★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

Going for Gethzerion for now. May switch to Darish Vol.

yeah, imma go with vol

I vote for Cilghal.

Actually I'm recanting my vote. I'm on the fence between Revan and Cilghal.

Ziggy wrote:Then I will say this don't have to point out why the discrepancy exists.

That logic can go the other way too: I could posit that Jacen was extremely distracted and caught off guard by Aurra Sing and the threat of his daughter being murdered, so the multitude of distractions made him perform worse. While you may not like this explanation, the discrepancy between his performance against Sing and his performance against not-Luke nonetheless exists.

So then it becomes: which explanation makes more sense? I think "Jacen is concerned for his daughter and the distraction of having to save her hurt him" is more coherent than "Jacen is pathologically delusional about Luke's power for no apparent reason".

Performance in a clean 1 v 1 against a top-tier is a better indicator relative to the tournament than speculating over how relevant various factors such as surprise and defending someone else are.

This still generously assumes two things anyway:

1. That Aurra actually did as well as you say she did (more on that later).
2. That early-LotF Jacen matters to endgame Jacen because you claim Jacen thought he was getting close to Luke in power (when, IIRC, he just said he was getting closer).

And currently this match is Mace or Revans

Well even if you don't accept Jacen, Vol's relativity to Luke seems pretty clear.

That being said, I vote for Cilghal.

Actually, I’m going Cilghal

Mark me down for Mace.

I feel the way that we're assessing character's power levels is a little off for this round considering it's stated to be: 

the extent that Darth Malgus would need an amp to defeat them.

But Malgus being a Darksider, the more he is amped, the more a character like Mace would be able to draw off of his opponent's energy due to Vaapad and the way the superconducting loop functions.

The point of this tourney is to get a general consensus of what Force using characters the community view to be the most powerful/best combatants. Due to one unique ability of someone who is usually a Maul/Kenobi level character, if we go by this metric, they may scale to a much higher level than they really have any right being placed. 

I feel as if the standards for how we assess ranking should be altered. I understand the arguments against this as we have used this metric for every ranking thus far, but if we're being honest, the metric of the opponent being an amped Malgus has not really been taken into account. The last round was the first round where such arguments were truly made and I don't think the bar by which we measure being Malgus was a factor that effected the ultimate victor more favorably than it did their opponent.

@Azronger @ILS @The Ellimist

Revenge of the Sith wrote:"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."

Vaapad and superconducting loop has its limits so I don't think it is a hack that we should consider.

@Syndiciate I was never really a fan of the metric either, to be honest

It has its limits but even being limited it still puts him vastly above where he would be normally without such an external amp boosting his abilities. 

Again, if the purpose of this tourney is to assess character's general power levels, I don't see how we can justify using this metric.

i mean, its limit are higher than a sheev level character, so it could easily make mace sheev++ in power

The Ellimist wrote:BTW, it should be noted that in the fight between pre-prime Jacen and Kyle + 3 knights in Fury:

Ten seconds.
Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along his cheek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation.
They're coordinating. Good for them. Bad for me.

^ would have ended in a little over 10 seconds (several sentences and events later it's at 15 seconds).

I do think it's worth noting though that a team dynamic obviously changes things. With a team backing Katarn up and him coordinating with said team he would risk more exposure to fight more aggressively expecting his teammates to aid his defensive guard. I doubt Katarn would be as offensive at the expense of his defense were it a one on one fight.

I'll back Starkiller:

-He has comparable potential to Luke and experienced much more vigorous training than, for example, Luke's ROTJ iteration who matched Vader. The amount of raw power Starkiller is boasting should be immense.

-He has better environmental feats than basically all the other combatants - re-directing a falling "vast million ton" ISD, and atomising half of The Salvation (a 300m frigate) are insane demonstrations of power.

-He scales vastly above Vader, who I'm assuming that most of you have as bare minimum a high tier 7 (Gillard scale). He ragdolls Vader in TFU, and blasts away an army of clones that could have "easily" overpowered Vader in TFU 2.

-He's defended against a "desperation fuelled" Sheev's Lightning for 30 seconds with the most negative effects he experienced being incredible pain.

I'm also happy to vote for Windu, but I'm sticking with Starkiller for now.

vader > sk by ANH

Which you've substantiated with a shit ton of evidence. I concede.

oh ur right. lemme just see what sources u used for ur argument. oh wait

I actually mentioned events in the novels that everyone knows about though. You just made a general claim without any substantiation or references to the material.

Why would SK be included in those quotes? All of them are after TFU 2.

did SK die at the end of TFU 2? did he disappear from the galaxy? if he still lives, the quote applies to him as well

It's completely ambiguous whether he's alive at the time of those quotes which means they can't be used to scale Vader above him.

Sign me up as a Revanite again btw lol.

NotAA3 wrote:It's completely ambiguous whether he's alive at the time of those quotes which means they can't be used to scale Vader above him.

thats a fair point. i dont know either. he couldve tripped and died lol