181
MasterofIllusions
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:22 pm
Its also worth noting that Ahsoka pushed Maul back twice in saber locks, indicating that she was overpowering Maul. This is highly suggestive that she is stronger than Maul.
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:08 am
@MasterofIllusions wrote:@BreakofDawn i find your lack of knowledge disturbing.

WHAT? Feloni never said that rebels vader was prime vader, it was pablo hidalgo. Feloni has said that rebels kenobi  (2 years before anh) and rebels maul are "very good swordsmen" in comparison to their tcw counterparts, so ahsoka gets scaling from tpm and tcw maul. This isn't canon only, this is composite Vader.
1. It's not "lack of knowledge", so please don't patronise me. It's critical analysis.
2. Pablo's influence AFAIK is limited.
3. You can be "very good" and still inferior to a past iteration of yourself.
4. Then you are way off the mark for Legends Vader.
NotAA3
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:20 am
Vorpal Blade wrote:Cringe
Sjuttiosju
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:33 am
StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:
Vorpal Blade wrote:Cringe
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:33 am
Message reputation : 100% (5 votes)
BreakofDawn wrote:Actually, it's not. Ahsoka barely deflected those flames with the help of Ezra which Sheev was conjuring from Coruscant through a portal he couldn't even really enter through at this point. Chances are the flames were at barely a fraction of their full strength.

I can’t seem to remember an instance when someone engaged with Palpatine wasn’t “barely” defending themselves against him. Those at the business end of Palpatine’s powers are lucky to be defending themselves at all and are never in their comfort range as Force wielders. And something to point out regarding Ezra’s aid during that encounter, which I think is visually clear, is that Ezra only deflected the sorcery that was already dissipated by Ahsoka:

Where Ahsoka Tano stands Unname11

Ahsoka took the brunt of the attack, so I really question how beneficial Ezra’s presence really was.

-----

The claim that Palpatine’s sorcery was “barely at a fraction” of its full strength has literally nothing to substantiate it with. Nothing. So I would like to see at least a fraction of evidence for the claim before you continue to propagate it by a vague hunch.

”BreakofDawn” wrote:As for the Vader feat, she surprised him and exploited his overconfidence.

Who was more caught off-guard in that initial bout, I wonder? Darth Vader, who developed Ahsoka’s training himself and had an intimate familiarity with her fundamental abilities? Or Ahsoka Tano, who entered the fight with no familiarity of her opponent beyond knowing he is a powerful Sith Lord?

How do you know that Vader was overconfident? Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1220391476 And your use of the word “exploited” seems to imply that Ahsoka was aware of Vader’s arrogant mentality and used it to her advantage. Quite the claims, I must say, though unfortunately, they're both baseless.

”BreakofDawn” wrote:She catches him when he's unbalanced and from the side, and even then she only moves him a few feet.

You’re on a roll here, BoD. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 228124001 Are you meaning to tell me that Ahsoka successfully unbalanced Darth Vader and legitimately executed a Force push on him?  Where Ahsoka Tano stands 3344068304

Well, you’d be only half-right, because Vader was not unbalanced and was not caught from the side. He was steadily footed and Ahsoka’s Force push caught him directly in the torso, lol.

(Seriously, I love how you word these critiques of Ahsoka’s performance as if some invisible entity was manipulating Darth Vader the entire fight in order to allow Ahsoka to take advantage of Vader).

Spoiler:
Thanks, Filoni. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 2266747095

”BreakofDawn” wrote:Vader outright overpowers her with an effortless Force push that sends her flying over the ledge and which took her a few minutes to recover from.

You keep inserting weird adjectives to describe the demeanor of the characters in these fights. Vader’s Force push was no more “effortless” than Ahsoka’s from all we could tell, lmao. And unfortunately for Ahsoka, Vader wasn’t standing near a ledge in the first five seconds of the fight. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1648373583

”BreakofDawn” wrote:Maul is considerably past his prime at this point, as is Ben.

The only quote for Maul being past his prime is from Matt Martin, and even he doesn’t say the gap is “considerable,” so I don’t know where you’re getting that from. I believe quotes of Ben’s decline are also non-existent, so I would prefer it if you could substantiate that a bit.

”BreakofDawn” wrote:It does, but Rebels' Vader's lightsaber abilities are virtually impossible to quantify.

Mm, not really. A short time after RotS, Vader is pushing back a former Jedi Council member (Eeth Koth) in a duel, which gives us a ballpark of where Vader is operating over a decade before his duel with Ahsoka.

”BreakofDawn” wrote:She had trouble with the Fifth Brother and Seventh Sister.

Lol, besides the obvious authorial intent in that duel, Ahsoka is so unthreatened by the end of the (brief) fight that she literally deactivates her lightsabers and proceeds to physically and telekinetically disarm and incapacitate the Seventh Sister. The implication that there was any degree of parity between the duo and Ahsoka is patently absurd.

”BreakofDawn” wrote:She was clearly struggling to hold off Vader, and her Force feats are utterly lackluster.

Ahsoka during the Empire era was an elite player that held her own against some of the most powerful dark siders in Star Wars. Although her Force feats don’t usually come in the way of the typically lauded “picking up heavy things,” I think her ability to hang with Darth Vader, who has a litany of powerful telekinetic feats under his belt (including liberally using his powers in fights against Jedi, such as Eeth Koth, Kanan Jarrus, and Ezra Bridger), implies her power much better than lifting any heavy object would.
SithSauce
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:25 am
@King Joker when did Matt Martin say Maul didn't decline considerably? He basically said he was out of practice in Rebels
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:45 pm
Canon source saying that Ben declined:

“This duel was very different from their last. Obi-Wan was older and weaker while Vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thrist for revenge.” — Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force (2016).
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:46 pm
Canon source saying that Ben declined:

"This duel was very different from their last. Obi-Wan was older and weaker while Vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thirst for revenge." -- Jedi vs Sith (2016)
MasterofIllusions
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:32 pm
BreakofDawn wrote:
@MasterofIllusions wrote:@BreakofDawn i find your lack of knowledge disturbing.

WHAT? Feloni never said that rebels vader was prime vader, it was pablo hidalgo. Feloni has said that rebels kenobi  (2 years before anh) and rebels maul are "very good swordsmen" in comparison to their tcw counterparts, so ahsoka gets scaling from tpm and tcw maul. This isn't canon only, this is composite Vader.
1. It's not "lack of knowledge", so please don't patronise me. It's critical analysis.
2. Pablo's influence AFAIK is limited.
3. You can be "very good" and still inferior to a past iteration of yourself.
4. Then you are way off the mark for Legends Vader.
1. my bad, I thought you were a noob.
2. Pablo is a lucasfilm story group member, his word > yours.
3. that's not what feloni said. He said that Maul and Kenobi are "very good swordsmen" as a reason for their shorter fight in twin suns in comparison to their more "prolonged" fights in TCW, hence his comment about growth. To demonstrate what I mean:

"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see another prolonged lightsaber fight."
4. How am I way off the mark? Canon Vader gets multiple levels of scaling from Kenobi/Maul/Ahsoka, so he's not fodder in comparison to legends vader.
MasterofIllusions
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:35 pm
@Latham2000 wrote:Canon source saying that Ben declined:

"This duel was very different from their last. Obi-Wan was older and weaker while Vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thirst for revenge." -- Jedi vs Sith (2016)
Retconned by Feloni. That quote is predates Feloni's 2017 confirmation that ben kenobi has grown as a swordsman, so it's outdated.
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:58 pm
..........Apparently a vague comment from Filoni that could mean anything takes precedence over a quote that explicitly says the opposite.
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:02 pm
@King Joker: Great post. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1289255181

@Latham2000: Hm, that doesn't seem to add up. Jedi vs Sith is an in-universe Legends source, and the "even stronger" quote is from a Legends Scholastic kids book. It's possible that they reprinted that book again (though I would need proof of that), but I wouldn't say that should be taken as irrecoverably binding even if so.
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:09 pm
KJ ragdolling.

Where Ahsoka Tano stands 228124001
Latham2000
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:10 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:@King Joker: Great post. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1289255181

@Latham2000: Hm, that doesn't seem to add up. Jedi vs Sith is an in-universe Legends source, and the "even stronger" quote is from a Legends Scholastic kids book. It's possible that they reprinted that book again (though I would need proof of that), but I wouldn't say such should be taken irrecoverably binding regardless.

OK, how about this one:

As the Rebels escape, Ben and Vader are locked in an epic clash of the force! Though they are now both older and damaged compared to their former selves, it is still a sight to behold! Luke can do nothing but stare in awe. wrote:-- Adventures: The Daring Escape!
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:12 pm
Hm, I guess that one checks out. Link to the book that's from?
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:27 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:Hm, I guess that one checks out. Link to the book that's from?

@greysentinel365 found it, so you should ask him.
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:51 pm
Will get back to this when I get access to wi-fi (again).
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Where Ahsoka Tano stands Empty Re: Where Ahsoka Tano stands

on Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:51 pm
Before I begin, it's worth mentioning I wrote this after a 2 and a half lecture on Israeli elections and other stuff, so my brain was basically fried when trying to express myself. Now then:





I can’t seem to remember an instance when someone engaged with Palpatine wasn’t “barely” defending themselves against him. Those at the business end of Palpatine’s powers are lucky to be defending themselves at all and are never in their comfort range as Force wielders. And something to point out regarding Ezra’s aid during that encounter, which I think is visually clear, is that Ezra only deflected the sorcery that was already dissipated by Ahsoka:

Where Ahsoka Tano stands Unname11

Ahsoka took the brunt of the attack, so I really question how beneficial Ezra’s presence really was.

The claim that Palpatine’s sorcery was “barely at a fraction” of its full strength has literally nothing to substantiate it with. Nothing. So I would like to see at least a fraction of evidence for the claim before you continue to propagate it by a vague hunch.
Hoo boy, this is going to be a long post.

First, I'll address the "barely at a fraction of its full strength" bit. 

To begin, it's worth emphasising the nature of the World Between Worlds as a gateway between all of time and space. This dimension is only entered through specific portals, which allow the user to step through. To date, the only entrance we actively know of is the one in the temple of Lothal. Beyond this, there's no known way to actually enter the dimension without it, as Sheev's numerous attempts to pull Ezra towards him have proven. In fact, Sheev's alchemy is the closest we've seen to someone piercing the dimension without the Lothal temple.

However, what must be stressed here is that Sheev explicitly needed Ezra to enter the WbW. Before this, Sheev is essentially blasting power at a tiny window into a completely different dimension with completely different temporal and spatial physics to the mainstream Star Wars universe. During the struggle between himself, Ezra and Ahsoka, he is essentially trying to blast his power through a tiny window in space and time which his sorcery temporarily opened. 

Even if you don't believe this to be the case, there are numerous indications during the struggle that Sheev is just toying with them:

Where Ahsoka Tano stands Screen37
Where Ahsoka Tano stands Screen39
Where Ahsoka Tano stands Screen38

Notice the passage of the flames. After Ezra gets involved, there's a few seconds of the two holding off the flames with immense difficulty (complete with Ahsoka being forced backwards), then suddenly the flames don't quite dissipate. Instead, they're withdrawn, as though Sheev is either enjoying this (emphasised by him basically wetting himself laughing) or that he's limited in his power at this specific point and is forced to withdraw them. Either way, his power is limited. Sidious is clearly enjoying this confrontation and savouring it. He knows he's going to win no matter what, so he's clearly taking his time to the point that he even gives them a second to recover so he can revel in their fear before finishing them off. He's not going all-out at this point, especially since he also needs Ezra (or Ahsoka) alive to show him the way into the World between Worlds. 



Who was more caught off-guard in that initial bout, I wonder? Darth Vader, who developed Ahsoka’s training himself and had an intimate familiarity with her fundamental abilities? Or Ahsoka Tano, who entered the fight with no familiarity of her opponent beyond knowing he is a powerful Sith Lord?

Any indication Anakin and Vader's fighting styles are massively different? If anything, Ahsoka would have an even better chance as a result of Vader's poor agility.

How do you know that Vader was overconfident? Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1220391476 And your use of the word “exploited” seems to imply that Ahsoka was aware of Vader’s arrogant mentality and used it to her advantage. Quite the claims, I must say, though unfortunately, they're both baseless.

Poor phrasing on my part. No idea where I was going with that, lol.



You’re on a roll here, BoD. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 228124001 Are you meaning to tell me that Ahsoka successfully unbalanced Darth Vader and legitimately executed a Force push on him?  Where Ahsoka Tano stands 3344068304

Yes, she pushed him. Just like Ezra & Kanan, Kirak Infil'a and Eeth Koth all pushed him (the former did it to the extent that they knocked him onto his back) despite him proving to be considerably superior to all of them. And no, she didn't unbalance him, so don't twist my words.

Where Ahsoka Tano stands Screen42

Took this a split second before she pushed him. Note that Vader is leaning fowards (AKA unbalanced) and with his saber held high above him, giving him no way to block or counter her push in any respect. 


Well, you’d be only half-right, because Vader was not unbalanced and was not caught from the side. He was steadily footed and Ahsoka’s Force push caught him directly in the torso, lol.

The screenshot I took above disproves all but the last bit.  Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1220391476 

I'm curious: if Muhammed Ali in his prime held his hands above his head and the average man got a lucky punch in, do you think they could replicate that when he's actively defending against it? Because that is literally the situation here. 

(Seriously, I love how you word these critiques of Ahsoka’s performance as if some invisible entity was manipulating Darth Vader the entire fight in order to allow Ahsoka to take advantage of Vader).
Better than oversimplifying it to "Ahsoka pushed Vader, so she must be as strong."



You keep inserting weird adjectives to describe the demeanor of the characters in these fights. Vader’s Force push was no more “effortless” than Ahsoka’s from all we could tell, lmao. And unfortunately for Ahsoka, Vader wasn’t standing near a ledge in the first five seconds of the fight. Where Ahsoka Tano stands 1648373583

Funny how she was on the defensive the entire fight and yet wasn't able to defend herself against this whereas Vader was still able to ground himself enough to move only a few feet whereas she was sent flying. And no, it was nothing to do with there being a ledge there:
Where Ahsoka Tano stands Screen43 Where Ahsoka Tano stands Screen44

The ledge is about 5 feet away and Vader's push clearly completely overwhelms her, sending her flying head over heels across the distance between them and the ledge and over it. 

The only quote for Maul being past his prime is from Matt Martin, and even he doesn’t say the gap is “considerable,” so I don’t know where you’re getting that from. I believe quotes of Ben’s decline are also non-existent, so I would prefer it if you could substantiate that a bit.

Latham has already provided one for Ben. As for Matt Martin, the exact quote is referring to duelling ability, which I already think Rebels Ahsoka > Rebels Maul in since the latter is so out of practice. It's power that I think Maul > Ahsoka in.


Mm, not really. A short time after RotS, Vader is pushing back a former Jedi Council member (Eeth Koth) in a duel, which gives us a ballpark of where Vader is operating over a decade before his duel with Ahsoka.

Eeth Koth's best feat is holding his own against Grievous for a time. And Koth and Vader were pretty even throughout that fight, with Vader only winning when he chose to use the Force. 





Lol, besides the obvious authorial intent  in that duel, Ahsoka is so unthreatened by the end of the (brief) fight that she literally deactivates her lightsabers and proeeds to physically and telekinetically disarm and incapacitate the Seventh Sister. The implication that there was any degree of parity between the duo and Ahsoka is patently absurd.

That was more of a joke point than anything. 


Ahsoka during the Empire era was an elite player that held her own against some of the most powerful dark siders in Star Wars. Although her Force feats don’t usually come in the way of the typically lauded “picking up heavy things,” I think her ability to hang with Darth Vader, who has a litany of powerful telekinetic feats under his belt (including liberally using his powers in fights against Jedi, such as Eeth Koth, Kanan Jarrus, and Ezra Bridger), implies her power  much better than lifting any heavy object would.
As I've established, she's not the first to land a Force push on Vader, and to be honest the impact of it was less than Kanan & Ezra's, despite the two of them clearly being below Vader by a massive margin as well as per Filoni:
Where Ahsoka Tano stands 5659463-kanan%20vader%20gifWhere Ahsoka Tano stands 5380673-5131716-3721419333-51290Where Ahsoka Tano stands Rco00810
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