LOTF Kyle Katarn vs Darth Vader

There is some reason to speculate that Jerec is stronger post VOTJ.  

Kyle beat him.  

Takes ROTJ Vader?

Replace Vaylin with Vader, and the Iokath purifier droid with Kyle.

Didn't Kyle win via Sever Force or something? Does that translate to being more powerful?

ILS wrote:Didn't Kyle win via Sever Force or something? Does that translate to being more powerful?

i said the same thing. doubt that it does.

Kyle literally obliterates

IG wrote:Kyle literally obliterates

Why?

Kyle wins, will make a case later down the line.

So yeah, nah

Vader ragdolls.

Corvinus wrote:Vader ragdolls.

Based on what?

@IG Based on being his clear superior.

Corvinus wrote:@IG Based on being his clear superior.

What? Kyle is described as "taxing" Caedus in a duel, to the point where Caedus acknowledges him as a threat and takes him out via speeder. That's not something Vader can accomplish lol.

@IG Why not?

BoD wrote:@IG Why not?

Has Vader shown anything on that level?

@IG A threat only in comparison to the fodder Kyle brought with him. In the same situation Vader slaughters the whole team trivially.

Corvinus wrote:@IG A threat only in comparison to the fodder Kyle brought with him. In the same situation Vader slaughters the whole team trivially.

No, he was a threat overall. You wouldn't have somebody acknowledge "Fodder 1 is fodder, fodder 2 is fodder, slightly above fodder is a threat" if the character themself is with Dooku, for example. Vader isn't that good comparatively, lol. Considering Mara Jade, a contemporary of Kyle is noted to be around or above Jerec's level as the Emperor's Hand, I think it's safe to say 40+ years of growth allow Mara (therefore Kyle as well) to be around that level too.

Vader stomping aurra in 19 BBY vs caedus, who had some trouble with her. the same ceadus who is above kyle.... hmm tough one

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:Vader stomping aurra in 19 BBY vs caedus, who had some trouble with her. the same ceadus who is above kyle.... hmm tough one

Considering Tempest Jacen is far, far below Fury Caedus, and Aurra had just gotten out of prison, wasn't in the best shape, etc, most of that argument is invalid.

@IG Sure you would. People do it all the time in Star Wars. You've even argued this in other threads. Stop trying to justify your lowballing of Vader.

Corvinus wrote:@IG Sure you would. People do it all the time in Star Wars. You've even argued this in other threads. Stop trying to justify your lowballing of Vader.

It isn't lowballing if one claims that a character is lower than you hold them lol. Considering my position of Vader (TPM Maul level) is the standard position at this point, I think it's more like you're wanking Vader, as opposed to me lowballing. And Caedus acknowledges Kyle as a threat. Considering in the same novel, he acknowledges Saba as a threat, despite Luke being there too, I think it's safe to say that he usually acknowledges characters as threats or fodder on an individual basis.

@IG You're not lowballing when you say Vader can't throw a speeder?

Corvinus wrote:@IG You're not lowballing when you say Vader can't throw a speeder?

I never said he couldn't? I said that Caedus was taxed to the point where he had to use the environment (in this case a speeder) to remove Kyle from combat, as opposed to direct removal (literally just killing him).

Has Vader shown anything on that level?

Duelling evenly with Roan Shryne - a Jedi considered a swordsmaster in a period where beings like Obi-Wan, Anakin, Mace and Yoda lived - barely 2 months (if that) after Mustafar after toying with 2 knights at once and one-shotting 3 padawans. He's also toyed with an assassin who could blitz a group of a dozen or more mercenaries in a few seconds. He then received massive growth after killing Shryne and has feats like holding the upper hand against SK on Kamino (twice), with SK admitting he can't beat Vader. He's also stomped 4 knights simultaneously. All of these feats are pre-ESB, when he became "far more formidable". So yes, Vader has shown feats on that level long before his prime. This is Vader before going through repeated immense power and skill growth.

@IG You actually did. Even though we've seen Vader perform better in worse conditions.