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Jedi_Jesus
Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 2nd 2020, 11:15 am
We see A projection of Lukes power in TLJ casually dodge all of kylos slashes and blitz attempts. Is there any actual evidence hes just not ridiculously powerful and can just outpace his opponents?
SeturnaLevel One
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 2nd 2020, 11:25 am
No.
DarthAdi
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 2nd 2020, 12:00 pm
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 2nd 2020, 12:42 pm
Rohirrim
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 2nd 2020, 1:20 pm
How good one is with a lightsaber highly correlates to Force power. It is no coincidence that all the top duelists (Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Vader...) are also the most powerful Force users. That's not to say that greater power always means greater swordsmanship (after all, characters do have different natural strengths and weaknesses), but if you rank most known characters by their power and by their proficiency with a lightsaber, the two lists would be very similar. Moreover, think of how Kanan went from getting clowned by the Grand Inquisitor to soundly defeat him just by letting go of his fears; you'll realize the extent to which Force power/attunement can impact a lightsaber fight, regardless of pure technical skills.
Considering that Kylo Ren received extensive training, and that he is stated to be formidably skilled with a lightsaber "much like" Anakin and Luke (as per the quote @DarthAdi presented), I find it unlikely that there is a large disproportion between his shown power and his dueling ability. Until such disproportion is sufficiently substantiated, I'd personally put him up there with the likes of ROTS Anakin and ROTJ Luke in a combative sense.
Considering that Kylo Ren received extensive training, and that he is stated to be formidably skilled with a lightsaber "much like" Anakin and Luke (as per the quote @DarthAdi presented), I find it unlikely that there is a large disproportion between his shown power and his dueling ability. Until such disproportion is sufficiently substantiated, I'd personally put him up there with the likes of ROTS Anakin and ROTJ Luke in a combative sense.
Nute_ChethrayModerator
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 2nd 2020, 5:48 pm
StarWars.com wrote wrote:"Kylo Ren has a lifetime of training and practice, is one of the most powerful combatants in the history of Star Wars, and is the leader of the Knights of Ren."
TheNuisanceBird
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 3rd 2020, 3:59 pm
He's been said to be competent but we hear more about it than we see. Realistically in universe he should at the very least be average Knight level.
However going by choreography onscreen he nor Rey aren't even better than the girl I sparred with the other day who got two-shotted Drallig style. Their choreography's really bad. Going by the films the most impressive display visually speaking is during ROS where he suddenly gains a choreography boost and trashes the Knights of Ren although it depends how you scale them.
Of course as the first on screen emo character he starts self harming halfway through his first on screen lightsaber fight.
Overall I'm more impressed with his Force showings than anything else. Even his feat of him smashing the wall in the elevator during TLJ is more impressive as a super human feat of strength.
However going by choreography onscreen he nor Rey aren't even better than the girl I sparred with the other day who got two-shotted Drallig style. Their choreography's really bad. Going by the films the most impressive display visually speaking is during ROS where he suddenly gains a choreography boost and trashes the Knights of Ren although it depends how you scale them.
Of course as the first on screen emo character he starts self harming halfway through his first on screen lightsaber fight.
Overall I'm more impressed with his Force showings than anything else. Even his feat of him smashing the wall in the elevator during TLJ is more impressive as a super human feat of strength.
King JokerLevel One
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 3rd 2020, 5:03 pm
TheNuisanceBird wrote:He's been said to be competent but we hear more about it than we see. Realistically in universe he should at the very least be average Knight level.
However going by choreography onscreen he nor Rey aren't even better than the girl I sparred with the other day who got two-shotted Drallig style. Their choreography's really bad. Going by the films the most impressive display visually speaking is during ROS where he suddenly gains a choreography boost and trashes the Knights of Ren although it depends how you scale them.
Of course as the first on screen emo character he starts self harming halfway through his first on screen lightsaber fight.
Overall I'm more impressed with his Force showings than anything else. Even his feat of him smashing the wall in the elevator during TLJ is more impressive as a super human feat of strength.
ZenwolfLevel One
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 3rd 2020, 9:43 pm
TheNuisanceBird wrote:He's been said to be competent but we hear more about it than we see. Realistically in universe he should at the very least be average Knight level.
It's pretty much this yeah..
Ok he defeated the Knights of Ren. ....So what? What have they done exactly in combat other than get trashed by Luke and having a quote of them potentially being Inquisitors(even then, they too vary so what does that quote even matter?).
Ok he defeated Praetorian Guards. Again....so? What have they done other than fight Kylo and Rey?
Oh he defeated 3 Jedi who he trained with under Luke? Ignoring the fact, that it's blatantly shown that all 3 of them differed vastly and not all of them were combat oriented other than 1. ....What could they do?
Ok he fought these opponents....but they are basically a wall, they themselves are stopped they have only fought Kylo.
Let's put it another way here.
Character A fights against 10 guys, these guys are noted before the fight starts, that they are deadly fighters. Character A whoops them all.
Character B fights against 10 guys, also noted before the fight starts that they are deadly fighters. However, before the fight starts, it shows the 10 guys wrecking multiple other well trained fighters, utilizing grappling, pressure points, throws and generally showcasing their skill. Character B takes them all down in a great fight.
Now look at these two and tell me, which is better in a comparison. Character B, because his opponents didn't stop and all they have going for them is an accolade.
Accolades help sure, but they aren't the end all be all.
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 10:47 am
King Joker wrote:
What?
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 10:48 am
Zenwolf wrote:Ok he defeated the Knights of Ren. ....So what? What have they done exactly in combat other than get trashed by Luke and having a quote of them potentially being Inquisitors(even then, they too vary so what does that quote even matter?).
Was that referring to them being Inquisitor level or being former members?
Galan007
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 10:59 am
TheNuisanceBird wrote:Zenwolf wrote:Ok he defeated the Knights of Ren. ....So what? What have they done exactly in combat other than get trashed by Luke and having a quote of them potentially being Inquisitors(even then, they too vary so what does that quote even matter?).
Was that referring to them being Inquisitor level or being former members?
- Nute_ChethrayModerator
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 11:23 am
@Zenwolf at the start of "The Rise Of Kylo Ren" we see the knights defeating a large force of CorSec, and two of them did beat Chewbacca. But yeah I'm disapointed at lack of feats nonetheless
- ZenwolfLevel One
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 12:45 pm
Nute_Chethray wrote:@Zenwolf at the start of "The Rise Of Kylo Ren" we see the knights defeating a large force of CorSec, and two of them did beat Chewbacca. But yeah I'm disapointed at lack of feats nonetheless
Did they really beat Chewbacca or is that just an assumption? Just as well they could have surprised him and taken him down in a method that wasn't direct combat.
Also it was Sector Security, not CorSec.
- Nute_ChethrayModerator
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 12:53 pm
Assumption, but seems to be the intent. Sneaking up on a wookiee like chewbacca still would be a solid performance.Zenwolf wrote:Nute_Chethray wrote:@Zenwolf at the start of "The Rise Of Kylo Ren" we see the knights defeating a large force of CorSec, and two of them did beat Chewbacca. But yeah I'm disapointed at lack of feats nonetheless
Did they really beat Chewbacca or is that just an assumption? Just as well they could have surprised him and taken him down in a method that wasn't direct combat.
Also it was Sector Security, not CorSec.
Fair, but doesn't make much of a difference
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 4th 2020, 6:06 pm
Or since there were a bunch of them Chewbacca could've been surrounded and surrendered.
xmysticgohanx
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 6th 2020, 7:08 pm
I have Ren and Rey in the same level as Dooku, slightly superior to him
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 15th 2020, 10:09 am
In terms of sabers or overall?
I have a hard time seeing Rey > Dooku in sabers.
I have a hard time seeing Rey > Dooku in sabers.
- xmysticgohanx
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 19th 2020, 8:53 pm
Overall
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 20th 2020, 7:02 pm
I mean given the stupid sequel scaling I guess you could argue that they're overall more powerful but in terms of sabers I don't see how either of them Rey especially are even close to Dooku.
Even if you put canon Dooku in their shows he'd take apart the throne room guards and the Knights of Ren.
Even if you put canon Dooku in their shows he'd take apart the throne room guards and the Knights of Ren.
Gianfi
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 25th 2020, 10:21 am
Not much tbh if we go by feats
The Adventurous JediLevel Seven
Re: Is there any proof that Kylo ren has actual skill with a lightsaber?
May 25th 2020, 10:52 am
Let me reverse the question: is there any proof he doesn't?
Because this:
...isn't proof. We have no clue how the projection functions, and even if we generously assume it fights like how Luke normally would, that's a feat for Luke - not an anti-feat for Kylo.
Anyway, as far as I can tell, there isn't a lot we can do to compare Kylo (in technical skill) to characters from other eras, but I don't think the default assumption should be that he's not skilled relative to them (unless evidence for such a claim is provided).
Because this:
We see A projection of Lukes power in TLJ casually dodge all of kylos slashes and blitz attempts.
...isn't proof. We have no clue how the projection functions, and even if we generously assume it fights like how Luke normally would, that's a feat for Luke - not an anti-feat for Kylo.
Anyway, as far as I can tell, there isn't a lot we can do to compare Kylo (in technical skill) to characters from other eras, but I don't think the default assumption should be that he's not skilled relative to them (unless evidence for such a claim is provided).
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