SS - Dooku (DarthAnt66) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

The debate follows all formal and informal policies of Lucas Licensing as of September 2012, including the internal continuity rankings of the Holocron. The rules include, but are not limited to, specific parts of the following: http://www.st-v-sw.net/CanonWars/SWCanonquotes2.html#Licensing. In addition:

• Feats take precedent over directly contradicted statements. A feat indisputably showing X is greater than Y overrides a statement stating Y is greater than X.
  
• Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case will be made within the debate itself.
  
• All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.
  

Each side will have a maximum of four posts. The first post per side, excluding response or sourcing quotes, has a maximum of 10,000 characters--the second 15,000, the third 12,500, and a 2,500 finisher. The second side's third post and the finishers cannot introduce original arguments. Each debater has two weeks to respond.

TAEP, hopefully, this kicks off.

TAEP

YES. fucking hell, finally. Do good both of yall this cant be trash. Dont ruin these two kings. PS nice poster thingy whatever the fuck u call it, ant.

TAEP, though I already have my suspicions.

Oh boy. This is gonna be fun.

TAEP.

This will be great, can't wait

TAEP

Good debate, my vote goes to @DarthAnt66.

Hmm, this could be an extremely interesting debate if anything comes of it.

TAEP, just in case.

NotAA3 wrote:Good debate, my vote goes to @DarthAnt66.

My penis is so small it protrudes inward into my body.

That is probably true Big Brother

Still better than getting your cape pulled by a common thug.

Just to make sure everyone knows, this is postponed until after Ant and Az finish their project.

Kinda looking forward to this lol

That would imply either candidate is gonna post... which doesn't seem to be the case.

Note: This argument will use no form of supremacy quotes or any other cross-era shenanigans. This will be purely accolades and feats.

1.The Great Dark Lords of the Past

Naga Sadow at some point prior to his six centuries of suspended animation was more powerful than Darth Tenebrous and Darth Plagueis as of 67BBY:

Darth Plagueis wrote:While midi-chlorians appeared to resist manipulation of a sort that might imperil the balance of the Force, they remained passive, even compliant, in the case of a weak-willed being manipulated by one who was strong in the Force. Perhaps that explained why it was often easier to call on the Force to heal someone other than oneself. Extending life, then, could hinge on something as simple as being able to induce midi-chlorians to create new cells; to subdivide at will, increasing their numbers into the tens of thousands to heal or replace damaged, aging, or metastatic cells. Midi-chlorians had to be compelled to serve the needs of the body; to bestow strength when needed; to overcome physical insult, or prevent cells from reaching senescence.

If one accepted the tales handed down in accounts and holocrons, the ancient Sith had known how to accomplish this. But had Sith like Naga Sadow and Exar Kun genuinely been more powerful, or had they benefited from the fact that the dark side had been more prominent in those bygone eras? Some commentators claimed that the ability to survive death had been limited to those with a talent for sorcery and alchemy, and that the use of such practices actually predated the arrival of the Dark Jedi exiles on Korriban. But sorcery had been employed less to extend life than to create illusions, fashion beasts, and resurrect the dead. Powerful adepts were said to have been able to saturate the atmosphere of planets with dark side energy, compel stars to explode, or induce paralysis in crowds, as Exar Kun apparently did to select members of the Republic Senate. Other adepts used sorcery merely as a means to better understand ancient Sith spells and sigils.

What is important to note is that the gap in power Plageuis asserts isn't just small, it's enormous, based off of what Plagueis himself admits:

Darth Plagueis wrote:According to his Sith education, since Captain Lah and the others had been in some sense dead from the moment Plagueis's gaze had alighted on the freighter, it followed that the midi-chlorians that resided in alleged symbiosis with them must have been preparing to be subsumed into the reservoir of life energy that was the Force long before Plagueis had stowed away. His attempts to save them-to prolong that state of symbiosis-were comparable to using a sponge to dam a raging river. And yet the Sith Lords of old were said to have been able to draw on the energies released during death to extend their own lives, as well as the lives of others. Unfortunately, much like the technique of essence transfer, that ancient knowledge had been lost.

[Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Naga Sadow must have been capable of this prior to placing himself in stasis, as it is known that even in-universe, with post-purge knowledge, drain wasn't what allowed him to do so:

New Essential Chronology wrote:"Sadow used Sith technology and sorcery to cocoon himself in a suspended animation chamber."

Naga Sadow spends the next six centuries in stasis, fueled by the dark side, thus getting continuously stronger:

Rule of Two wrote:Sadow's power had been so great, it had allowed him to survive for six centuries, fueled by the energies of the dark side.

The Dark Legacy of Yavin Four Part I Codex Entry wrote:Sadow was even powerful enough to stave off the inevitable. He placed himself in a near-death slumber, which he remained in for hundreds of years, waiting until someone would come to take his place….

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:Here on YAVIN 4, Sadow drew on Sith technology and sorcery to cocoon himself in suspended animation until awakened at a future Golden Age.

[4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Freedon Nadd arrives and surpasses Naga Sadow entirely:

The Dark Legacy of Yavin Four Part III Codex Entry wrote:And just as Nadd killed his Lord Sadow, Kun destroyed Nadd’s spirit here on Yavin 4.

The Official Fact File 90 wrote:Eventually, the apprentice [Freedon Nadd] became far more powerful than the teacher [Naga Sadow]...

[4400BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Freedon Nadd then spent a century getting more powerful:



[4300BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Darth Sidious notes that a spirit in normal circumstances retains the power it had in life:

Darth Sidious, Jedi VS. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force wrote:"Having survived the destruction of the second Death Star as a ghostly manifestation, I can assure you that it is a most wearisome state to be in. It is not enough to retain one’s powers beyond death, for a noncorporeal avatar can only do so much."

Thus Freedon Nadd as a spirit was just as powerful as he was in his prime. This is important, because...



Exar Kun surpasses Freedon Nadd on Yavin Four, forcibly absorbing his spiritual essence to become super powerful:

Exar Kun, Galactic Files wrote:This leads him to the tomb of a long-deceased Dark Lord named Freedon Nadd, a spirit who is destroyed by Kun after all of his magical knowledge is absorbed. Now super-powerful,

Exar Kun is further stated to have outright replaced Freedon Nadd:

Vodo-Siosk Baas to Nomi Sunrider, Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith Audio Drama wrote:"I sense a disturbance in the Force. As if one great power has fallen, and another has risen in its place."

The Official Star Wars Fact File 107 wrote:During the Great Sith War, a Jedi called Exar Kun was turned to the dark side of the Force by the spirit of Freedon Nadd. Nadd's teachings were too thorough, though, and Kun became so powerful that he destroyed Nadd's spirit forever.

Exar Kun, immediately after, is both becoming more powerful and becomes more powerful, in numerous sources:

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:Exar Kun's power is in the ascendance.

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:Ulic unleashes a force of unruly fury at the death of Master Arca, avenging the death by defeating Keto, and taking the Krath throne by the side of Aleema. Meanwhile on Yavin 4, a more powerful EXAR KUN rests in his meditation chamber

[Yavin IV!Exar Kun > 4300BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Exar Kun travels to Cinnagar to engage Ulic Qel-Droma, this duel ends when the apparition of Marka Ragnos commands it to. Ragnos then bestows Exar Kun, and Ulic, with more power than Aleema Keto had ever gained through Sith magic:




Aleema Keto had been endowed with power from Nadd, making her basically a stronger Ommin:



[Dark Lord Exar Kun >> Yavin IV!Exar Kun > 4300BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma disappear and get a statement of gaining 'tremendous powers' until Coruscant:



Exar Kun gains the Dark Holocron, which is stated to make him more powerful between obtaining it from Odan-Urr and destroying it when he returns to Yavin IV and unleashes the spirits within:



[GSW Exar Kun > Dark Lord Exar Kun >> Yavin IV!Exar Kun > 4300BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Eventually Exar Kun attacks Ossus again, this time he meets his match in an Ossus-amped Ood Bnar:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith #6 wrote:Ood resists Kun's attempts to steal the lightsabers by undergoing a final metamorphosis, plunging roots into the ground and driving Kun back with a blast of power drawn from the depths of Ossus.

Exar Kun then returns to Yavin IV and enacts a ritual, wherein he drains thousands of Massassi:



All of these Massassi are strong in the dark-side of the Force:

Naga Sadow, Star Wars Databank wrote:Using his Sith magic and alchemy, Sadow created the mutated Massassi warriors from descendents of his Sith crew. These Massassi guarded the new Sith temples they erected. As Sadow passed on, the Massassi continued, developing into a proud tribal culture that used the dark side of the Force to augment their archaic weapons.

Star Wars Databank wrote:Having fled the Great Hyperspace War, the Sith Lord Naga Sadow hid in the jungles of Yavin 4 alongside mutated Sith warriors called the Massassi. Sith alchemical experimentations further mutated the Massassi, turning them into dark side-wielding savages.

Timeline 7: Peace for the Republic wrote:The Massassi originated as a Sith sub-species, forming the backbone of the earliest Sith armies. But Naga Sadow subjected his Massassi followers to heinous experiments – turning them into dark Force-wielding monsters.

The Dark Legacy of Yavin Four Part I Codex Entry wrote:Sadow was a gifted alchemist who turned his Massassi followers into powerful, violent animals who worshipped and served Sadow.

The Dark Legacy of Yavin Four Part III Codex Entry wrote:These notable deaths likely served to further imbue the moon’s temples with dark power, further fueling the barbaric Massassi–as well as the succession of Dark Lords who would later reside here.

The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Exar Kun was more than happy to comply. He took his next step: infusing his new warrior with the dark side using some of his own physical makeup as a template. When Zythmnr readily took to the treatment-and even showed potential with Force skills-Kun chose several more "volunteers" to continue his work. Before long, he had several dozen living weapons that exuded the raw power and energy of the dark side. Upon feeling their power firsthand, the Jedi called them "abominations."

He is now far more powerful than any Jedi of the time, including Ood Bnar:

The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.

[Prime Exar Kun >>>> GSW Exar Kun > Dark Lord Exar Kun >> Yavin IV!Exar Kun >> 4300BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Freedon Nadd >> 4400BBY Naga Sadow >> 5000BBY Naga Sadow >> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Beyond this:

Naga Sadow enormously amplified by either the Corsair or his Meditation Sphere, still didn't summon as much power as was called upon by the Sorceress conducting the Ambria ritual:



[Obelisk-amped Sorceress > Corsair/Meditation Sphere-amped Sadow >>>>> Naga Sadow >>> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

The hundreds of Sith killed in this event by the time Thon arrived, had become even worse, as they threatened to consume the entire sector Ambria was in, and he was summoned by the will of the Force itself to stop them:






[Master Thon >> Spirits of Ambria > Obelisk-amped Sorceress > Corsair/Meditation Sphere-amped Sadow >>>>> Naga Sadow >>> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Odan-Urr is the Head of the Jedi Assembly and is stated to be one of the two most powerful Masters of his era:





[Master Odan-Urr > Master Thon >> Spirits of Ambria > Obelisk-amped Sorceress > Corsair/Meditation Sphere-amped Sadow >>>>> Naga Sadow >>> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

Exar Kun outright 'overwhelmed and destroyed' Odan-Urr:

Behind the Magic wrote:During his attempt to steal the ancient Sith Holocron housed at the Great Jedi Library, Kun ambushed Odan-Urr, using his vile powers to overwhelm and destroy the Jedi Master.

[Exar Kun >> Master Odan-Urr > Master Thon >> Spirits of Ambria > Obelisk-amped Sorceress > Corsair/Meditation Sphere-amped Sadow >>>>> Naga Sadow >>> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

This is when Exar gains the Dark Holocron, thus the scaling above applies:

[Prime Exar Kun >>>> GSW Exar Kun > Dark Lord Exar Kun >> Master Odan-Urr > Master Thon >> Spirits of Ambria > Obelisk-amped Sorceress > Corsair/Meditation Sphere-amped Sadow >>>>> Naga Sadow >>> 67BBY Darth Plagueis]

2.The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise

Plagueis in his prime, with the aforementioned still in mind, then ponders whether or not a Sith of equal power had preceded him based on what powers he had:

Darth Plagueis wrote:Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will. If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.

This is convenient given that Exar Kun's knowledge fits perfectly within his grounds for exemption:

The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:"The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun, it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin IV or elsewhere."

Exar Kun, Jedi Academy Trilogy Vol.2: Dark Apprenticd wrote:"I could show you techniques that were lost thousands of years ago, secret rites and hidden doorways to power that no weak Jedi Master like Skywalker dares to touch."

And given that Luke Skywalker, who by this point held the sum total knowledge of Darth Vader:

Dark Empire Endnotes wrote:Luke is, perhaps, learning more about the Dark Side than he wants to know. The more the Emperor reveals, the more Luke is repulsed. The sheer depravity of the man would shake the soul of the strongest Jedi.

But Luke must continually remind himself of his vow to conquer the Dark Side from within.

Luke's father understood these secrets, these powers, and willingly used them to crush and enslave multitudes of Galactic citizens.

--

Satisfied that his "young apprentice" has crossed the threshold from which there is no returning, the Emperor unveils his teaching, and Luke is given the knowledge that was bestowed on his father before him!

Is entirely defenseless against the techniques displayed by Exar Kun and Kyp Durron:

Jedi Academy Trilogy Vol.2: Dark Apprentice wrote:He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic.

Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.

Yet said knowledge bestowed amounts to:

Darth Sidious, Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark-Side wrote:"Darth Bane's Rule of Two was a keystone of the Sith Order for centuries. The Battle of Ruusan, nearly a millenium ago, would have ended the Sith Order had Darth Bane not reconstituted it as a diarchy operating from the shadows. His writings became a part of the Sith Archives passed down from master to apprentice for generations."

[...]

"Under the tutelage of Darth Plagueis I inherited the Sith Archives - more than a thousand years' worth of teachings passed in secret from master to apprentice."

Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Novelisation) wrote:The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day.

Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader wrote:Black armorweave and feats of strength weren't the only things that distinguished Darth Vader from Anakin Skywalker. Where Anakin had had limited access to the Jedi Temple data room, Vader–even light-years from Coruscant–could peruse any data he wished, including archival records, ancient texts, and holocrons fashioned by past Masters.

Thus Exar Kun not only meets these requirements, he completely surpasses them.

Darth Plagueis in his prime is a legitimate equal for post-boost TPM Darth Sidious:

Darth Plagueis wrote:Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.

And now dead.

Or was he?

Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning?

Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise-for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?

If he hadn't been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him.

Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace-a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.

Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis's already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.

Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.

This fear can't be mistaken as to be based on whether or not Plagueis has achieved immortality or knows of other tricks because Sheev has this in the bag:

Darth Sidious, Star Wars: Darth Plagueis wrote:"I could save you, of course. Return you from the brink, as you did Venamis. I could retask your body to repair the damage already done to your lungs, your hearts, your aged brain. But I'll do no such thing. The idea here is not to drag you back at the last moment, but to bring you to death's door and shove you through to the other side."

Indeed, just two years prior, Sidious views Plagueis as:

Darth Plagueis wrote:Seen through the Force, he was a nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy. If the Maladian attack had weakened him physically, it had also helped to shape his etheric body into a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side. Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he—and presumably his human apprentice—might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

For added context, James Luceno entirely intended for Plagueis to be a near equal of Sidious as of the Muun's death:

James Luceno, Facebook Q&A wrote:Q: Do you feel that, had it come to a contest of lightsabers or Force powers, Sidious would have prevailed anyway?

A: If it had come to a duel, I think Plagueis may have found a way to undermine his apprentice.

TPM Darth Sidious after the boost had reached the full potential of his physical body and though he obviously continued to grow in power, Sidious could not use more power than those physical limits without actively causing his body to degrade rapidly:

Darth Plagueis wrote:At the quake's epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn't constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification-a gravitic shift.

A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.

A comparison, as so eloquently pointed out by Meatpants, like much of this part of my argument:

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:The shuddering stopped. Luke continued to maintain both illusions, the Force pouring through him like fire, burning more fiercely every moment. He was drawing more energy than his body was conditioned to endure, literally burning himself up from the inside. It was not really a dark side act—to a modern Jedi, the dark side was more a matter of intent than deed—but it felt that way to him. According to Mara, this was what happened to Palpatine, and Luke believed her. He could feel himself aging—his cells weakening, the membranes growing thin and the cytoplasm simmering, the nuclei coming apart.

Dark Nest I: The Joiner King wrote:“Feeling in danger of doing just that, Luke started to rise—then caught a glimpse of himself in the mirrored section of the canopy. His face was puffy and wrinkled, his skin sallow and dry, his eyes sunken and baggy and rimmed in red. He was starting to look like Palpatine.”

Thus Darth Sidious is operating at the maximum strength of his body as it is in The Phantom Menace during the  duel in the Chancellor's Office, equating Vaapad-amplified Mace Windu, up until he ramps it up and overpowers the superconducting loop but exceeding the physical limits of his body. Instantly degrading from the power:

Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Novelisation) wrote:Lighting blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him.

Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him.

And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified.

He fed the power with his pain.

[....]

Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."

"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin-! Please, Anaaahhh-"

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me-"

Unleashing his power confirmed to be just as much a reason for his permanent deformities and physical degradation as the lightning reflection:


- Star Wars Chronicles: Prequels

So Darth Sidious's physical power limits as reached by The Phantom Menace are already capable of equating Mace Windu as of Revenge of the Sith who is empowered by Vaapad. Mace Windu is one of only three beings capable of fighting Darth Sidious per George Lucas, and Count Dooku is none of them:

Conclusions:

1.Exar Kun scales absurdly over 67BBY Darth Plagueis. My argument requires only that Exar Kun is an equal for prime Darth Plagueis, nevermind the possibility of surpassing Plagueis, which Plagueis himself notes the possibility of should the proper prerequisites be met.
2.Darth Plagueis is equal to post-boost TPM Sidious whose physical limitations are now met, which means he is operating at this power level constantly and suffers severely when he uses more power than this limit. Which we can see in battle.
3.This physical limit is still enough to equate Office Mace Windu operating at a level far beyond his base abilities.
4.Mace Windu is > Count Dooku per word of God and a plethora of other reasons.

Word count is well below ten thousand without quotes.

How do I tag on mobile? Lol.

good post.

very well made post guess finally the ss is beginning

Very good.

Very nice. Though I shouldve actually scanned that book instead of used phone pictures lol

Impressive work and post.

interresting work

Could be looking forward to this but unfortunately DarthAnt66 chickened out and conceded inferiority to Lady Kulvax.

Good post. I'll get back to you by the end of January.