Greatest Lightsaber Duelists

May 23rd 2019, 11:07 pm

Idk give me whatever you want (your top 5, top 10, top 20, top 500, etc)

-aug and physical strikes that are incorporated into dueling are valid

May 23rd 2019, 11:12 pm

Top ten living duelists as of TPM:

1. Yoda
2. Sidious
3. Plagueis
4. Windu

-the above bracket is extremely close, and interchangeable to an extent

5. Maul
6. Qui-Gon Jinn
7. Yaddle
8. Ki-Adi Mundi

- 9 and 10 would probably go to senior council members.

May 23rd 2019, 11:16 pm

1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

May 23rd 2019, 11:27 pm

Ignore that comment. I didn't realize that you were ranking as of TPM @Meatpants My b

May 23rd 2019, 11:29 pm

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

May 23rd 2019, 11:30 pm

Tier 1:
Luke Skywalker, Darth Krayt, Darth Sidious

Tier 2:
Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi

Tier 3:
Meetra Surik, The Hero of Tython, The Empire's Wrath, Darth Malgus, Darth Marr, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaina Solo Fel, Darth Caedus, Darth Bane, Darth Vader

There's more I could slot in there, but you get the idea.

May 23rd 2019, 11:32 pm

SithArchaeologist wrote:Tier 1:
Luke Skywalker, Darth Krayt, Darth Sidious

Tier 2:
Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi

Tier 3:
Meetra Surik, The Hero of Tython, The Empire's Wrath, Darth Malgus, Darth Marr, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaina Solo Fel, Darth Caedus, Darth Bane, Darth Vader

There's more I could slot in there, but you get the idea.

What's Marr ever done with a blade that would make you put him in the same tier as Vader, Caedus, etc

May 23rd 2019, 11:41 pm

God Tier:
KFV.

Tier 1:
Darth Sidious, Luke Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker, Master Yoda.

Tier 1.5:
Count Dooku.

Tier 2:
Asajj Ventress, Darth Maul, General Grievous.

Trash Tier:
Mace Windu, Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, SWTOR.

May 23rd 2019, 11:43 pm

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

SithArchaeologist wrote:Tier 1:
Luke Skywalker, Darth Krayt, Darth Sidious

Tier 2:
Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi

Tier 3:
Meetra Surik, The Hero of Tython, The Empire's Wrath, Darth Malgus, Darth Marr, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaina Solo Fel, Darth Caedus, Darth Bane, Darth Vader

There's more I could slot in there, but you get the idea.

What's Marr ever done with a blade that would make you put him in the same tier as Vader, Caedus, etc

He's Malgus' equal.

May 24th 2019, 12:20 am

SithArchaeologist wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

SithArchaeologist wrote:Tier 1:
Luke Skywalker, Darth Krayt, Darth Sidious

Tier 2:
Yoda, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi

Tier 3:
Meetra Surik, The Hero of Tython, The Empire's Wrath, Darth Malgus, Darth Marr, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaina Solo Fel, Darth Caedus, Darth Bane, Darth Vader

There's more I could slot in there, but you get the idea.

What's Marr ever done with a blade that would make you put him in the same tier as Vader, Caedus, etc

He's Malgus' equal.

Scans for them being "equals"? And Malgus isn't the greatest duelist in the world tbh

May 24th 2019, 12:21 am

Trayvon wrote:God Tier:
KFV.

Tier 1:
Darth Sidious, Luke Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker, Master Yoda.

Tier 1.5:
Count Dooku.

Tier 2:
Asajj Ventress, Darth Maul, General Grievous.

Trash Tier:
Mace Windu, Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi, SWTOR.

You stay trollin

May 24th 2019, 1:01 am

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

The Emperor's clone bodies were stronger than his original, so he could use Force augmentation to a greater extent than in RotS. And with Krayt, it's basically him growing immensely more powerful from already giving peak Kenobi hell.

May 24th 2019, 1:24 am

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

The Emperor's clone bodies were stronger than his original, so he could use Force augmentation to a greater extent than in RotS. And with Krayt, it's basically him growing immensely more powerful from already giving peak Kenobi hell.

1. What evidence is there to support that Krayt continued to improve his saber skills and not just his power in the force? Of course being more powerful in the force means better aug but unless he actually continued to improve as a duelist, I'm not sold that he should be top 3 over Yoda

2. Does better aug really cover the gap between Yoda and Palps as duelists tho? Didn't when Yoda go all out he stomped with a blade pretty quickly? That could be incorrect but I recall seeing someone say that

May 24th 2019, 3:10 am

May 24th 2019, 3:19 am

Azronger wrote:1. Darth Krayt
2. Darth Vader

May 24th 2019, 5:12 am

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Darth Krayt
2. Darth Vader

Krayt is mighty bro

May 24th 2019, 5:22 am

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

The Emperor's clone bodies were stronger than his original, so he could use Force augmentation to a greater extent than in RotS. And with Krayt, it's basically him growing immensely more powerful from already giving peak Kenobi hell.

1. What evidence is there to support that Krayt continued to improve his saber skills and not just his power in the force? Of course being more powerful in the force means better aug but unless he actually continued to improve as a duelist, I'm not sold that he should be top 3 over Yoda

2. Does better aug really cover the gap between Yoda and Palps as duelists tho? Didn't when Yoda go all out he stomped with a blade pretty quickly? That could be incorrect but I recall seeing someone say that

1. Krayt states he "honed his skills in the Clone Wars and [has] killed thousands of opponents since then, and [i]Insider # 113 states "Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades." Furthermore, Force strength and lightsaber prowess are inextricably linked: one affects the other deeply. With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves whereas earlier, still encased in the vonduun armor, he had a decent fight against a weaker, less experienced Cade. Krayt didn't get more skilled between the two engagements, merely more powerful, yet that in itself was enough to create a large difference.

2. Yoda used a concentrated burst of speed to disarm Sidious, and Sidious had an environmental disadvantage. Multiple quotes state they're equals in dueling. By Dark Empire, the Reborn Emperor should definitely have surpassed Yoda.

May 24th 2019, 10:18 pm

PT era:
1.Knightfall Anakin.
2.Grand Master Yoda.
3.Master Windu.
4.Darth Sidious.
5.EoROTS!Kenobi.
6.Darth Maul.
7.Darth Tyranus.
8.Asajj Ventress.
9.Savage Opress.
10.Ahsoka Tano.

TOR:
1.HoTlander.
2.Revan.
3.Reborn Arcann.
4.Master Surik.
5.Empire's Wrath.
6.Barsen'thor III.
7.First Son.
8.Darth Nox.
9.Darth Malgus.
10.Lord Scourge.

Legacy/NJO:
1.Grand Master Luke.
2.Sarasu Taalon.
3.Darth Caedus.
4.Reborn Krayt.
5.Lord Nyax.
6.Jaina Solo.
7.Kyp Durron.
8.Kyle Katarn.
9.Saba Sebatyne.
10.Mara Jade.

Ancient Sith:
1.Exar Kun.
2.Ulic Qel-Droma.
3.Tulak Hord.
4.Marka Ragnos.
5.Freedon Nadd.
6.Naga Sadow.
7.Ludo Kressh.
8.Ajunta Pall.
9.Remulus Dreypa.
10..Karness Muur.

May 24th 2019, 10:46 pm

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

The Emperor's clone bodies were stronger than his original, so he could use Force augmentation to a greater extent than in RotS. And with Krayt, it's basically him growing immensely more powerful from already giving peak Kenobi hell.

1. What evidence is there to support that Krayt continued to improve his saber skills and not just his power in the force? Of course being more powerful in the force means better aug but unless he actually continued to improve as a duelist, I'm not sold that he should be top 3 over Yoda

2. Does better aug really cover the gap between Yoda and Palps as duelists tho? Didn't when Yoda go all out he stomped with a blade pretty quickly? That could be incorrect but I recall seeing someone say that

1. Krayt states he "honed his skills in the Clone Wars and [has] killed thousands of opponents since then, and Insider # 113 states "Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades." Furthermore, Force strength and lightsaber prowess are inextricably linked: one affects the other deeply. With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves whereas earlier, still encased in the vonduun armor, he had a decent fight against a weaker, less experienced Cade. Krayt didn't get more skilled between the two engagements, merely more powerful, yet that in itself was enough to create a large difference.

2. Yoda used a concentrated burst of speed to disarm Sidious, and Sidious had an environmental disadvantage. Multiple quotes state they're equals in dueling. By Dark Empire, the Reborn Emperor should definitely have surpassed Yoda.

Fair enough on Krayt. Also how Did Sidious have an environmental advantage? I've seen many people say that but I've never seen anyone actually elaborate on how he had an advantage

May 24th 2019, 10:49 pm

LadyKulvax wrote:PT era:
1.Knightfall Anakin.
2.Grand Master Yoda.
3.Master Windu.
4.Darth Sidious.
5.EoROTS!Kenobi.
6.Darth Maul.
7.Darth Tyranus.
8.Asajj Ventress.
9.Savage Opress.
10.Ahsoka Tano.

TOR:
1.HoTlander.
2.Revan.
3.Reborn Arcann.
4.Master Surik.
5.Empire's Wrath.
6.Barsen'thor III.
7.First Son.
8.Darth Nox.
9.Darth Malgus.
10.Lord Scourge.

Legacy/NJO:
1.Grand Master Luke.
2.Sarasu Taalon.
3.Darth Caedus.
4.Reborn Krayt.
5.Lord Nyax.
6.Jaina Solo.
7.Kyp Durron.
8.Kyle Katarn.
9.Saba Sebatyne.
10.Mara Jade.

Ancient Sith:
1.Exar Kun.
2.Ulic Qel-Droma.
3.Tulak Hord.
4.Marka Ragnos.
5.Freedon Nadd.
6.Naga Sadow.
7.Ludo Kressh.
8.Ajunta Pall.
9.Remulus Dreypa.
10..Karness Muur.

Erm... Ahsoka? lol

May 24th 2019, 10:50 pm

Around where would y'all place Caedus, Exar Kun, and Malgus?

May 24th 2019, 11:18 pm

Azronger wrote:With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves

That fight was anything but a stomp or "just a few moves," lol.

May 25th 2019, 12:06 am

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Azronger wrote:With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves

That fight was anything but a stomp or "just a few moves," lol.

Their fight in Legacy: War was most definitely a stomp.

May 25th 2019, 12:18 am

From my comparatively limited exposer largely limited to The Rise of the Empire era:

1. Yoda
2. Mace Windu
(At his peak Windu is nigh equal to Yoda, the only reason I rank the latter higher is do to Gillard's ruling. Both have overcome Sidious in saber combat which is enough for me to give them the first two spots)
3. Sidious
4. Knightfall Vader
(Knightfall Vader is difficult to place. I'm convinced he's the most powerful on the list as of RotS, but mentally he's not up to par with the other three. His victory over Dooku is great but it's not exactly beyond Yoda, Sidious and Peak Windu.)
5. Dooku
6. Kenobi
(They are practically equal tbh, but I reckon Dooku is a slightly better 'pure duelist' in a technical sense. In a sabers only match I don't either of them could really do anything to each other if they play to their strengths - Kenobi's ataru is useless and can't win with defense alone, while Dooku can't pierce his guard if Kenobi doesn't give him an opening. Soresu is energy effeciant and if Dooku ever gets tired he can rejuviate himself at will - and in fact he did while Kenobi was stonewalling him in the novel, so the prospect of either of them wearing down is unlikely.)
7. Darth Maul
8. Yaddle
9. A'Sharad Hett
(I have not read Legacy but even his Rise of the Empire showings are some of the most impressive. Fighting as a near equal to a slightly post-prime RotS Kenobi and stomping a raged amped Anakin a few months post-AotC.)
10.Ventress
11. Depa Biliaba
(A tentative ranking. I know a lot of people dismissed Mace's comment on her showing superior blade work, but I honestly don't see any logical reason for him to embellish in his private journals. Besides the comment only applies to their mission on Nar Shadar - ten years before Shatterpoint where Mace could have easily improved and as of TPM still be much more powerful and overall superior).
12. Kit Fisto
13. Qui-Gon Jinn
14. Cin Drallig
15.Soara Antana
(Soara actually has better feats IMO but since she was present during Operation Knightfall Drallig factually scales above her.)
16. Sora Bulq

May 25th 2019, 1:37 am

This is hard, I will not be acknowledging NJO as in my headcanon it never happened, and it just muddies things up.
Theoretically if I were to include the NJO it might take up my entire list, so instead I have opted for a specific way of thinking, I will be ranking duelists during the time-frame of the original 7 star wars films, this includes EU backround but excludes TOR, KOTOR, NJO etc... only TCW, Empire era, and pre TPM and onwards will be analyzed.

Arguable: ROTJ Luke (enraged) but I don't think his victory over Vader really had anything to do with skill, Luke overpowered Vader in a direct Blade lock, for reference Luke was incapable of sustaining a basic bladelock with a holding back Vader, so the amp was significant, not going to get into this, but suffice it to say, Luke may be the Greatest Duelist period even at this stage.
1: The single greatest duelist of the entire Filmverse including EU material is Darth Vader: being more skilled than Anakin skywalker simply puts him here otherwise he would be far far lower.
Honorable mention/1.5: MF Kenobi, Lord Vader have mercy, contending with MFV puts him this high, but if this doesn't prove "the force" is a mguffin what does?
2: Yoda, this guy is breaching Anakin's paygrade but still below him
3: Count Dooku, you think Sheev is tough? you think Sheev is a god tier swordsman? Do some research and you will see Dooku dueling wank is OP
4: Darth Sidious, only this low because Yoda and Dooku have better showings, Dooku specifically facing off against Yoda and doing far better than sheev himself did (Though this was a superior Yoda to the one Dooku fought)
5: Asharad Hett, this guy probably confuses you all and he could easily be moved lower if the MF revelation was a one time amp, but seeing as how it likely carried over, this Tusken did damn fine against the guy who held off MFV... he deserves higher, but I am keeping him low because he is so damn unquantifiable, plus Kenobi was arguably hindered, and holding back perhaps.
6: Asajj Ventress could be above this Mace, to be honest.
7: The General of the CIS
8: Le Mace Windu, ffs why is this character so lame? He's got a neat book that provides an introspective on war, but WHY??? I want to like Mace I want to rank him higher, but without his Vaapad amp he is nothing special.
9: F*cking Maul
10: The stupidity that is Qui-gon Jinn

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