A Case for Darth Plagueis and Midi-chlorian Manipulation

A Case for Darth Plagueis and Midi-chlorian Manipulation

In this Blog I will aim to raise Plagueis to his rightful placement in one of my stunning first moves to bring forth the new age.
In recent times Plagueis has been disrespected and ranked significantly below his true power level, which has gone widely unknown, I intent to change that and enlighten the people about the true might of Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Plagueis The Wise aka Hego Demask II.

I shall go about this by expanding on the ability of Midi-chlorian Manipulation and the implications of its usage, all as seen in in Revenge of the Sith. My intention is to raise Darth Plagueis to at least on par with early Post-Order 66 Darth Vader and Darth Sidious, all in accordance with George Lucas

The common ranking of Darth Plagueis is possibly the biggest injustice in debating history, but no more


“The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of.”

Lets begin...

Plagueis' placement comes through the ability of Midi-chlorian Manipulation not just at its base application but at the level where one holds power over life and death.

There seems to be 2 components to achieve Midi-chlorian Manipulation
- The Power Component 
- The Knowledge/Will Component

Return of the Jedi: wrote:Master Yoda, you cant die

Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong

In Revenge of the Sith, Darth Plagueis is a sort of plot point intended to be an all powerful figure even Anakin Skywalker is in awe of, as Palpatine tells Anakin about how Plagueis was so powerful and so wise that he could create life and stop others from dying

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:PALPATINE: (continuing) Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis "the wise"?

ANAKIN: No.

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

ANAKIN: He could actually save people from death?

PALPATINE: The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

ANAKIN: What happened to him?

PALPATINE: He became so powerful . . . the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. (smiles) Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.

Revenge of the Sith Novelization wrote:"This puts me in mind of an old legend," Palpatine murmured idly. "Anakin-are you familiar with The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?"
 Anakin shook his head. 
"Ah, I thought not. It is not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend, of a Dark Lord who had turned his sight inward so deeply that he had come to comprehend, and master life itself. And-because the two are one, when seen clearly enough-death itself." Anakin sat up. Was he actually hearing this? "He could keep someone safe from death?" "According to the legend," Palpatine said, "he could directly influence the midi-chlorians to create life; with such knowledge, to maintain life in someone already living would seem a small matter, don't you agree?" A universe of possibility blossomed inside Anakin's head. He murmured, 
"Stronger than death . . ." 
"The dark side seems to be-from my reading-the pathway to many abilities some would consider unnatural." Anakin couldn't seem to get his breath. "What happened to him?" "Oh, well, it is a tragedy, after all, you know. Once he has gained this ultimate power, he has nothing to fear save losing it-that's why the Jedi Council brought him to mind, you know." 
"But what happened?" 
"Well, to safeguard his power's existence, he teaches the path toward it to his apprentice."
 "And?" 
"And his apprentice kills him in his sleep," Palpatine said with a careless shrug. "Plageuis never sees it coming. That's the tragic irony, you see: he can save anyone in the galaxy from death-except himself."
 "What about the apprentice? What happens to him?"
 "Oh, him. He goes on to become the greatest Dark Lord the Sith have ever known . . ."
 "So," Anakin murmured, "it's only a tragedy for Plagueis-for the apprentice, the legend has a happy ending . . ."
 "Oh, well, yes. Quite right. I'd never really thought of it that way-rather like what we were talking about earlier, isn't it?"
 "What if," Anakin said slowly, almost not daring to speak the words, "it's not just a legend?" "I'm sorry?"
"What if Darth Plagueis really lived-what if someone really had this power?" "Oh, I am ... rather certain . . . that Plagueis did indeed exist. And if someone actually had this power-well, he would indeed be one of the most powerful men in the galaxy, not to mention virtually immortal ..." "How would I find him?"

Here the power of Midi-chlorian Manipulation is made clear to be directly related to power, i.e you have to be X powerful to perform Y feat, this is also made evident in multiple source book quotes... 



You will notice a common trend where Plagueis is 'so powerful' he can perform Y feat. 

Within the context of the film it is not even called Midi-chlorian Manipulation it is simply stated that one can actually be so powerful that they can stop others from dying and create life, basically, the whole Ability of MM to the point of of creating life is achieved at the absolute panicle of power, where one is just so powerful they have mastery over life and death

Midi-chlorian Manipulation is essentially nothing but power + will applied in the right way

Darth Plagueis wrote:”I began with experiments on scurriers and other small creatures. I used my will, amplified through my body’s own midi-chlorians, to override the lesser concentrated midi-chlorian voices of the test subjects. This proved more challenging than I predicted. Because midi-chlorians are linked by a universal mind, the ones in my own cells seem to resist this imposition upon their fellows. But eventually I succeeded, first with small creatures, then with slaves purchased from the Hutts. I forced midi-chlorians to override their natural life cycles.”

Darth Plagueis wrote:But Plagueis now understood that Tenebrous had been wrong about sorcery, as he had been wrong about so many things. Yes, the gift was strongest in those who, with scant effort, could allow themselves to be subsumed by the currents of the Force and become conduits for the powers of the dark side. But there was an alternative path to those abilities, and it led from a place where the circle closed on itself and sheer will substituted for selflessness. Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn’t master through an effort of will.

So once the power threshold is reached, It is a level of power so great that then it just requires one to will it to happen as made clear in the Plagueis Novel passages above

Midi-chlorian Manipulation is essentially nothing but power + will applied in the right way

Anakin after learning of this ability is on a journey to achieve the power to be able to save Padme, in fact we can see this being built up since Attack of the Clones

Attack of the Clones Script wrote:PADMÉ: Sometimes there are things no one can fix. You're not all-powerful, Annie. ANAKIN turns and walks away from the bench. ANAKIN: (angry) I should be! Someday I will be... I will be the most powerful Jedi ever! I promise you, I will even learn to stop people from dying.

...

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:ANAKIN: I have found a way to save you. PADME: Save me? ANAKIN: From my nightmares. 

PADME: Is that what's bothering you? ANAKIN: I won't lose you, Padme. PADME: I'm not going to die in childbirth, Annie. I promise you. ANAKIN: No, I promise you! I am becoming so powerful with my new knowledge of the Force, I will be able to keep you from dying. 

PADME looks ANAKIN in the eye. 

PADME: You don't need more power, Anakin. I believe you can protect me against anything, just as you are.

Hayden Christensen DVD Commentary Revenge of the Sith wrote:Palpatine shares a story, an old Sith tale about this Sith who has acquired these abilities and these powers which very much impresses Anakin at the very core of his fears and desires and this gets the wheels churning definitely

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:PALPATINE: Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death.

---

PALPATINE: You have great wisdom, Anakin. Know the power of the dark side. The power to save Padme.

Anakin has great wisdom but is not powerful enough, Palpatine knows Anakin needs to reach the power component to be capable of this

-George Lucas DVD Commentary Revenge of the Sith wrote:it moved the point were Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you see that now that its very clear that he's, he wants him to go on trial, so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:ANAKIN: Just help me save Padme's life. I can't live without her. I won't let her die. I want the power to stop death. 
---
 PALPATINE: To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret.

Revenge of the Sith Adult Novelization wrote:"I want your power. I want the power to stop death." "That power only my Master truly achieved, but together we will find it. The Force is strong with you, my boy. You can do anything."

Now Sidious thinks Anakin will be powerful enough after Order 66

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:PALPATINE: We must move quickly. The Jedi are relentless; if they are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end. First, I want you to go to the Jedi Temple. We will catch them off balance. Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save Padme.

and he explicitly has to undergo the huge power growth before being capable of this

and then only after Order-66 are Anakin and Sidious shown to posses this level of power, only after the ascendant dark caused by the mass extinction of the Jedi in Order-66 side makes them stronger do they now have the power over life and death, the power of Darth Plagueis




there is comparison to be drawn here...

Power channeled through Body and Mind, just as seen in the Plagueis Novel with power and will(/mind) channeled through the body

Darth Plagueis wrote:I began with experiments on scurriers and other small creatures. I used my will, amplified through my body’s own midi-chlorians

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:PALPATINE: Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death.

in order to save one from certain death

It is only at this level of power can one save another, from certain death, this is the level of power that Lucas thinks is the absolute pinnacle, the point where one quite literally has power over life and death and that Anakin must meet before being capable of having the power to save Padme





George says that Anakin thinks he is powerful enough on Mustafar

Revenge of the Sith Script wrote:ANAKIN: Is Obi-Wan going to protect you? He can't ... he can't help you. He's not strong enough. PADME: Anakin, all I want is your love.
 
ANAKIN: Love won't save you, Padme. Only my new powers can do that. PADME: At what cost? You are a good person. Don't do this.

ANAKIN: I won't lose you the way I lost my mother! I've become more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of and I've done it for you. To protect you. 
—-

ANAKIN: Don't you see, we don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him, and together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be.

Here Anakin says Obi-Wan is 'not strong enough' so he 'cant' protect Padme, and that only his new powers 'can' because he has now reached the power component


Lucas now says Anakin has got 'all these new powers' and everything is fine the goes on to say this again

George Lucas - The Force Interview 2010 wrote:he made a pact with the devil, to be able to become all powerful, but of course when he did that, she didn't want anything to do with him anymore, so he lost her, once you are powerful, being able to bring her back from the dead. Well if I can do that then I can be emperor of the universe

Here Lucas says that Anakin makes a pact with Sidious to gain the power to cheat death and that this level of power is 'All Powerful" and that that is indeed the level where one is powerful enough 'to bring her back from the dead' and that Anakin 'did' indeed reach that power, and did not possess that power prior to Mustafar, this quote is essentially Lucas just confirming that, yes, Anakin on Mustafar is now powerful enough to bring people back from the dead, it is completely a power thing 

George Lucas wrote:Now, there’s a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it’s left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the midichlorians to create him,

Here Lucas also calls Plagueis a 'super-sith' due to being able to create life and influence Midi-Chlorians 

So what does Lucas say about power over life and death - you have to be as powerful as Anakin on Mustafar
Who in G-Canon is also capable of power over life and death - Darth Plagueis 
G-Canon actually dictates Plagueis' power level be MFV Level 

So George first says Anakin thinks he is powerful enough and then that 'he's got all these new powers' and that Anakin thinks everything is now fine due to him already hitting the threshold and the ability now being officially within reach, and confirming the level of Plagueis, Sidious and Vader is "all powerful"

Anakin is officially on the level of the power needed to have power over life and death.

Since Anakin finds out about this power to save Padme, the rest of the film is essentially Anakin and his power progression to achieve this power (the power of Plagueis) until he eventually on Mustafar thinks he is powerful enough to have the power over life and death

To elaborate, this is not some scheme put in place by Sidious in order to lure Anakin over to the dark side, that would be a huge point to make and Lucas never even mentions that anywhere, only that Anakin needs to reach the power and that he thinks he is at that power and that he does in fact have those new powers...

so we have the Power component and the wisdom component, and Anakin is alluded to already possess the wisdom required but simply needs to discover the secret, and he only gets the power on Mustafar, and then even thinks he can achieve the ultimate goal by himself from then on, without Sidious, as alluded to multiple times for example in the alternate ending of the ROTS Video game where Vader kills Sidious as soon as he kills Kenobi



And as also seen in Dark Lord Rise of Darth Vader...

Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader wrote:And yet, if not for events on Mustafar, Anakin would sit now on the Coruscant throne, his wife by his side, their child in her arms..

Where Anakin is said to 'sit on the throne' implying that he would have killed the Emperor shortly after the events on Mustafar and now be the Emperor, with his wife by his side also implying that he would have succeeded in saving her, all just shortly after Mustafar

Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader wrote:Had Vader killed Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he might have attempted to kill Sidious, as well. In fact, Sidious would have been surprised if Anakin hadn't made an attempt. Now, however, incapable of so much as breathing on his own, Vader could not rise to the challenge, and Sidious understood that he would need to do everything in his power to shake Vader out of his despair, and reawaken the incredible power within him.

So it turns out that the knowledge component is very little and that at this peak level of power there is not far to go from here, Anakin feels he has the power already and can do the rest by himself, the rest being to simply will what he chooses in the right way

So it seem that to achieve MM one must reach this pinnacle level of power, the ability simply comes with the power, all must first reach this level power to be able to achieve this, Plagueis however seems to have a natural affinity for MM due to Tenebrous' machinations 

The Tenebrous Way wrote:Thus was the ground carefully prepared. Thus did the seed of Plagueis' fear sprout and blossom into obsession. Thus had Tenebrous skillfully re-directed his apprentice's unparalleled aptitude for midi-chlorian manipulation away from the deepening of insight, from the intuition of the future, and from the amassing of personal and political power-away from any and all pursuits that might have proven inconvenient for Tenebrous' ultimate plan-toward a single goal. A goal Tenebrous had chosen for his own purposes. 
 The mastery of life and death.

----

He had exterminated his doddering Master with his customary efficiency, and had embarked immediately on a decades-spanning quest for an apprentice of his own. And not just an apprentice, but the apprentice: one possessed of a very specific combination of particular skills-primarily surrounding the direct perception and manipulation of midi-chlorian activity-but also a range of weaknesses, from short-sighted concern with personal profit to an unconquerable dread of the unknown realms beyond the walls of death.

This natural affinity however does not preclude the notion that Plagueis himself must first reach the power level required to achieve MM that Lucas states, that of course being the level of power Sidious and Anakin achieve post Order-66, this is made evident given the amount of times Plagueis is stated to be 'so powerful' that he can perform MM, confirmation that he still had to reach the same power threshold Anakin and Sidious had to 

Essential Readers Companion wrote:where he gained much knowledge and power in the dark side of the force. He gained so much power, his only fear was loosing it, “which eventually, of course, he did”, Darth Sidious would recount to Anakin Skywalker many years later. His most noteble accomplishment was his ability to create life by manipulating the force, and this is rumored to be how Anakin was conceived

again the ability specifically linked to power in the force even by Pablo Hidalgo 

Revenge of the Sith wrote:So powerful and so wise he could influence the midi-chlorians to create life

Besides, Tenebrous muses the above before Plagueis has ever done any Midi-chlorian Manipulation to the unnatural degree, thus the natural affinity would only be an advantage to the lower level of MM like the type of MM TPM Sidious and early Plagueis are capable of anyway, not MM to its 'unnatural' creating life extent which requires the MFV power threshold.

All Force abilities have specific midi-chlorians dictating one's proficiency in the practice. And there is no way there would be midi-chlorians specifically geared toward the 'overriding' of midi-chlorians wills or 'Midi-chlorians geared towards unnaturally dominating other Midi-chlorians' this is why it is unnatural, Lucas even says the ability is unnatural 




And even stating that this ability is going directly against the force and its will

-George Lucas DVD Commentary Revenge of the Sith wrote:Its fear of losing somebody he loves which is the flip side of greed, greed in terms of the emperor... its the greed for power, absolute power over everything. With Anakin its really the power to save the one he loves, but its basically going against the fates and what is natural, but once he thinks he is going to get that power it begins to occur to him that he could have the power to be the emperor of the universe, just even more powerful... He realizes he could have the power to do anything he wants

Anakin Skywalker: Databank wrote:Palpatine recounted an old Sith legend of Darth Plagueis the Wise. Palpatine explained that Plagueis, a Sith Lord, had abilities that some would describe as unnatural. Like an ancient alchemist, he could coax life out of midi-chlorians, either for the purpose of creating new life, or staving off death in others. This was the promised power of the Sith, suggested Palpatine. Anakin, who had been searching for a way to prevent Padmé from dying, listened intently.

(G-Canon)

and then obviously Sidious muses the same in Revenge of the Sith and other sources 

Episode III: Revenge of the Sith wrote:The Dark Side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:In truth, Palpatine was well versed in the ways of the Force, having been apprentice to Darth Plagueis the Wise, a Sith Lord who was a master of arcane and unnatural knowledge.

So how can one be going against what is natural, if he has a natural aptitude? then it wouldn't be unnatural, he is essentially taking this ability to an unnatural degree which he has no aptitude for


With Plagueis himself even saying the ability is unnatural to the extent where his own Midi-chlorians actively resist him, not help him like his natural ability should



Here Plagueis confirms power over life and death is accomplished through the imposition of pure Pneuma (the willpower and spirit/essence aspect of the force) onto Midi-chlorians 



So the power needed to "impose one's will on the Midi-chlorians" in order to "cheat death" requires the MFV power threshold because you need to override the others Midi-chlorians, and your own

Since your own Midi-chlorians resist you, due to the ability being so unnatural

Sidious and Anakin also never even consider a natural aptitude for MM and overriding Midi's, they just know they need to be more powerful and when reaching that level of pinnacle power, they can just feel it, they know they are now powerful enough to have power over life and death. They never make any unique consideration to how tailored their midi-chlorians are for the unique talent of overriding midis, they just know they need to reach X power, which is what the quotes crediting Plagueis with being "so powerful" will be referring to, the power threshold that is established in the films and George Lucas himself 

Sidious is also basing this level of power he thinks is required off of his perception of Plagueis, not considering any unique MM aptitude 

So Plagueis has no natural aptitude for this level of MM because it is simply unnatural and his own Midi's actively resist the application of this ability + the fact that Plagueis is noted to be "so powerful" he can do this which is the MFV threshold 


Plagueis achieves the MFV power threshold just post unbalancing in 42BBY

Darth Plagueis wrote:The question of whether he and Sidious had discovered something new or rediscovered something ancient was beside the point. All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.

The shift had been the outcome of months of intense meditation, during which Plagueis and Sidious had sought to challenge the Force for sovereignty and suffuse the galaxy with the power of the dark side. Brazen and shameless, and at their own mortal peril, they had waged etheric war, anticipating that their own midi-chlorians, the Force’s proxy army, might marshal to boil their blood or stop the beating of their hearts. Risen out of themselves, discorporate and as a single entity, they had brought the power of their will to bear, asserting their sovereignty over the Force. No counterforce had risen against them. In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended

As a result of this unbalancing Sidious and Plagueis receive a power boost, and it is on this same day Plagueis allowed Venamis to die, this is where Plagueis finally hits the threshold, and where he finally has power over life and death, demonstrating his new powers by resurrecting Darth Venamis from the dead...

Darth Plagueis wrote:Then, by manipulating the Bith's midi-chlorians, which should have been inert and unresponsive, Plagueis had resurrected him. The enormity of the event had stunned Sidious into silence and overwhelmed and addled 11-4D's processors, but Plagueis had carried on without assistance, again and again allowing Venamis to die and be returned to life, until the Bith's organs had given out and Plagueis had finally granted him everlasting death

So 42BBY Plagueis ~ MFV ~ Darth Sidious

This is ten years before TPM where Plagueis dies (32BBY) so there are multiple avenues we can go down 

(1) Plagueis grows more powerful for 10 years and is far more powerful than Sidious and Anakin as of the end of Revenge of the Sith by the time of his prime in The Phantom Menace 

The simplest yet most unlikely of the propositions. I think this looks like the least likely of outcomes when considering the narrative intent for Sidious being the most powerful Sith and the culmination of the Banite Sith. i.e him fighting with the full power of the Banite line were this Sidious is basically stated to be > Plagueis 

Revenge of the Sith Novel wrote:Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh. A thousand years of hidden Sith exulted in their victory. "Your time is over! The Sith rule the galaxy! Now and forever!" And it was the whole of the Jedi Order that rocketed from its huddle, making of its own body a weapon to blast the Sith to the ground. "At an end your rule is, and not short enough it was, I must say." There appeared a blade the color of life. From the shadow of a black wing, a small weapon-a holdout, an easily concealed backup, a tiny bit of treachery expressing the core of Sith mastery-slid into a withered hand and spat a flame-colored blade of its own. When those blades met, it was more than Yoda against Palpatine, more the millennia of Sith against the legions of Jedi; this was the expression of the fundamental conflict of the universe itself.

add to that him being the one big bad Sith appearing in Tenebrous' calculations, put it simply every Author thinks Sidious is better given the narrative intent and the many Sidious Supremacy Quotes, all pre-dating the Plagueis Novel indeed, but nevertheless forming a clear intent from LFL


Which is why I think that points 2 & 3 are a lot more likely overall...

(2) Plagueis is only equal (~/=) to MFV and Sidious and all of Plagueis' growth after 42BBY is fed directly into bettering his discrepancies   

The most likely and most backed proposal...

This proposition comes from Plagueis saying MM requires imposition of solely Pneuma into Midi-chlorians to overpower them, as shown above 
Plagueis indeed lacks sufficient Pneuma until the Galaxy Unbalancing from which boost made him sufficient. Yet Plagueis is admittedly very poor in Aperion...

To elaborate, there are essentially three aspects of the force  

ANIMA - Living Force abilities like Force lightning, Force drain, Force healing 
PNEUMA - willpower or the power of your spirit / essence
APERION - more Cosmic/Unifying Force powers like farsight, teleportation, time manipulation, dark side haze

Here Plagueis defines it 


Plagueis then says he lacks Talent for Aperion 

Plagueis Novel wrote:Still in safekeeping on Aborah were texts and holocrons that recounted the deeds and abilities of Sith Masters who, so it was said and written, had been able to summon wind or rain or fracture the skies with conjured lightning. In their own words or those of their disciples, a few Dark Lords claimed to have had the ability to fly, become invisible, or transport themselves through space and time. But Plagueis had never succeeded in duplicating any of those phenomena. 

From the start Tenebrous had told him that he lacked the talent for Sith sorcery, even though the inability hadn't owed to a deficiency of midi-chlorians. It's an innate gift, the Bith would say when pressed, and one that he had lacked, as well. Sorcery paled in comparison with Bith science, regardless. But Plagueis now understood that Tenebrous had been wrong about sorcery, as he had been wrong about so many things. Yes, the gift was strongest in those who, with scant effort, could allow themselves to be subsumed by the currents of the Force and become conduits for the powers of the dark side. But there was an alternative path to those abilities, and it led from a place where the circle closed on itself and sheer will substituted for selflessness. Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will. If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.

Darth Plagueis wrote:“From the start Tenebrous had told him that he lacked the talent for Sith sorcery, even though the inability hadn’t owed to a deficiency of midi-chlorine. *It’s an innate gift*, the Bith would say when pressed, and one that he had lacked, as well. Sorcery paled in comparison with Bith science, regardless. But Plagueis now understood that Tenebrous had been wrong about so many things. Yes, the gift was stronger in those who, with scant effort, could allow themselves to be subsumed by the currents of the Force and become conduits for the powers of the dark side. But there was an alternative path to those abilities, and it led from a place where the circle closed in itself and sheer will substituted for selflessness. Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn’t master through an effort of will. If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had kicked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or yet to surface.”

And that MM has nothing to do with it



He claims that he lacks a talent in Aperion powers yet can achieve them through increasing his Midi-chlorian count, tailored to the specific areas he is bad in, ags we talked about earlier there are different types of Midi's that are geared towards specific aspects of the force, so Plagueis is focusing all his post unbalancing growth into bettering his areas he is not good in

indeed Plagueis is shown to suck in these areas and then improve in these areas later on 

Tenebrous robs Plagueis of his foresight 

The Tenebrous Way wrote:"This could not be. It could not be contemplated, much less allowed to come to pass. Fury competed with panic as Tenebrous threw his mind at the future, seeking to understand how it was Plagueis could be so complacent, so foolish....
So blind .
The searing truth was driven home by the gathering darkness that clouded his borrowed foresight. Soon all he could see of the future was a hazy smear of shadow.... as the retrovirus he had become infected Plagueis' every cell. The retrovirus he had allowed to sacrifice his ability to gaze forward in time.... and had thus robbed his apprentice of his power to sense the future.
Which would seal his own doom as well.
His single-minded pursuit of eternal life and supreme power had accomplished only this. He would be destroyed by his own triumph."

(Foresight of course being a Aperion Power)

Yet by 32BBY Plagueis is able to have force visions again after increasing his M count in those specific areas 

Darth Plagueis wrote:“Regardless, eight long years later, Plagueis remained convinced that he was on the verge of absolute success. The evidence was in his own increased midi-chlorinated count...”

Plagueis' Force Vision of Vader for example




Plagueis is not having any visions and then has 3 by 32BBY, proof he is increasing his Midi's in the respective necessary areas, and that is what all his growth after the unbalancing is. So the proposal for this one is that he is focusing on brining up the other aspects of the force and the abilities he is not good at and indeed we do see him get better in all these abilities in the proposed time period

(3) Plagueis is more powerful than MFV and Sidious but his power is concealed so to not reveal the Sith and so is being focused purely inwards into the mastery of MM or other discrepancies 


Plagueis never once reveals his full power, he is keeping it concealed so to not expose the Dark Side

Darth Plagueis wrote:Palpatine paced away from Pestage. He opened himself fully to the Force, and was left staggered by an inrush of overwhelming malevolence. He planted his left hand on the desk for support and managed a stuttering inhale. Somewhere close by, the dark side was unspooling.

[...]

“Master, we need to leave at once,” Sidious said. “What I felt, the Jedi may have felt, and they will come.”

[...]

“I’m relieved to learn that I didn’t disappoint you, Master. But the Jedi summoned the police to the Fobosi district moments after we left. The plan is already endangered.”

Color rose in Plagueis’s cheeks. “The Jedi have long known that the dark side has been reawakened and cannot be checked by them. Now they have felt it on their own Coruscant.”

He is constantly noted to be focusing 'inwards' and 'deep' into mastering MM, so that seems to be where all the power is going

Darth Plagueis wrote:His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

Darth Plagueis wrote:he great dark side Lords of the past had doomed themselves to the nether realm through their attempts to conquer death by feeding off the energies of others, rather than by tapping the deepest strata of the Force and learning to speak the language of the midi-chlorians.

usually one is required to 'reach inward' to draw upon the power of the dark side and channel it

Darth Bane: Rule of Two wrote:Bane reached inward to call upon the dark side, drawing it not only from himself but also from the orbalisks fastened to his chest and back

but seeing as Plagueis' power is all concealed, all of this power is being poured directly inward so he is never actually drawing upon or unleashing his true power as he is actively focusing it inwards, thus Plagueis is not unleashing the true power of the Banite line being the culmination of the Rule of Two back and stronger than ever like Sidious is doing, by unleashing the dark side.

Sidious is alluded to being on the cusp of raw power in TPM and need only release it, so it does seem that unleashing ones power plays a big role in Sidious being the big bad

Darth Plagueis wrote:His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn’s first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.

and Plagueis simply... never does this

----

The quote above also seems to imply that Post Boost TPM Sheev ~ ROTS Sheev, so Sidious from the boost, gains the power of ROTS Sidious, however it takes him the time leading up to ROTS slowly taming the power to be able to conduct it all through his body, meaning that we do not have to discard the Sidious growth quotes and implications between TPM and ROTS (or around ROTS), Sidious seems to be on the cusp of power until ROTS when he finally releases his 'full unrestrained potency' vs Mace Windu in the office thus actualizing the full post boost power and unleashing the 'Monster' that is rising 


"unrestrained potency"

"Letting the evil fully manifest itself"

so that is one possibility there.

——

I'd also like to quickly bring up the misconception that Maul is close to Sidious and Plagueis so that it does not stand as a counter to the conclusion here, from previous material a case can be made for Maul being on a level with pre boost TPM Sheev, however as of 2012 the Maul & Sidious dynamic undergoes a strong narrative shift to where they are no longer portrayed as having a TPM Kenobi - Jinn esque relationship (as implied in more outdated works) rather a more Yoda - TPM Kenobi relationship, as of the time of the Plagueis Novel in 2012 Maul is no longer portrayed as a peer to Sidious in any way, but I don't wanna get to in depth with this right here, but just to add, even if Maul was still a peer to Sidious in TPM in 2012 Plagueis would still be massively ahead of both of them due to what I have covered above.

----

So the conclusion here is that Midi-chlorian Manipulation to the level of having power over life and death is based on the combination of power and will, we know this from the implications in the movie and from George and the descriptions in the Plagueis novel, you need only be powerful enough so you can then will it to happen, Plagueis has this level of power. So Plagueis is at least as powerful as Anakin and Sidious at the end of Revenge of the Sith which fits nicely with Lucas saying Plagueis is 'Uber Powerful' when talking on the topic of ROTS Titans, and making it apparent that Sidious had killed Plagueis in his sleep and not conventionally, due to Plagueis being stronger than Sidious at the point of his death, which is all befitting with the Plagueis Novel, which Lucas and LFL was involved heavily on

TheForce.net Interview wrote:Q: How closely did you work with Lucas Licensing on Darth Plagueis? How much did George get involved? What advice did he give you?

“A: George was involved in the early stages. When the book was first proposed, I wrote to him and asked whether there was any reason why Plagueis couldn’t be a non-human, and he wrote back that Plagueis could be a Muun and sent me some artist renderings of the character. From that point on, everything was approved, as they’re saying, “at the highest level.” I worked most closely with George’s right-hand man at Lucas licensing, Howard Roffman. It was a strange way to go about the book, because I kind of had to bypass both Del Rey and the usual editorial staff at Lucasfilm and work directly with Howard over the course of what amounted to about a year of preparation […] that a lot of the stuff came from the very top levels of Lucasfilm. Everything was approved at that high level. I had to make the assumption that Howard was speaking directly with George about a lot of this stuff. I didn’t have any meetings directly with George, but it seemed like a lot of the approval was coming through him to Howard.”

Essential Readers Companion wrote:“Mirroring Plagueis’s deepest aspirations, the novel bears his name was able to stave off premature death. LucasBooks nearly cancelled the book in its earliest development due to sensitivities regarding shinning too direct a spotlight on these shadowy Sith characters. The novel survived, though, as the story underwent careful refinement with direct input from Howard Roffman, president of Lucas Licensing.”

James Luceno Facebook Interview wrote:Chris Banaszek: I know [George Lucas] doesn’t have much – if anything – to do with the EU works….but he does get involved with some of the major stuff, like his approval for Chewie’s death etc. Curious how high up the chain you had to go in regards to the in universe timing of the end of the Plagueis?
Luceno: Chris, as I’ve said in other forums, GL was the one who said that Plagueis should be a Muun, and that Plagueis should have an “accident” that forces him to wear a mask. GL also weighed in on other matters, though mostly through Howard Roffman — then president of LucasArts — with whom I worked most closely.

This is all affirmed at the highest level, with directives from Lucas who mandated that Plagueis be killed in his sleep and even weakened prior to death having an accident which of course Lucas views as a huge hinderance, meaning that Lucas agrees that Plagueis is beyond Sidious and holds him in very hugh regard. and that Sidious' musings about him being > Plagueis are simply incorrect, as Sidious seems to concede on in ROTS multiple times, especially when noting Anakin is potentially > himself 

Revenge of the Sith Novelization - Palpatine: wrote:"He is powerful{Anakin}. Potentially more powerful than even myself."

Yet knows that he is not yet powerful enough for the application of MM (as shown above)

...

After all we have looked at I have no doubt that if George Lucas was asked how powerful is Plagueis he would say = to Anakin and Sidious on Mustafar, and so that is the standpoint made apparent in the highest level of canon, and based on Lucas' quotes should simply override any counter argument... 

But there you have it, Hego Demask II, Darth Plagueis the Wise, is a ROTS Titan 



Behold The Sith Legend, The Master of Life and Death

Well, this proves that many past Sith Lords would be capable of it. They simply were not interested about such things.

Freedon Nadd wrote:Well, this proves that many past Sith Lords would be capable of it. They simply were not interested about such things.

not really, Plagueis is the only one who could cheat death in this way. its not simply an ability, its more just being so powerful you can just have power over life and death

Vaelias wrote:

Freedon Nadd wrote:Well, this proves that many past Sith Lords would be capable of it. They simply were not interested about such things.

not really, Plagueis is the only one who could cheat death in this way. its not simply an ability, its more just being so powerful you can just have power over life and death

You just said that power alone is not enough for midi-chlorian manipulation and that one also has to possess great will power. It is possible for Sith like Ragnos to achieve that.

Freedon Nadd wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

Freedon Nadd wrote:Well, this proves that many past Sith Lords would be capable of it. They simply were not interested about such things.

not really, Plagueis is the only one who could cheat death in this way. its not simply an ability, its more just being so powerful you can just have power over life and death

You just said that power alone is not enough for midi-chlorian manipulation and that one also has to possess great will power. It is  possible for Sith like Ragnos to achieve that.

well yeh its the power that you need, then you just have to learn how to apply your will power, but its specifically the ability of Midi-chlorian Manipulation to cheat death, no one else achieved this, not to mention all those ancient guys are capped by someone who is weaker than the required power threshold, so they will not have been able to achieve this, their methods of cheating death are described as 'lesser' anyways

Vaelias wrote:

Freedon Nadd wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

Freedon Nadd wrote:Well, this proves that many past Sith Lords would be capable of it. They simply were not interested about such things.

not really, Plagueis is the only one who could cheat death in this way. its not simply an ability, its more just being so powerful you can just have power over life and death

You just said that power alone is not enough for midi-chlorian manipulation and that one also has to possess great will power. It is  possible for Sith like Ragnos to achieve that.

well yeh its the power that you need, then you just have to learn how to apply your will power, but its specifically the ability of Midi-chlorian Manipulation to cheat death, no one else achieved this, not to mention all those ancient guys are capped by someone who is weaker than the required power threshold, so they will not have been able to achieve this, their methods of cheating death are described as 'lesser' anyways

Uhm... Sith have always used Force rituals for various tasks.

Besides that; I am pretty sure the act of midi-chlorian manipulation is just that... Manipulating Force cells to do your bidding.

This has already happened before/after.

Krayt achieved this by using the 'Dark Transfer' technique. And then we have Karness Muur, Darth Andeddu, Cade himself.