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HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

July 19th 2020, 6:02 am
Message reputation : 100% (4 votes)
Lost should not be in quotations. Dooku ran away for his life because he was going to die if he continued against both.

If Savage was able to simultaneously ragdoll AotC Yoda + Level Dooku and Ventress at the same time he's knocking on Sids doorstep. And most of the verse is screwed. This is hardly a negative on the Count. Before that Dooku was easily handling the duo. In fact he far surpassed their combined powers

Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress wage a combined attack against Dooku, whose abilities with the Force far surpass those of his apprentices.

http://www.starwars.com/video/dooku-vs-his-apprentices

Lest we forget, it was Dooku's tactics that caused Savage to berserk in the first place, an almost lethal error on the Count's part.

Ventress' taunts are what made him go nuts. Dooku never said a word to Savage. Nvm that Savage snapping the Nightsister brainwashing granted him unprecedented power that he never duplicated again. Dooku nor any really, had the ability to predict that.

It doesn't need to. Savage teamed up with Maul is more skilled and refined than the Savage Dooku faced.

There is zero evidence of Savage increasing in skill to any notable degree due to his training with Maul. At bare minimum Shadow Conspiracy confirms that Adi is more skilled than him. He's just got superior physicals.

As a duelist Maul is at least the equal of the Count

This is blatantly not true. Maul was stalemated for a protracted period of time by an unfocused TPM Obi-Wan, despite feeding off his rage, having an environmental advantage and a DS nexus to empower him.

Meanwhile Dooku is outright stated to be more skilled than Maul and easily dealt with a much more powerful AotC Kenobi + Yoda level flash of brilliance Anakin and then Yoda himself.

Maul's one on one performance against Palpatine is not something I imagine Dooku being able to replicate for as successfully.

Unless you can quantify the degree to which Sids was trying against Maul this is fruitless point. Sids is stated to "easily" defeat the brothers while "barely being tested" and "having fun the whole time"

Meanwhile an exhausted Dooku fought Yoda to the point of him being so exhausted that he can barely lift a pillar despite before being able to hold back an entire dam capable of washing away a whole town without much strain before.

I think it's the opposite actually.

I suggest looking through this thread for documentation of the Counts growth

Dooku only outright defeats a padawan Anakin.

This blatantly isn't true.

Their very first encounter on Tatooine after Geonosis ends with Dooku on his butt sitting on the dunes of Tatooine.

If you watched the actual duel instead of going off flawed youtube analysis you would know that Dooku molly whopped Anakin the whole fight. He deliberately let his guard down to show Anakin the hologram of Ahsoka in order to bait him into going after Jabba. Therefore denying the Republic any chance of an alliance with him. Even in the Novel Anakin states Dooku let him go

The 2nd duel on Naboo Dooku comes within a hair's breath of dying due to Anakin's overwhelming power and skill. Dooku saves himself by creating distance with Force Lighting.

Yet Dooku dismisses him with ease later in the S6 duel. Why? Well simply? It's because Palpatine was in the room. It really is just that simple.

Read up on the full explanation here

But even setting that aside, Dooku is hindered by being forced to guard Palpatine limiting his range of movement. He still consistently overpowers Skywalker even if it's with strain and finally, if you slow down the moment Dooku breaks out of Anakin's stranglehold Dooku actually overpowers him physically first, then shocks him. So the idea that he only won due to lightning is outright false. Dooku is also able to rise without a single sign of exhaustion afterwords, and then easily block Anakin from behind and overpower him again moments later.

Dooku is so arrogant that he thinks he can beat Anakin and Obi Wan. In ROTS he takes them both on and dies in less than 2 minutes.

At their base levels at that point Dooku can absolutely take on and beat them together. RotS has it's own set of circumstances that work against Dooku, mainly being drawn into using a portion of his reserves screwing with both of them, then being forced to use more while staying alive to recover from the surprise of sudden power increases. Once he recovered, Dooku incapacitated Anakin and Kenobi twice in quick succession and could have neatly finished off both if not for their new forms catching him off guard.

The final confrontation is Sidious vs Talzin and both Dooku and Maul are basically non factors. Particularly Dooku since he's been possessed by Talzin and is weakened. He's not much more than a spectator.

This is blatantly false as well if you've read the comic. Talzin are Sids are equals until Dooku adds his power on Sids side and they start pushing Talzin back. Maul then adds his power to Talzins and........ it does nothing.

So drained, half dead Dooku > SoD Maul.

Dooku vs Maul is debatable to me

It really isn't for me. I suggest reading through this thread for a full explanation of the Counts considerable feats and scaling
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

July 19th 2020, 6:38 am
GREYDOLLED
iamthatguy
iamthatguy

Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

January 26th 2021, 11:52 pm
Maul solos, easily.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

January 27th 2021, 12:15 am
Maul gets humiliated even worse than the time he was cucked by Kanan in Rebels.
iamthatguy
iamthatguy

Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

January 27th 2021, 12:23 am
Maul sends in his two mandos that captured Dooku in SoD.


Last edited by iamthatguy on January 27th 2021, 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

January 27th 2021, 12:31 am
@HeartoftheForce wrote:
@HeartoftheForce wrote:Savage is not making any difference here unless he's in brainwash mode. Trying to isolate the single instance of Savage landing one inconclusive hit and saying that means he wins is ignorant and ignoring Savages later inconsistencies. Despite apparently "growing stronger", Savage fails to replicate this feat with Kenobi, despite him being mentally hindered at the time, he failed to replicate this again on Florrum with either Adi or Kenobi, he failed to replicate this with Plo Koon, he failed to replicate this against Ventress, despite coming down from 7 feet above with all his weight in a full hammer blow. This is the same Ventress that Dooku can casually manhandle handle with strength. As a far the "bare" edge goes


Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress wage a combined attack against Dooku, whose abilities with the Force far surpass those of his apprentices.

http://www.starwars.com/video/dooku-vs-his-apprentices


Not really. Dooku far surpasses their combined powers. But let's be kind and say the two contradictory sources cancel each other out, we look at the source material itself.

Dooku easily dodges both Savage and Ventress' attacks, even when deprived of his lightsaber. The one fluke hit Savage lands is instantly negated by the Counts powers, he dodged the rest and it's made abundantly clear that the duo were on the verge of losing before Savage snapped. 

At no point was Dooku "barely" doing anything. He had a timely and effective answer for everything they had even saberless, the only blow landed was Opress' one hit which he has never replicated even against weaker opponents after supposedly growing stronger. So that leaves us with

1. Savage could only perform this ability whilst in a Nightsister trance or the massive Dark Rage amp caused by breaking said trance, where he possessed singular focus and control.

2. Savage can perform this again. But simply never does. In which case it's about as useful as bringing up Koon's electric judgement or Maul knowing lightning. It's pointless if it's clear in character they will never use it.

Once again, Dooku wins. He could, not once, but twice gain breathing room against Obi-Wan and Anakin via physical strikes and force attack, as our great friend ILS has said in this thread


ILS wrote:Styles make fights.

Maul's juyo leaves him vulnerable to counters the Count is more than happy to provide. Likewise if even Plo Koon can evade one of Savage's attacks and land a saber strike, Oppress is losing a limb here almost instantly. 

I mean hell, Kenobi was able to push the brothers back for a time in order to get an opening for escape and a weapon retrieval. 
Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Giphy
And likewise despite being stuck in a confined space between the two brothers was able evade all of their coordinated attacks while hitting Savage with impunity.

Dooku is more than capable of pulling that off.
Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 5816689-2023520061-54935
So no. Savage is not making any difference here. And Maul just loses.

Dooku wins.
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Dooku vs. Maul Brothers - Page 4 Empty Re: Dooku vs. Maul Brothers

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