Re: SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

March 21st 2020, 1:58 pm

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote: @BoD @NotAA3 @IG @MasterCilghal @Xolthol @LadyKulvax @KingofBlades: Post is up.

March 21st 2020, 2:05 pm

DC ragdolling SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 3 3344068304

March 21st 2020, 2:10 pm

Yeah, let's refrain from putting other members down shall we? While I appreciate that you like the post just give it a star and comment such, no need to get into this "ragdolling" nonsense.

March 21st 2020, 2:29 pm

Awesome post

March 21st 2020, 4:09 pm

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:Yeah, let's refrain from putting other members down shall we? While I appreciate that you like the post just give it a star and comment such, no need to get into this "ragdolling" nonsense.

jeez relax man

March 21st 2020, 7:16 pm

The lord of hunger wrote:

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:Yeah, let's refrain from putting other members down shall we? While I appreciate that you like the post just give it a star and comment such, no need to get into this "ragdolling" nonsense.

jeez relax man

March 22nd 2020, 12:33 am

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

So you're completely abandoning a Force debate? Wise.

Unless you can establish a meaningful method of comparison between their vastly differing accomplishments yes, I will be abandoning a force debate and focusing on sabers instead.

Arguing variety to dismiss the entire section of that fight, doesn't fly. Exar Kun has better telekinetic, telepathic and so on, feats. It's not really that arguable. Kun's scaling over others and the feats he has in his own right aren't just more numerous and varied but are of grander scale to boot. He has Force techniques that render the combined knowledge of the Adas, Nadd, Darth Revan and Darth Bane holocrons useless and does the same for the Banite archives and Jedi Temples archives.

If Kun wants to force a Force battle he can and will:

Dark Apprentice wrote:Kyp made a dismissive gesture with one hand, and a sudden wave of dark ripples splashed across the air like the shock front from a concussion grenade.
Luke stumbled backward. The lightsaber turned cold in his hand. Frost crystals grew in feathery patterns around the handle. At the core of the brilliant green blade a shadow appeared, a black disease rotting away the purity of the beam. The humming blade sputtered, sounding like a sickly cough. The black taint rapidly grew stronger, swallowing up the green beam.
With a fuzzle of sparks Luke's lightsaber died.

****

Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

Well, I'll take your basis of Marek and raise you Warb Null, who has the combined combative memories of King Adas and Freedon Nadd:

Which doesn't mean he's their peer, or even close really. It's not the knowledge afforded to you that matters, it's how efficiently you apply that knowledge. I'm speaking from experience as a fencer here. Having 2 years worth of knowledge that my opponents did not never stopped them from thrashing me, due to the fact that my application of what I knew was poor by contrast. But regardless, let's address what you posted for Adas and Nadd:

Except Null doesn't just have their combined knowledge, he outright has their literal 'memories' and 'wisdom of combat and the mastery inherent therein. So this argument doesn't fly:

Hammer wrote:He knew these things. He had their memories, their wisdom, the cunning of the Sith.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

King Adas being the warrior who spent three centuries as the greatest swordsman in the Sith Empire:

You didn't provide a source for this, nor did you make note of anybody impressive that this puts him above, even if we're to presume you're correct.

The images I uploaded didn't work, this is them in text:

Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties wrote:Ruling nearly 3,000 years before the rise of the Galactic Republic, King Adas was a massive, regal being encased in majestic ebon warrior armor. Raised from his youth as a chosen being due to the charcoal pigment of his skin, Adas demonstrated great intelligence, fighting prowess, and a tremendous aptitude for Sith magic. With his alchemically forged battle-ax, Adas led the bloody unification of Korriban's disparate nations and became its undisputed world ruler. The Sith people came to believe that King Adas was immortal and that his reign would be eternal.

And he remained the most skilled and powerful Sith until the Jedi Exiles came well over 24,000 years later:

Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties wrote:Eventually, almost two-dozen millennia after Adas' death, a proper successor to Adas seemed to come at last. Known in Republic space as the Exiles, traitorous Jedi defeated in a galactic war called the Hundred-Year Darkness arrived on Korriban and cowed the Sith people with their astounding Force abilities, lightsabers, and superior technology.

The Jedi Exiles are the first to be powerful and skilled enough to be successors to Adas. Yet among them, Karness Muur has demonstrated lightsaber skill to the point of contending with, and driving back, a Krayt decades more skilled and powerful than the incarnation of A'sharad Hett that on numerous occasions nearly kills what was basically ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi in a duel.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

Freedon Nadd being the one who defeated and killed Master Metta Tremayne; lightsaber instructor and expert in all its forms:

Being an expert in all forms doesn't compare to "all but perfecting" saber combat in its entirety.

I mean I can very easily argue semantics here, but I don't need to. Nadd defeats Metta and then goes on to learn everything he could from the holocron of (shocker) King Adas and then Naga Sadow himself prior to a century of improving.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

Prior to learning everything Naga Sadow knew, including lightsaber techniques:

Subject to the same rebuttal contained at the start of the post.

You're trying to draw out a dismissal based on something that just is not a factor here. The main point in the first place is to show how much Nadd grows after beating Metta. Which is massively.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

All of which was prior to a century of Nadd killing more Jedi than anyone in history had, including Tulak Hord:

Which means squat. Nadd doesn't have to even be close to Hord to have killed more Jedi, he can have had greater and more numerous oppurtunities to do so, fought weaker adversaries ect ect.

It doesn't 'mean squat' at all, I guess the following is worthless then too?

"I completed training as both jedi and sith. I honed my skills in the clone wars and I've killed thousands of opponents since then." - Darth Krayt

It shows that Nadd grew in skill and perfected his combative prowess for a century.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

That was the level of Warb Null's combative knowledge, when Ulic completely out-duelled him:

Not without major difficulty.

'Major difficulty' that has the context of fighting through Null's Force wave, as well as the environment draining away his life on an 'immeasurable' dark side nexus that held stronger dark side energy than Arca Jeth had ever felt:

Tales of the Jedi Companion wrote:Fighting past a wall of dark force, Ulic manages to destroy Warb Null.

Arca Jeth, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"Dark Side energy, the strongest I've ever felt."

Insider 27 wrote:The Naddists were aided immeasurably by the mystical up welling of the dark-side power of Freedon Nadd still prevalent throughout Onderon.

Even decades after Nadd's spirit is destroyed, the energies of his sarcophagus bestow a 'tremendous advantage' on dark side Force users:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"Freedon Nadd's power appears to have been underestimated. His legacy lives on within the very stones of his resting place. Anyone attuned to the dark side would have a tremendous advantage here."

Warb Null, a warrior with the combative 'memories' and 'wisdom' of Nadd and Adas aided by 'immeasurable' dark side energies vastly greater than what would already be 'tremendous' aid isn't capable of defeating Jedi Ulic Qel-Droma whose life force is drained and his power massively hindered by the very thing amping Null. But better yet, whilst that source must take into consideration the aforementioned amplifications. Null's own masters, Ommin and Nadd, agree that Ulic would kick his ass regardless:

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ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

Speaking of Asajj Ventress, her most deadly lightsaber technique was in fact an Exar Kun technique:

This is referencing a gameplay mechanic, nothing more. Not inclined to accept it.

It very clearly isn't, you don't get to decide what qualifies as canonical. I guess all of those feats from strategy guides in Revan, Meetra, Kyle Katarn, Starkiller and other RTs need to be deleted now.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

Which brings me to your argument. Mara is indeed impressive, as impressive as Asajj Ventress? Not even close.

I never said she was.

Glad we can reach agreement.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:

Ventress routinely contested Anakin Skywalker, Mando Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi whereas Mara was only on par with Kyle Katarn, as you've shown.

You've not connected Skywalker or Kenobi to Katarn, so I have no reason to care.

I don't need to, Anakin and Obi-Wan are two of the greatest duelists of all time, capable of outmatching and stalemating Darth Tyranus; a peer of Yoda and Mace Windu, respectively. Their superiority to someone like Kyle is unquestionable.

But feel free not to care, that'll just make this a whole lot easier.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:Now, let's consider for a minute here. Caedus matching Juke indicates superior aug to Kun,

There's a majorly problematic factor in the scaling you use to argue so. Namely that Luke is obviously performing nowhere near the height of his power, as we know he's basically capable of bullying Caedus at will in a calmed state. Not considering how much Luke's power is repeatedly stated to be greater than previously thought in LOTF.

But far more importantly, given the degree by which Exar Kun scales from Kueller, I can easily argue Kun's genuinely up with one of the incarnations of NJO Luke and that's a far better indication than a snakes and ladders way of saying Caedus is > an earlier LOTF Luke.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:His scaling to Galen puts him out of his reach in technical skill,

Literally the most pre-prime Jedi Ulic there is, well before he even goes to fight Amanoa, already has generic nigh perfection accolades that compare:

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:While his brother [Ulic] perfected his combat skills

But Galen's near perfect skill is supposedly proof of superiority for Caedus over Kun? Oh, please. Kun has far better genuine scaling than that.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:Your chain doesn't disprove that, it's built on a variety of false notions that don't withstand scrutiny in the slightest.

That's humorous at best, because I'm thinking exactly that but in reverse.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:On top of the aformentioned, Caedus's pain tolerance (Which allows him to take non-deadly lightsaber strikes without issue, even being amped by them as shown versus Luke)

Pre-Cinnagar Exar Kun via scaling from Nadd in both power and knowledge, can instantaneously heal his skeleton being shattered. I think lightsaber hits would be of minor inconvenience by comparison:

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Exar Kun, Galactic Files wrote:This leads him to the tomb of a long-deceased Dark Lord named Freedon Nadd, a spirit who is destroyed by Kun after all of his magical knowledge is absorbed.

Hell even Kreia can tank and heal self-impalement on a lightsaber and she's well beneath Kun's tier:

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SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 3 5458111-0140979872-54191

But that's beside the point, Kun literally wears cortosis-weave armor meaning that even if Caedus manages to get a shot in with his lightsaber this only results in Caedus' blade shorting out, with Kun then killing him:

Yavin: The Big Red One wrote:Cortosis weave -- The armor is laced with cortosis fiber.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:and fighting sight (Which prevents anything Kun does from being unpredictable) will only make this easier,

Given Exar Kun's precognition combined with his style is stated to make him virtually unstoppable in lightsaber combat, I'm not inclined to take that as some major pin in Caedus' cap:

The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology wrote:By coupling these tactics with his Force abilities to predict the actions of his opponents, Kun became virtually unstoppable in combat.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:and should allow victory even if I accept the idea that Kun is Caedus's marginal superior as a martial combatant conventionally.

It really won't, for example I don't see people going around stating that the Exile's incredible abilities in Precognition, Echani precognition, Moving Meditation and predictive Mandalorian martial arts cause her to punch well above her weight.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:My boy wins, plain and simple.

A boy he may be, the victor he most certainly isn't.

March 22nd 2020, 12:34 am

@ScionOfSkywalker77 @BoD @NotAA3 @IG @MasterCilghal @Xolthol @KingofBlades

Post is up.

March 22nd 2020, 2:22 am

Cool post

March 22nd 2020, 7:21 am

I'll get something up as quickly as I can (Nothing else to do anyway due to the virus) so we can wrap this up and actually have an SS that finishes.

March 22nd 2020, 7:37 am

Good posts both of you

March 22nd 2020, 8:50 am

So here is the thing about AP (I'm not mocking btw) it has been so long since someone has actually looked into Kun like this for him or her debates like these are just stretching his or her wings. You have to respect someone who has fun with what they do, that's what this hobby is all about

March 22nd 2020, 11:09 am

I think AP is definitely Male. In fact, I bet he’s true alpha power—bald with a moustache or rocking some tattoos, maybe both. Bald Zez Kai-Ell SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 3 1306544554

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 3 1306544554

August 18th 2020, 9:49 pm Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)

Five months, new record KlausFan77.

August 19th 2020, 11:45 am

Yah, sorry bro, it'll be up. Just a little longer.