Darth Revan vs Darth Vader (ROTJ)

SithSauce wrote:@HellfireUnit I appreciate the compliment

No problem, gotta respect the honest work and effort anyways.

Upon reading much of the stuff regarding TFU and G-Canon sources, I just don't see Vader to be as skilled as I used to believe. I mean even Tenenial Djo is better than Vader in telekinesis, something he is most proficient at. 

This is from Luke's perspective, who's only seen Vader use TK once, and it was when he was holding back:



No doubt it's more impressive than this, but Vader wasn't nearly going all out in TK here. Djo, on the other hand, was. Even two months post Mustafar Vader (before his massive growth bursts) was effortlessly replicating Djo's feat, and honestly it was to a higher level, whereby he was ripping apart the planks and throwing them with such speed, accuracy and control that it was akin to a "storm":


Shryne was steeling himself for a lunging attack when, abruptly, Vader halted and withdrew the blade into the lightsaber’s hilt. Before Shryne could begin to make sense of it, he heard a creaking sound from below, and something flew at him from one of the ramps. Only a last-instant turn of his sword kept the object from striking him in the head. It was a plank—ripped from a ramp they had taken to the bridge. Shryne gazed in awe at unreadable Vader, then began to race toward him, blade held high over his right shoulder. 


He didn’t make half the distance when a storm of similar planks and lengths of handrail came whirling at him. Vader was using his dark side abilities to dismantle the ramps! Surrendering to the guidance of the Force, Shryne swung his lightsaber in a flurry of deflecting maneuvers—side-to-side, overhead, low down, behind his back—but the floorboards were coming in larger and larger pieces, from all directions, and faster than he could parry them. The butt end of a board struck him on the outer left thigh. The face of a wide plank slammed him across the shoulders. Wooden pegs flew at his face; others speared into his arms. Then a short support post hit him squarely in the forehead, knocking the wind out of him and dropping him to his knees. Blood running into his eyes, he fought to remain conscious, extending the lightsaber in one shaking hand while clamping the other on the bridge’s handrail. Five meters away Vader stood, his hands crossed in front of him, lightsaber hanging on his belt. Shryne tried to keep him in focus. Another board, whirling end-over-end, came out of nowhere, hitting him in the kidneys. Reflexively the hand that was grasping the railing went to the small of his back, and he lost balance. Trying but failing to catch himself, he fell through space. Give in the wooden floor saved his life, but at the expense of all the bones in his left arm and shoulder. 


Luke accurately differentiates between power and mastery/control, claiming Vader << Djo in applications of TK (based on one showing, which just adds further evidence to the idea that Vader was massively holding back and could have quite quickly overwhelmed ESB Luke with the Force) but that Vader is >>> him as of ROTJ. 

 I just don't think Vader is above Luke as of ROTJ and yet ROTJ Luke actually being impressive. 

Not going to comment on this for obvious reasons.

Pre-ANH Vader is already weak

Um, weak? 

and the growth seems very unquatifiable to me at the moment. 

This is a bit vague. What growth period are we discussing?

Vader is more skilled in sabers in my opinion but I can't really say his limitations will be enough to overcome Revan. In Force, he just seems to be completely outclassed in my opinion.

I disagree completely. Vader's TK and saber feats should easily be enough to compete with this iteration of Revan, who's <<<<<<< his SoR iteration.

Seturna wrote:Yeah, stop this vader lowballing, not like any other character gets lowballed on the forum.

No offense but every post I see you on you always post a sarcastic remark, is this your intention?

@Hellfireunit and just to add on a bit to what BOD said. The author of Courtship of Princess Leia acknowledges that Vader never went all out against Luke in both their duels and was only "pulling punches". By extension Lucas also approved of this idea.

We went through George Lucas and he signed off on each point. When he got done, he wrote me a little note that said, “Great job, I can’t wait to see it!” It was that easy to get through the approval process. Of course, once you write the story, they read to make sure you wrote what you said you would, and it’s up to their standards. Really, it was a painless process that was pretty much all of my creation and I just felt lucky and grateful George Lucas signed off on it!

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But it is true. That’s the one thing I got hit with. You can’t judge fan reaction to a certain degree. I did get a fan letter from George Lucas! 

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I thought a really interesting implication in TCOPL was that Luke realized that Darth Vader and Palpatine never sought to kill him, facing the full brunt of the dark side when the Nightsisters attack and pretty much feeling completely helpless.

The “contagonist”, which is what Darth Vader is called, there’s a person who works for an evil power, a dark lord who has his or her own agenda. It seemed obvious to me that Darth Vader looked at turning Luke very early on. Luke had never felt the full force of what the dark side is, at least in episodes 5 and 6. He was pulling his punches! That seemed pretty obvious to me. The idea that, “Gosh, somebody who doesn’t care for me at all who is with the dark side is trying to destroy me!” just seems sort of a logical next step in Luke’s character arc.



So from Luke's own personal perspective it makes sense that Tenenial Djo's TK was greater than Vader's as she went all out trying to kill Luke while Vader was only pulling punches.

SithSauce wrote:

Seturna wrote:Yeah, stop this vader lowballing, not like any other character gets lowballed on the forum.

No offense but every post I see you on you always post a sarcastic remark, is this your intention?

In regards to Vader threads, yes