Bane vs. Tenebrous vs. Plagueis vs. Venamis vs. Sidious vs. Maul

Rank the following characters in power, skill, whatever:

• Darth Bane
  
• Darth Tenebrous
  
• Darth Plagueis as of Part 1
  
• Darth Plagueis as of Part 2
  
• Darth Venamis
  
• Darth Sidious as of Part 2
  
• Darth Maul as of TPM
  

Darth Plagueis as of Part 2
Darth Plagueis as of part 1
Darth Tenebrous
Darth Venamis
Darth Bane
Darth Maul as of TPM
Darth Sidious as of part 2

Darth Plagueis as of Part 2
Darth Plagueis as of Part 1
Darth Tenebrous
Darth Bane
Darth Venamis/Darth Maul
Darth Venamis/Darth Maul
Darth Sidious as of Part 1

@Kilius @xolthol

Part 1 Sidious isn't on the list

Oups indeed.

Darth Tenebrous
Darth Plagueis as of Part 2/52BBY

These two are on pretty even footing by this point, for my money. At worst Plagueis surpasses Tenebrous somewhere between 52BBY-42BBY, at worst worst somewhere between 42BBY-32BBY.

Darth Plagueis as of Part 1
Darth Venamis
TPM Darth Maul

We already know what happened here. As for TPM Maul, I believe this is an appropriate rough range for him at least. He definitely has the feats to, at least, match up with Plagueis and Venamis, namely moving too fast for security cameras to display unless put in slow motion or moving as a blur to droid photoreceptors (both feats replicated by part 1 Plagueis). Nearly killing 37BBY Sheev in a fit of rage - as an emaciated, injured, sleep-deprived, exhausted 17 year old - that over the course of the next five years would not only become Maul's normal fighting level, but would be quite happily surpassed. Chances are Maul's combat prowess is more in line with Part 2 Plagueis but I like to be as conservative as possible.

Darth Sidious as of Part 2

I don't think Sheev has the experience or feats to justify beating part 1 Plagueis or Venamis by this point.

Darth Bane

We know that Tenebrous as an apprentice, over 100 years before the Plagueis novel begins, was more powerful than his Master - the extent to which Tenebrous may have been overplaying due to his contempt for him, but nevertheless, he viewed him as an inferior and dispatched him "customary efficiency." Plagueis noted that him being able to kill Tenebrous, even via surprise, had to be because the Bith was growing old and sluggish, otherwise the assassination would have failed and Plagueis himself would be dead... except we find out that Tenebrous was planning to die and had foreseen this, so he's likely not even as sluggish as Plagueis thought. Regardless, Tenebrous viewed his Banite training as simplistic and then dispatched his Master without much of a headache.

Tenebrous' master is something like 800 years of incremental power/mastery increases removed from Darth Bane at this point, so apprentice!Tenebrous shits on Bane. Now, with me believing that Plagueis 13 years after killing Tenebrous should now more or less be a great fight for him... I find it extremely hard to believe that he went from being below Bane in Part 1 to above apprentice!Tenebrous in that short amount of time. Chances are, with Plagueis' 100 years of apprenticeship already under his belt he's already above Bane in part 1.

Part 2 Sheev is a bit more difficult... but I'm willing to bet he's above Bane as well. Bane has more formal training by this point, more experience and so on, but Sheev has far, far, far, far, far more raw power, and had 13 years of formal training. Of those 13 he trained with a lightsaber for a "few", but he was clearly no slouch given the Kursid army and blaster deflection feats (which he had two more years of training after).Sheev's training would also be of a much higher quality than Bane's. Impossible to tell for sure, perhaps, but if Sheev really is below Bane at this point, it means within twenty years he went from being weaker than Bane to stronger than the latest Banites, likely Tenebrous if not at the very least his master.

As for Maul... pretty simple, I don't think 37BBY Sheev would even be phased if you gave Bane his best crack at breaking his defence. So, there's no doubt in my mind Maul's better than Bane.

So final ranking:

1. / 2. Darth Tenebrous, 52BBY Darth Plagueis

3. TPM Darth Maul

4. 67BBY Darth Plagueis

5. Darth Venamis

6. / 7. 52BBY Darth Sidious, Darth Bane

Part 2 Plagy
TPM Maul
Part 2 Sidious
Tenebrous
Part 1 Plagy
Venamis
Bane

ILS wrote:Darth Tenebrous
Darth Plagueis as of Part 2/52BBY

These two are on pretty even footing by this point, for my money. At worst Plagueis surpasses Tenebrous somewhere between 52BBY-42BBY, at worst worst somewhere between 42BBY-32BBY.

Darth Plagueis as of Part 1
Darth Venamis
TPM Darth Maul

We already know what happened here. As for TPM Maul, I believe this is an appropriate rough range for him at least. He definitely has the feats to, at least, match up with Plagueis and Venamis, namely moving too fast for security cameras to display unless put in slow motion or moving as a blur to droid photoreceptors (both feats replicated by part 1 Plagueis). Nearly killing 37BBY Sheev in a fit of rage - as an emaciated, injured, sleep-deprived, exhausted 17 year old - that over the course of the next five years would not only become Maul's normal fighting level, but would be quite happily surpassed. Chances are Maul's combat prowess is more in line with Part 2 Plagueis but I like to be as conservative as possible.

Darth Sidious as of Part 2

I don't think Sheev has the experience or feats to justify beating part 1 Plagueis or Venamis by this point.

Darth Bane

We know that Tenebrous as an apprentice, over 100 years before the Plagueis novel begins, was more powerful than his Master - the extent to which Tenebrous may have been overplaying due to his contempt for him, but nevertheless, he viewed him as an inferior and dispatched him "customary efficiency." Plagueis noted that him being able to kill Tenebrous, even via surprise, had to be because the Bith was growing old and sluggish, otherwise the assassination would have failed and Plagueis himself would be dead... except we find out that Tenebrous was planning to die and had foreseen this, so he's likely not even as sluggish as Plagueis thought. Regardless, Tenebrous viewed his Banite training as simplistic and then dispatched his Master without much of a headache.

Tenebrous' master is something like 800 years of incremental power/mastery increases removed from Darth Bane at this point, so apprentice!Tenebrous shits on Bane. Now, with me believing that Plagueis 13 years after killing Tenebrous should now more or less be a great fight for him... I find it extremely hard to believe that he went from being below Bane in Part 1 to above apprentice!Tenebrous in that short amount of time. Chances are, with Plagueis' 100 years of apprenticeship already under his belt he's already above Bane in part 1.

Part 2 Sheev is a bit more difficult... but I'm willing to bet he's above Bane as well. Bane has more formal training by this point, more experience and so on, but Sheev has far, far, far, far, far more raw power, and had 13 years of formal training. Of those 13 he trained with a lightsaber for a "few", but he was clearly no slouch given the Kursid army and blaster deflection feats (which he had two more years of training after).Sheev's training would also be of a much higher quality than Bane's. Impossible to tell for sure, perhaps, but if Sheev really is below Bane at this point, it means within twenty years he went from being weaker than Bane to stronger than the latest Banites, likely Tenebrous if not at the very least his master.

As for Maul... pretty simple, I don't think 37BBY Sheev would even be phased if you gave Bane his best crack at breaking his defence. So, there's no doubt in my mind Maul's better than Bane.

So final ranking:

1. / 2. Darth Tenebrous, 52BBY Darth Plagueis

3. TPM Darth Maul

4. 67BBY Darth Plagueis

5. Darth Venamis

6. / 7. 52BBY Darth Sidious, Darth Bane

37 BBY Sidious should be more powerful than Tenebrous or at least around the same level.

I agree.

ILS wrote:I agree.

So wouldn't TPM Maul then be above Tenebrous by your estimation?

Too ambiguous for me to be certain. But it's possible. The Hypori feat is pretty immense taken in it's full context and there's very few characters even at their best who could replicate it.

Azronger wrote:@Kilius @xolthol

Part 1 Sidious isn't on the list

Sorry I was sleep depraved when I wrote that. Fixed now.