Darth Malgus vs Adi Gallia

HellfireUnit wrote:Malgus is a fodder and I will make a case about it.

yeah good luck with that

To reinforce Cilghal's posts;

General Grievous' cybernetics and unorthodox fighting form make him practically invincible in combat according to Star Wars: Fandex Deluxe Edition, with Dooku believing that "few, if any" beings would be able to stand against him in a duel, and San Hill claiming his abilities would outstrip any Jedi. After just 10 seconds of fighting, Adi Gallia tags Grievous and immediately gains the upper hand, forcing him to flee out of fear for his life;

So Close: Above Saleucami, Adi crosses sabers with Grievous and gains the upper hand in their duel. But a ruptured docking tube allows him to make yet another quick getaway.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars New Battlefronts (scan)

During their mission to rescue Jedi Eeth Koth, Gallia steps in just as Grievous is about to kill Obi-Wan. Her skill with a lightsaber sends the cyborg running!
Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Jedi Heroes

To address counters I've seen to these;
1. The New Battlefronts quote says the docking tube collapse is what allows Grievous to escape, not the reason for him fleeing in the first place. Meaning there's no contradiction with Jedi Heroes; Grievous was sent packing by Gallia's skill, and this moment of chaos just gave him the opening to run away from that.

2. Grievous defeating her 35 episodes later (chronologically) can't really be used either, as we don't see the final part of the duel. Grievous enters with a squad of droids that are shown taking out her Clones quicker than the converse, and Dave Filoni, George Lucas, Matt Wood etc. all take every opportunity to highlight Grievous' cowardice, making this win highly questionable. This has the same setup as the Koth fight.

Against Savage, you have to remember a strength advantage is a factor which TCW and its tie-ins heavily emphasise - more so than any other material - to such an extent that augmentation barely seems to be a thing at times (see Dooku, Ventress, and even Obi-Wan and Anakin). For Gallia to only be pushed back by Savage "little by little" is insane.

Gallia stomps Grievous in 10 seconds, who shits all over Malgus in a war of accolades. Savage's strength advantage is exaggerated by outside factors and shouldn't be seen as a weakness for her, as she still gives him a decent fight.

Jake's sold me. Gallia has this.

dark_globe wrote:

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:

gallia got stomped and killed by savage .

That fight was in no way a stomp lol.

ok she fought him for few seconds and died ( sounds better for you ? )  .
it doesn´t change the fact savage killed her low diff .

It was hardly a few seconds, they duelled for a minute and Savage only forced Gallia backward little by little. She contended and performed well. Sure it wasn't the fight of Savage's life, but it doesn't have to be in order to be impressive.

MasterCilghal wrote:

Dark_Globe wrote:

i digged this old thread :

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-malgus-vs-savage-opress-1557097/

as you can see most people see malgus as victorious or at least equally as good .

so you have gallia going against superior combatant as the one who already managed to kill her in a duel .

i rest my case 

:eh:

Literally, all that required. This is nothing more than an appeal to common consensus, not an argument.

this gallia wank is starting to be ridiculous .
accept the fact that she died to savage
no matter how hard you try to make a case for her this simple fact remains .
savage < basically any noteworthy tier 8 jedi / sith .
gallia would have a hard time against some tier 7 jedi / sith warriors
let alone guys like malgus .

her performance against grievous is negated by her dead to savage .
it seems like nothing more than inconsistent writing / outlier feat .

dark_globe wrote:this gallia wank is starting to be ridiculous .
accept the fact that she died to savage
no matter how hard you try to make a case for her this simple fact remains .
savage < basically any noteworthy tier 8 jedi / sith .
gallia would have a hard time against some tier 7 jedi / sith warriors
let alone guys like malgus .

her performance against grievous is negated by her dead to savage .
it seems like nothing more than inconsistent writing / outlier feat .

You haven’t provided a counter argument. For example, Why is Malgus level 8?

dark_globe wrote:this gallia wank is starting to be ridiculous .
accept the fact that she died to savage
no matter how hard you try to make a case for her this simple fact remains .
savage < basically any noteworthy tier 8 jedi / sith .
gallia would have a hard time against some tier 7 jedi / sith warriors
let alone guys like malgus .

her performance against grievous is negated by her dead to savage .
it seems like nothing more than inconsistent writing / outlier feat .

What places Malgus over Savage then lol?

dark_globe wrote:btw how about providing some words instead of totally ugly memes ...
i presented reason why malgus destroys . you provided nothing .

https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-bandwagon/ What you presented for why “malgus destroys” isn’t even legit reasoning.

DG as usual is appealing to common consensus rather than constructing an actual argument. A predictable and wasteful tactic. Don't know why I'm surprised tbh.

sidious himself held malgus in high esteem apparently:
In his quest for domination, Darth Sidious tracked down what remained of five pivotal Sith texts written by his most powerful predecessors.



malgus jumps and lands with the force powerful enough to shatter stones:
He stepped to the doorway, drew on the Force, activated his lightsaber, and leapt out into the dark.

Malgus descended like a meteor. His cape flew out behind and over him, a comma of darkness, and he held his lightsaber in a two-handed grip.
Power went before him in a wave of visible distortion. The shuttle out of which he had leapt flew off into the night sky.
hitting the ground in an explosion of might that shattered the stones around them and turned them into a hail of shrapnel.


power of his blows made the hands of zallows former padawan and now jedi knight leneer to quiver
The force of the Sith’s blow made her arms quiver



He drives Leneer to her knees :
Malgus’s strength drove her to her knees.



he can crack marble with his bare hands:
he slammed a fist down on the secretary’s desk, putting a crack on the marble top.


he is fast enough to create a shield from his lightsaber and react to dozen of blaster bolts with clarity sending them back to his enemies:
The red line of his weapon spun so fast in his hand it expanded into a shield.
He closed the distance between them rapidly. The red line of Malgus's lightsaber moved so quickly it blurred into a red smear
perceived the dozens of bolts and their trajectory with perfect clarity. Without breaking stride he whipped his blade left, right,
angled it ten degrees, and turned three bolts back on the soldiers who’d fired them, killing all three.


wastly pre prime malgus killed one of the best jedi masters of his era darach :
he can tank a handgranade to the face and continue fighting , he can withstand TK wawe from satele powerful enough to smash cliffs made of rocks .
after that he not only survives but continues to fight and defeat two other jedi .

he also defeats another great jedi of the era van zallow in a great duel kicking him with enough force to send him flying backwards 10 meters .
Malgus spun into a high, Force-augmented kick that hit Zallow in the chest and sent him flying backward ten meters.


he is also capable of powerful force scream and lightning as well as TK feats and force choke :
While  injured and before his prime, he blasts away several tons of metallic rubble that was part of two buildings:
Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.
He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged.


The strength of my scream buckled the bridge's transparisteel viewport and left the crew's ears bleeding.
More gratifyingly, my rage overloaded the fuel slugs of an incoming wave of Aureks. The bright bursts of their deaths raised a smile.



Another Jedi stepped in front of him, blue blade held high. Malgus barely saw him.
He simply extended a hand, pushed through the Jedi’s insufficient defenses, seized his throat with the Force, and choked him to death.
Tossing the body aside, he moved toward Zallow.


When the crowd did not respond to his demand, he slammed a fist into his palm and let anger-fueled power explode outward from his body. Screams sounded as the blast shoved everything away from him in all directions.
Bodies flew backward, slammed into one another, into the walls, against and through windows. The transport he’d rode on lurched from the blast. The doors of the medical facility flew from their mounts and crashed to the ground.


Malgus kills two Padawans as well as a Jedi Knight with Force Lightning:
Malgus, not to be outdone, picked a Jedi Knight at random, a human female ten meters away, held forth his left hand, and discharged veins of blue lightning from his fingertips. The jagged lines of energy cut a swath through the battle, harvesting two Padawans as they went, until they caught up to the Jedi Knight and lifted her off her feet.
She screamed as the lightning ripped into her, her flesh made temporarily translucent from the dark power coursing through her. Malgus savored her pain as she died.



He kills a Jedi with Lightning, burning his flesh and disarming him in the process

Malgus brings down an entire Strike Team
(composing of either Darth Nox, the Wrath, Cipher Nine and the Grand Champion of the Great Hunt, or the Hero of Tython, Barsen'thor, Meteor and Voidhound)
to their knees with Force Lightning


sources: deceived,the third lesson etc .

i dont see how gallia could compete with such brute force , durability ,
level of augmentation , his many powerful offensive techniques , ferocity etc .
gallia dies horribly .

by previos posts i just wanted to save myself some time because
this fight should be so obvious and one sided it shouldn´t require any further explanations .

Darth Malgus still stomps the living fuck out of this weak Jedi.

@dark_globe

More argumentum ad populum. Do you ever get tired of committing logical fallacies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Edit: The post I was responding to was deleted.

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:@dark_globe

More argumentum ad populum. Do you ever get tired of committing logical fallacies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Edit: The post I was responding to was deleted.

i made a rather long case for malgus . you just keep posting shejt ...
you have one outlier feat for gallia (one card is only thing she has , malgus has many feats to his name)
and the fact she died to savage remains .

i was editing here it is for your satisfaction:

huge hubris on those who are trying to sell tier 6 / low tier 7 jedi (at best) for/into something she is not and never has been .
but i get where these jokers are coming from -
they need to wank their egos in a sense
(yeah "look at me" i´m the best debater i can take this shit tier character and make it compete with solid tier 8s by sheer power of "my" words or so called "evidence")

dark_globe wrote:

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:@dark_globe

More argumentum ad populum. Do you ever get tired of committing logical fallacies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Edit: The post I was responding to was deleted.

i made a rather long case for malgus . you just keep posting shejt ...
you have one outlier feat for gallia and the fact she died to savage nothing more .

i was editing here it is for your satisfaction:

huge hubris on those who are trying to sell tier 6 / low tier 7 jedi (at best) for/into something she is not and never has been .

but i get where these jokers are coming from -
they need to wank their egos in a sense
(yeah i´m the best debater i can take this shit tier character and make it compete with solid tier 8s by sheer power of "my" words or so called "evidence"

I'm not posting crap at all. I literally said Malgus wins and only jumped in to:

A) Correct the fact that Gallia got stomped by Savage cause she clearly didn't.

B) Point out how many logical fallacies you're committing while trying to make a case for Malgus. The feats you presented may be an argument, but constantly spamming "most people think Malgus beats Savage" isn't one.

yeah but the fact is they do think so .
i decided to make a long post to prove my / their point .

the thing is i´m tired of spending an hour or so digging materials to prove something that should be common knowledge and long established fact in the lore.

@dark_globe

yeah but the fact is they do think so .

And that still doesn't make it an argument.

i decided to make a long post to prove my / their point .

Good for you. This still doesn't change the fact that appealing to common consensus isn't an argument; it's a fallacy.

the thing is i´m tired of spending an hour or so digging materials to prove something that should be common knowledge and long established fact in the lore .

Well, to make sure you didn't go through that effort in vain, I can draft a devil's advocate response and rep Gallia.

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:@dark_globe

yeah but the fact is they do think so .

And that still doesn't make it an argument.

i decided to make a long post to prove my / their point .

Good for you. This still doesn't change the fact that appealing to common consensus isn't an argument; it's a fallacy.

the thing is i´m tired of spending an hour or so digging materials to prove something that should be common knowledge and long established fact in the lore .

Well, to make sure you didn't go through that effort in vain, I can draft a devil's advocate response and rep Gallia.

also by your logic someone can make a post TPM kenobi vs RoTS sheev and the guy who says :
"this is nonsense , everyone knows sidious is better" can be labeled
as "populist" and as appeling to general consensus because he failed to provide evidence ...
because he refused to spend time and energy proving something that should be a fact .

If you can't be bothered to gather evidence and make a case to substantiate a point why are you on a debating forum? Also that response took an hour? Lmfao.

yeah like you are always in a mood to provide long evidence .
most of your posts are one or two words and that´s it .so why are you on a debating forum ?!
an hour ? no , roughly 20 minutes but even that was a waste of time in this case .

dark_globe wrote:

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:@dark_globe

yeah but the fact is they do think so .

And that still doesn't make it an argument.

i decided to make a long post to prove my / their point .

Good for you. This still doesn't change the fact that appealing to common consensus isn't an argument; it's a fallacy.

the thing is i´m tired of spending an hour or so digging materials to prove something that should be common knowledge and long established fact in the lore .

Well, to make sure you didn't go through that effort in vain, I can draft a devil's advocate response and rep Gallia.

also by your logic someone can make a post TPM kenobi vs RoTS sheev and the guy who says :
"this is nonsense , everyone knows sidious is better" can be labeled
as "populist" and as appeling to general consensus because he failed to provide evidence ...
because he refused to spend time and energy proving something that should be a fact .

By my logic, yes, that would be the case. You're just listing off a scenario that doesn't contradict anything I've said and going "haha, lol, I'm right" without actually addressing the fact that appealing to the common consensus is a fallacy. You're assuming that something is a fact, just because the vast majority of people believe it so. In the past, the belief held by the vast majority was that black people were inferior to white people, does that make that statement true? Of course not, it's fucking racist. Note that someone can still be right when appealing to the common consensus (e.g. in the Kenobi vs Sidious hypothetical), and still be committing a logical fallacy by assuming that something is true because everyone believes it to be so.

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:

dark_globe wrote:

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:@dark_globe

yeah but the fact is they do think so .

And that still doesn't make it an argument.

i decided to make a long post to prove my / their point .

Good for you. This still doesn't change the fact that appealing to common consensus isn't an argument; it's a fallacy.

the thing is i´m tired of spending an hour or so digging materials to prove something that should be common knowledge and long established fact in the lore .

Well, to make sure you didn't go through that effort in vain, I can draft a devil's advocate response and rep Gallia.

also by your logic someone can make a post TPM kenobi vs RoTS sheev and the guy who says :
"this is nonsense , everyone knows sidious is better" can be labeled
as "populist" and as appeling to general consensus because he failed to provide evidence ...
because he refused to spend time and energy proving something that should be a fact .

By my logic, yes, that would be the case. You're just listing off a scenario that doesn't contradict anything I've said and going "haha, lol, I'm right" without actually addressing the fact that appealing to the common consensus is a fallacy. You're assuming that something is a fact, just because the vast majority of people believe it so. In the past, the belief held by the vast majority was that black people were inferior to white people, does that make that statement true? Of course not, it's fucking racist. Note that someone can still be right when appealing to the common consensus (e.g. in the Kenobi vs Sidious hypothetical), and still be committing a logical fallacy by assuming that something is true because everyone believes it to be so.

i get your POV but you are sadly not getting mine and still have your tunel vision .
common consensus is not always a bad thing . sometimes it is as you pointed out in rather extreme case .
believe me if i think something aint right i will not support it even if im the only one .

but im a bit tired for philosophy .
so back to the OP malgus wins because he has much more feats .
he has an arsenal of many offensive skills and powers
such as lightning , force scream , superior TK , force choke , insane durability ,
more raw power etc .

@dark_globe

i get your POV but you are sadly not getting mine and still have your tunel vision .

Care to explain to me what your POV is then?

common consensus is not always a bad thing .

No, it is not, I'm agreed there. But once again you fail to see the point, appealing to it (what you were doing) isn't a viable argumentation strategy (which is why I called you out on it), as it's just appealing to a bunch of opinions and opinions aren't always true. Thus far, you've utterly failed to address this, and have simply dodged the point by bringing up examples where the common consensus is right without acknowledging I can do the same in reverse.

sometimes it is as you pointed out in rather extreme case .

Exactly, sometimes it can be wrong, making appealing to it a flawed style of argumentation.

believe me if i think something aint right i will not support it even if im the only one .

So far I've seen very little evidence to support this. Even then this doesn't change a thing, as you clearly still are somewhat swayed by the common opinion (why appeal to it otherwise?), meaning any examples you can cite of you saying the opposite to the common opinion, don't disprove the notion that you are for all intents and purposes, a sheep.

this is a debating forum about fictional world kiddo not a real world .
so sometimes to save time i appeal to it if the people i take as credible debaters share my opinion and opinion of others
and if i deem the battle as one sided (in my opinion) i don´t want to waste time to prove the obvious (that is my POV)
don´t call me a sheep cause you know jack about me .
i´m anything but .