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The EllimistLevel Five
Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 7:53 am
Who wins?
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Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 9:31 am
Sidious stomps.
Jedi_Jesus
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 9:36 am
HellfireUnit wrote:Sidious stomps.
Nah
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 10:02 am
Jedi_Jesus wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Sidious stomps.
Nah
Yes my man, Canon Vader is fodder
- Jedi_Jesus
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 10:03 am
If canon vader is fodder then boy do I feel bad for canon dookuHellfireUnit wrote:Jedi_Jesus wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Sidious stomps.
Nah
Yes my man, Canon Vader is fodder
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 10:10 am
Jedi_Jesus wrote:If canon vader is fodder then boy do I feel bad for canon dookuHellfireUnit wrote:Jedi_Jesus wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Sidious stomps.
Nah
Yes my man, Canon Vader is fodder
Canon Dooku sucks anyways, sub pirates
The lord of hungerLevel Two
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 10:47 am
on more of a serious note it could go either way leaning vader for now
Gianfi
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 11:16 am
Canon Vader is actually>>>Legends Vader. He is very close to Palpatine and his potential was never diminished after the duel on Mustafar. Legend Vader is pathetic compared to his canon self
TheNuisanceBird
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 8:51 pm
Jokes aside Canon Vader has accolades and statements putting him on Sidious's level if not above it. I mean it depends how literally you take them such as the Fallen Order one but still.
Like the comics has Vader barely off the medical table getting a TK grip on Sidious. Even if Sidious was caught off guard, still...
But yet again he got floored by Ezra and Kanan as well as getting pushed back by Ahsoka who ran from Sidious.
Like the comics has Vader barely off the medical table getting a TK grip on Sidious. Even if Sidious was caught off guard, still...
But yet again he got floored by Ezra and Kanan as well as getting pushed back by Ahsoka who ran from Sidious.
BigMouthPrick
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 9:27 pm
If he catches him off-guard I can absolutely see Vader winning, but it would have to be quick and lethal. On even terms Sidious wins, but it's not a stomp.
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 27th 2020, 10:11 pm
TheNuisanceBird wrote:Jokes aside Canon Vader has accolades and statements putting him on Sidious's level if not above it. I mean it depends how literally you take them such as the Fallen Order one but still.
Like the comics has Vader barely off the medical table getting a TK grip on Sidious. Even if Sidious was caught off guard, still....
It is nothing but a circumstancial feat, a moment of extreme rage and havoc. Sidious was only pushed back and easily break free from his hold and tortured Vader with lightning.
Also, Canon Vader was unable to Force Choke Kirak In'filia with the latter easily being able to break free from it. Vader could only finish him while he was distracted by innocent civillian lives.
Canon Vader with malfunctioning suit proved to be completely useless against Momin and even Chewbacca. Momin stomped him and Vader only defeated him while he was off-guard. Someone as powerful as Sidious can instantly benefit from this disadvantage of Vader.
Canon Vader's only notable achievement are against fodder Jedi and still, he was careless and was given a trouble by those foes.
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 12:46 pm
Canon Vader's accolades are contextual. The FO one is made IU when even Spec Ops Imperial troopers didn't know he was a Sith, so how would Cal, Cere or any other IU character know?
- Caelus Pall
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 2:11 pm
Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 6:18 pm
Caelus Pall wrote:Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
Not for Canon. Canon Vader appeared to become weaker after killing Ben and learning that Luke is his son.
- Caelus Pall
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 7:03 pm
HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
Not for Canon. Canon Vader appeared to become weaker after killing Ben and learning that Luke is his son.
Citation needed.
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 9:39 pm
Caelus Pall wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
Not for Canon. Canon Vader appeared to become weaker after killing Ben and learning that Luke is his son.
Citation needed.
https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I
- Caelus Pall
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 10:15 pm
HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
Not for Canon. Canon Vader appeared to become weaker after killing Ben and learning that Luke is his son.
Citation needed.
https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I
That clip does not back up your claim. Nowhere does anyone state that.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 10:46 pm
Skip to 2:12. Pablo says, and I quote, “this is Vader in his prime. We have to remember how far he’s come from the good person he was...There is zero reason for that part of him to come out until he’s exposed to Luke.”Caelus Pall wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
Not for Canon. Canon Vader appeared to become weaker after killing Ben and learning that Luke is his son.
Citation needed.
https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I
That clip does not back up your claim. Nowhere does anyone state that.
This is corroborated by Filoni seconds later, and also by the latest Vader series, which has Vader being unable to choke Sabé because he’s crippled by flashbacks. That’s a Vader far past his emotional, and thus his combative, prime.
- Caelus Pall
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 28th 2020, 11:21 pm
BoD (away) wrote:Skip to 2:12. Pablo says, and I quote, “this is Vader in his prime. We have to remember how far he’s come from the good person he was...There is zero reason for that part of him to come out until he’s exposed to Luke.”Caelus Pall wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:HellfireUnit wrote:Caelus Pall wrote:Vader's peak is Return of the Jedi and based on that RotS Sidious stomps.
Not for Canon. Canon Vader appeared to become weaker after killing Ben and learning that Luke is his son.
Citation needed.
https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I
That clip does not back up your claim. Nowhere does anyone state that.
This is corroborated by Filoni seconds later, and also by the latest Vader series, which has Vader being unable to choke Sabé because he’s crippled by flashbacks. That’s a Vader far past his emotional, and thus his combative, prime.
Hmm, thanks. I listened to it once and thought it said something else. It's late here in the UK, so forgive me for being hasty with my reply. I probably should have listened to it again in the morning before posting.
My next question then would be how do we set that against what we see in Rebels, where Vader is in his "prime" when he fights Ahsoka - and he is firmly Vader as per Filoni's words - and Ahsoka's fight against Maul, which pits them as near-equals? After all, we have two sources saying Maul would fare as well as Ahsoka did if he were to face Vader. One of them being Filoni himself.
Dave Filoni wrote:“It’s interesting. This is a little bit inside, but Maul wasn’t meant to survive the Malachor episode. There was a lot of thought given to taking him out there because a lot of the Malachor arc, originally, was more about Vader confronting Maul and it was going to be a story about that. It became clear to me as the emotional story developed and we worked on it more that that was just going to be wrong, that if anything happened to Maul it needed to have its proper time and its proper space. That’s how he kind of got a pass and survived to this season.”
Star Wars UK Magazine Volume 7 Issue #4 (2014) wrote:"It's a close call, and these two Sith are well-matched in terms of fighting skiils. But Vader's tactical experience, which he's displayed in everything from construction projects to invasions and space battles, gives him the edge here. Whereas Darth Maul lets anger and arrogance affect his fighting, Vader always seems calm during combat (even a double-edged lightsaber is unlikely to faze him!). However, you get the feeling these two apprentices of Darth Sidious could learn a lot from each other - if only Maul wasn't a goner by the time Vader came along.."
DarthAdi
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 29th 2020, 3:50 am
@caelus pall The second quote is not canon. It was published before 25 april 2014.
- Caelus Pall
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 29th 2020, 7:41 am
DarthAdi wrote:@caelus pall The second quote is not canon. It was published before 25 april 2014.
It was published in April 2014, and is the May 2014 issue: link
- DarthAdi
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 29th 2020, 9:10 am
@Caelus pall
It was published on the 3rd of April 2014 (so a few weeks before the split). http://www.swbooks.co.uk/archive/release/2014.htm#apr
It was published on the 3rd of April 2014 (so a few weeks before the split). http://www.swbooks.co.uk/archive/release/2014.htm#apr
- Caelus Pall
Re: Canon: Peak Suited Vader vs. RotS Sidious
July 29th 2020, 9:57 am
DarthAdi wrote:@Caelus pall
It was published on the 3rd of April 2014 (so a few weeks before the split). http://www.swbooks.co.uk/archive/release/2014.htm#apr
Ooh, thanks for the link. That's very useful.
Eh, even if we discount the second quote, we still have the first one from Filoni, which is a better source anyway as it is specifically about Rebels Maul.
But really, it comes down to a simple question: if we replace Ahsoka with Sidious, how would the fight go? This is Vader's "prime" after all, and if he cannot easily penetrate Ahsoka's guard in a lightsaber duel he has no chance against Sidious.
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