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Ziggy
Ziggy

Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? Empty Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ?

on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:19 am
Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? 3750555731
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin

Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? Empty Re: Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ?

on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:34 am
Aayla*
Ziggy
Ziggy

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:38 am
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Aayla

I agree
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:42 am
@Ziggy wrote:
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Aayla

I agree
I was just correcting the spelling. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with you, lol
NotAA3
NotAA3
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:14 am
Caedus stomps.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:06 pm
Caedus when amped by his child being in danger can’t ragdoll a weaker version of the character Aalya stalemated.

She wins
Jake
Jake

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:39 pm
Lets have this debate again.

Aayla stomps.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:07 pm
Caedus one shots. What’s happening on this forum? Even taking the Aurra fight into account , peak Caedus is far, far more powerful than tempest Caedus.
HellfireUnit
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:17 pm
Caedus trashes her into oblivion.
Greysentinel365
Greysentinel365

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:55 pm
@MasterCilghal wrote:Caedus one shots. What’s happening on this forum? Even taking the Aurra fight into account , peak Caedus is far, far more powerful than tempest Caedus.

Proof Caedus grows?
LadyKulvax
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:59 pm
He's stated to grow literally every day.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:08 pm
@Greysentinel365 

Caedus is stated to have experienced a substantial growth after he killed Mara, similar to other characters before 
him: 

Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? Af61f610
-From the essential reader’s companion 
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:11 pm
Did that quote just give Caedus the Emperor's military-wide battle meditation?
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:14 pm
Yeah, and that’s insane. But obviously Ayla can do the same.
Jake
Jake

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:19 pm
Of course he grows, but this wasn’t base Tempest Jacen. He’s stated to be amped by fear for his daughter, hatred, anger, is “opening himself fully to the Force”, and continues drawing off rage during the lightsaber duel.

He even notes pre-fight he’s never wanted to hurt anyone as much as Aurra since the Vong war. Jacen is definitely in a heightened state. Prove his growth not only makes up for the gap between drunk LOTF Aurra and PT Aurra, but also his many amps.
Jake
Jake

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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:37 pm
19 BBY Aayla >>> 22 BBY Injured Aayla ~ Prime Aurra >>> LOTF Aurra ~ Rage!Tempest Jacen
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:46 pm
JediJuice wrote:Of course he grows, but this wasn’t base Tempest Jacen. He’s stated to be amped by fear for his daughter, hatred, anger, is “opening himself fully to the Force”, and continues drawing off rage during the lightsaber duel.

He even notes pre-fight he’s never wanted to hurt anyone as much as Aurra since the Vong war. Jacen is definitely in a heightened state. Prove his growth not only makes up for the gap between drunk LOTF Aurra and PT Aurra, but also his many amps.
The presence of his daughter Allana was the source of his empowerment, but was also a major hindrance. The novel makes it clear he never drew on the dark side and he could never unleash his full strength because Allana kept getting in his way. And even he won. 


Legacy of the force:Tempest wrote:That was when the door to the refresher hissed open, and a pair of small gray eyes peered out. They were wide open and locked on Jacen with an expression that might have been awe or fear or both.
"No, Allana!" Jacen could not bring himself to release the Force lightning while she was watching; even if Tenel Ka had not yet taught her that the dark side was evil, his own childhood training remained strongly enough ingrained that he did not want his daughter to see him using it. "Close the ..."
Jacen had to let the order trail off when Sing took advantage of his hesitation to leap at him

This actually happened twice, in both instances Sing took full advantage of his hesitation. It’s clear to me she wouldn’t have performed nearly as well as she did under normal circumstances.
Also, i’ve yet to see a single compelling and backed by quotes argument regarding Aurra being weaker in LOTF then during the empire when in the novel she specifically states “I specialize in jedi”.
Azronger
Azronger
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:48 pm
@MasterCilghal wrote:@Greysentinel365 

Caedus is stated to have experienced a substantial growth after he killed Mara, similar to other characters before 
him: 

Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? Af61f610
-From the essential reader’s companion 

My respect for Jacen has gone up immensely. Good find.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:50 pm
@Azronger wrote:
@MasterCilghal wrote:@Greysentinel365 

Caedus is stated to have experienced a substantial growth after he killed Mara, similar to other characters before 
him: 

Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? Af61f610
-From the essential reader’s companion 

My respect for Jacen has gone up immensely. Good find.
It isn’t exactly mine. I mean I was already aware of it, but DC and Ant deserve the credit for bringing it to my attention.
I never realized how important it was before.
Azronger
Azronger
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on Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:35 pm
@MasterCilghal Although, since the Emperor is long dead, and the quote doesn't specify unparalleled in history, it may just be saying Jacen's battle meditation ability are unparalleled in his time, much like the Emperor's was in his. I don't think it's comparing the respective magnitudes of Caedus and Palpatine's powers. It's still a good quote.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
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on Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:55 am
@Azronger Keep in mind this would place his battle meditation above Luke’s.
IG (Exists)
IG (Exists)
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Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ? Empty Re: Darth Caedus vs Ayla Secura ?

on Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:01 am
^ This thread is a serious mismatch.
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
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on Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:31 am
Jacen one shots.
IG (Exists)
IG (Exists)
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on Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:05 am
No he doesn’t, he stands still and Aayla dies because of his very presence.
Ziggy
Ziggy

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on Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:30 pm
@MasterCilghal wrote: peak Caedus is far, far more powerful than tempest Caedus.

Nah not really. 

I doubt he's even moderately more powerful. Just maybe a little. 

The quote from the "Essential" readers companion is being used facetiously. And what you're implying doesn't well reflect the events in the book which certainly doesn't indicate substantial growth :

Killing didn’t get any easier. He was just getting better at it. But it still didn’t make sense. He rubbed his cheek, and the stubble rasped audibly under his fingers. Mara hadn’t been the most precious thing in his life. In recent weeks, she’d changed from being his only friend to just someone else who didn’t trust him and was getting in his way.

She was his aunt. She was family. When his role in her death became known—it had to be when, but not now, not anytime soon—the shock and hatred would tear apart what was left of the Skywalker and Solo families. Maybe even Niathal, and all the others who understood that securing peace was a dirty business, would be disgusted. I just killed my aunt. I grew up with her. She was there for me. We fought a war together. I have to face her son. I have to face Ben. What have I done?

His stomach rumbled. How could he possibly be hungry at a time like this? 

He will immortalise his love.

Stupid knotted tassels, all kinds of ancient Sith prophecies that would come to pass when the new Dark Lord was ready to take up his mantle and usher in a golden age of justice, order, and peace. The key had been turned—and this was what the prophecy was supposed to mean—by Jacen killing what he most loved. He’d killed Mara, and Nelani, and Fett’s daughter, and chaotic unjust democracy, and he loved none of those. He’d tried to kill Lumiya more than once. She seemed to think that was part of the job description for Sith acolytes.

So Jacen didn’t believe it. And if Mara hadn’t been trying to kill him to begin with, he would have seen it even more as a life thrown carelessly away.

The fabric of existence didn’t seem to have changed enough. That shift should have been cataclysmic, and although he was too much of a pragmatist to think he could raise his fists to the sky and call down lightning to energise a mighty soul, he expected to be able to taste the spiritual and existential transformation.”

He was afraid. However certain he’d been a few hours ago that Mara was to be the one destined to die, it didn’t make sense in the context of the prophecy. He didn’t feel different, either. Did that mean he still had to kill someone else? He’d been so certain it would all be over now. The sense of anticlimax was almost enough to make him sob.

Then he felt a presence. He leaned his head against the side of the cockpit canopy, and gazing up at him from the nightmarish planet surrounding his fighter was Lumiya. Jacen popped the seal. “I’m surprised you could be bothered to come and find me, after what happened.” “You now need to be seen.” Lumiya had a new serenity about her. As ever, she still seemed to take no offense at him for trying to kill her again. “Your new existence has started, Dark Lord.” “Really?” The pain in his shoulder gnawed at him like an animal tearing his flesh.“I don’t feel very lordly.

“I assure you it’s done. I felt it.”

She might have been humoring him. He shifted in his seat to ease the assortment of bruises. " I'll be looking for further proof.” “Stop arguing with the Force and pay attention to what you have to do next.

- Sacrfice LOTF


Compare that with an actual power transformation brought upon killing a loved one : 

Thinking of Eleena blew oxygen on the embers of his anger. In life, Eleena had been his weakness, a tool to be exploited by rivals. In death, she had become his strength, her memory the lens of his rage.
He resided in the calm eye of a storm of hate. Power churned around him, within him. He did not feel as if he were drawing on the Force, using it. He felt as if he were the Force, as if he had merged with it.
He had evolved. Nothing split his loyalties any longer.

- Malgus : Decieved 

So I doubt there was a huge increase and doesn't prevent him from further comparisons to Aurra. Certainly, as Aurra isn't in her prime in Tempest. And Ayla is more powerful than that still. So the match-up here stands.  

As for his battle meditation, it's not anywhere near the point where he has the entire military unit under his thumb as Palpatine did. But rather he uses it to influence the outcome of separate battles as they happen in the same way Bastilla Shan could.  For two, Battle Meditation doesn't reliably scale with combat power.


Last edited by Ziggy on Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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