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The EllimistLevel Five
Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 21st 2019, 5:46 am
TotJ or spirit JA Kun, whichever you think is stronger.
A motivated peak Kyp Durron.
Who wins?
A motivated peak Kyp Durron.
Who wins?
AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 21st 2019, 8:27 pm
Kun wins given that he's canonically stated to have been more powerful than Kyp at his 'full might'.
Decaf_Beverages
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 21st 2019, 10:12 pm
Kun should in all cases take this
Deronn_Solo
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 11:28 am
LadyKulvax wrote:Kun wins given that he's canonically stated to have been more powerful than Kyp at his 'full might'.
Kyp's full might, at the time. Per the databank, Durron grew stronger with each life threatening experienced he faced -- indeed, he has had countless ever since JA trilogy. Not to mention, he is much more skilled at his zenith than his neophyte days.
HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 11:33 am
Deronn_Solo wrote:Kyp ragdolls.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 7:08 pm
Deronn_Solo wrote:LadyKulvax wrote:Kun wins given that he's canonically stated to have been more powerful than Kyp at his 'full might'.
Kyp's full might, at the time. Per the databank, Durron grew stronger with each life threatening experienced he faced -- indeed, he has had countless ever since JA trilogy. Not to mention, he is much more skilled at his zenith than his neophyte days.
What happpened to the Myth-Beni certified excuse that Kun had unlocked Kyp's full potential? Don't sit well with it anymore?
Even without that, Kun's still much greater given the cavernous gap in power between JA Kyp, JA Kun and TOTJ Kun. Something one can certainly ascertain via nothing less than Ood Bnar scaling:
Exar Kun >>> Ossus Kun ~ Ood Bnar >> DE Ood >> Sedriss XL ~\< DE Luke.
- Deronn_Solo
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 7:27 pm
You're fishing if you're trying to find some sort of double standard by invoking age old arguments I may or may not have even agreed with. I don't remember if I ever did adhere to the case, in fact, I explicitly argued against Beni and Wollf regarding the subject.
DE Luke is sub-Vader and Sedriss hardly even registered on Sidious' radar as a Force user and was believed to be far below his apprentice.
Kyp shared parity with NJO Luke and actually performed greater while replicating the exact feat in the same series written by the same author where the text explicitly contrast the showing - a Luke who absolutely shits on the DE version.
DE Luke is sub-Vader and Sedriss hardly even registered on Sidious' radar as a Force user and was believed to be far below his apprentice.
Kyp shared parity with NJO Luke and actually performed greater while replicating the exact feat in the same series written by the same author where the text explicitly contrast the showing - a Luke who absolutely shits on the DE version.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 7:39 pm
DE Luke is by all sources far greater than his ROTJ self, who was an equal-if not better-than Vader. Sedriss was more powerful than Jerec, kek. Implying that Sedriss is even closer to Vader than Jerec had been.
JA Kun is factually far greater than DS Kyp, who owes a lot of his power at his height in the series to Kun's augmentation in the first place, who was demonstratably close to Luke by himself. TOTJ Kun absolutely and utterly dwarfs JA Kun by any and all measures.
JA Kun is factually far greater than DS Kyp, who owes a lot of his power at his height in the series to Kun's augmentation in the first place, who was demonstratably close to Luke by himself. TOTJ Kun absolutely and utterly dwarfs JA Kun by any and all measures.
- Deronn_Solo
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 8:13 pm
- I have yet to see a quote that says Luke was = to Vader in the Force of of RotJ.
In G-canon, we have Lucas himself saying Vader was > Luke in the Force--in Legends, Luke mused Gethzerion could have wrecked him in the Force had he set his eyes on killing him, and Palpatine musing that Luke could become greater than Vader under his tutelage, indicating he wasn't quite > Vader at that time.
- Quote for Sedriss > Jerec? Still, doesn't overrule the myriad of quotes putting Sedriss far below Vader and more in line with Ventress.
- I mean that's good for Kun, but as I said, Kyp power grew after every hardship he faced per the Databank [while becoming "immensely powerful in the Force]. Kyp at his peak should dwarf his JA self, too.
Apologies for the formatting, on my shitty mobile phone atm.
In G-canon, we have Lucas himself saying Vader was > Luke in the Force--in Legends, Luke mused Gethzerion could have wrecked him in the Force had he set his eyes on killing him, and Palpatine musing that Luke could become greater than Vader under his tutelage, indicating he wasn't quite > Vader at that time.
- Quote for Sedriss > Jerec? Still, doesn't overrule the myriad of quotes putting Sedriss far below Vader and more in line with Ventress.
- I mean that's good for Kun, but as I said, Kyp power grew after every hardship he faced per the Databank [while becoming "immensely powerful in the Force]. Kyp at his peak should dwarf his JA self, too.
Apologies for the formatting, on my shitty mobile phone atm.
- The EllimistLevel Five
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 8:33 pm
- Luke's practical power level in JA was not at the level it was at the end of DE (where he fought harder than he would fight until TUF). He was also losing to Gantoris, Desean, etc. His whole "fear of the dark side" thing, especially after Dark Empire, clearly had an impact on the way he used the Force.
- Luke didn't try to kill Kyp (IIRC he didn't even attack him), and he didn't notice or attack Kun.
- You cannot assume some sort of parity between TotJ and a hypothetical living JA Kun, not when Kun had undergone a massive draining ritual designed to make him "invincible" and at least some portion of thousands of years to practice, all while sitting on a massive dark side nexus. You can't even establish a comparison between TotJ and spirit JA Kun. Sith who come back to life tend to be more powerful than when they had died even without a massive draining ritual and thousands of years.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 8:41 pm
Beware the Sith wrote:Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Force, their duels are more than just about physical strength.
Jedi Battles wrote:Father and son were now equally strong with the Force and equally skilled with their lightsabers.
Return of the Jedi Comic wrote:On the Death Star, father and son grimly clash! Brutally, aggressively, Darth Vader brings his full strength and power against the younger man. But unlike the first time they dueled in the carbon-freezing chamber of Bespin's Cloud City, this is a battle of equals. The young Jedi has grown in the interim, and if there is any true advantage, it seems to have shifted to him.
Corran Horn claims that Luke's power doubled after Return of the Jedi due to the events of Dark Empire:
I, Jedi wrote:When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.
As for Sedriss:
Handbook 3: Dark Empire wrote:Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base.
Well yes, Kyp Durron obviously grew massively through to NJO. I'm just not convinced that makes up for TOTJ Kun >>>> JA Kun >> JA Kyp.
If we take into account how much dark side energy that Kun's inferior in Ragnos required to return his spirit to full strength, to the point he could be physically resurrected, then Kun with nothing but lingering power from the focal points of Yavin IV's temples and the latent energy from the negative emotions of just Kyp Durron doesn't even begin to compare. Ragnos required the dark side nexuses of Yavin IV's temple, Byss, Dagobah, etc. You can begin to see how ridiculous the power gap is now.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Exar Kun vs. Kyp Durron
September 22nd 2019, 9:04 pm
The Ellimist wrote:
- Luke's practical power level in JA was not at the level it was at the end of DE (where he fought harder than he would fight until TUF). He was also losing to Gantoris, Desean, etc. His whole "fear of the dark side" thing, especially after Dark Empire, clearly had an impact on the way he used the Force.
- Luke didn't try to kill Kyp (IIRC he didn't even attack him), and he didn't notice or attack Kun.
- You cannot assume some sort of parity between TotJ and a hypothetical living JA Kun, not when Kun had undergone a massive draining ritual designed to make him "invincible" and at least some portion of thousands of years to practice, all while sitting on a massive dark side nexus. You can't even establish a comparison between TotJ and spirit JA Kun. Sith who come back to life tend to be more powerful than when they had died even without a massive draining ritual and thousands of years.
1.Source for DE Luke > JA Luke, because literally all indications say the opposite.
2.Luke tried to counter Kyp before Kun intervened, not that this is even the main point of contention.
3.The draining ritual has been explained to you and made abundantly clear:
"A powerful, but single entity, Kun could not hope to withstand the coordinated strike, so he hatched a plan with his remaining Massassi, chaining himself to the focal points of the great pyramids he had constructed to collect dark energy. Sapping the Massassi' life-force as the Jedi assailed his stronghold, his final act of Sith sorcery infused his spirit within the temple."
"Kun knew the Jedi forces were coming. Alone, he could not possibly withstand the combined Force powers of the Jedi--but he had one last plan to launch. Kun gathered the remaining Massassi into the Great Temple and chained himself at the focal points of the pyramids. Exar Kun drained the power from all of his loyal Massassi slaves, triggering a final wave of Sith sorcery that liberated his spirit and preserved it inside the giant structures."
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