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LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 18th 2019, 9:31 pm
@NotAA3 wrote:@LadyKulvax

It says it would be too simple an explanation, nor is Rakatan technology anything like normal technology.

Correction: It questions whether that would be too simple an explanation meaning that it's considering Malak's mask as an explanation for him having powers far greater than Nadd or Kun. If this was referring to the SF's militaristic might it wouldn't make any sense as Malak's metal jaw obviously can't be considered as the source for that.

The reference is the Star Forge, which is clearly capable of all those things. You've not proven it is a reference to personal power whatsoever.

I know what the quote is in reference to...
No, it says cybernetic enhancement could be too simple an explanation. Nor is your interpretation exactly helping your case, so you're telling me a form of cybernetic life-support is providing him Force powers far greater than Nadd or Kun? Being as literal as you are, that makes no sense either.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Six
Level Six

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 18th 2019, 9:33 pm
🇪🇭
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 18th 2019, 9:42 pm
That's What It Says wrote:He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?

Cory clearly didn't mean this to be contextually limiting given his own authorial context. It admits to being a poor explanation in the very quote. So if you admit that it is indeed a reference to the Star Forge then there's no reason to dismiss what Cory clarifies.
TenebrousWay
TenebrousWay

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 18th 2019, 10:11 pm
I would love to assume that Malak is far greater than Exar Kun - even without the Star Forge. The quote allows it.   Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 3344068304
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 18th 2019, 10:14 pm
You can try, but I'd destroy your every attempt. Par for the course. Malak is sub-Nihilus who is at best sub-Ragnos given the KotOR series source material. Kun scales far beyond Ragnos.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 19th 2019, 6:54 am
@TenebrousWay wrote:I would love to assume that Malak is far greater than Exar Kun - even without the Star Forge. The quote allows it.   :>

Yeah, I've made a case for that.

http://suspectinsight.forumotion.com/t516p50-star-forge-malak-v-exar-kun#10776
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 19th 2019, 12:50 pm
Kun. All the malak quote proves is SF! Malak > Vitiate
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on August 20th 2019, 3:01 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Vitiate scales above him.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 14th 2020, 11:17 pm
Who wins and why
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 12:34 am
Merged the threads

_________________
Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Sheev_sig_3
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 4:58 am
Tenebrae (The Sith Emperor) easily.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 5:18 am
Vitiate as of the second attempt on his life doesn't really stand a chance against Exar Kun. Clear victory for the original super-power of the old Sith wars era.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 5:42 am
Yeah, he killed 8 members of the Dark Council all by himself before having to confront Revan for the 2nd time. Members of the Dark Council are no stranger to the ways of Sith Sorcery. Scores of Sith outside are not either. If you ever check data mining sources (Russian usually), you will notice Force powers and capabilities directly attributed to scores of Sith of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire which WE have never heard about. The Old Republic Encyclopedia also reveal that these Sith developed new powers. I have seen Tentacle-type attacks on-screen as well.

Revan's super-attack failed to damage him as well which would have been sufficient to one-shit even a member of the Dark Council. Revan was saved by T3-M4 and Meetra Surik respectively.

Exar Kun have nothing on him.

Immortality is a defensive mechanism in itself - greatest form of it.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 6:35 am
Was any of that meant to impress me? Kun is quite drastically beyond those showings, be it through his feats/accolades in the NR era as a spiritual being or the feats attained given his showings against the massively powerful Ossus-amped Ood Bnar who he faced whilst majorly pre-prime.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 7:02 am
@LadyKulvax wrote:Was any of that meant to impress me? Kun is quite drastically beyond those showings, be it through his feats/accolades in the NR era as a spiritual being or the feats attained given his showings against the massively powerful Ossus-amped Ood Bnar who he faced whilst majorly pre-prime.

Based on what exactly?

Please do not mention Ood Bnar; Exar Kun utterly failed to destroy him and was rather sent back flying in another direction. Ood Bnar could draw on the power of a world (Ossus) to his advantage, to defend himself as well as to attack an opponent. He met his match in Executor Sedriss centuries later - Palpatine's most learned dark side adept outside Darth Vader.

Each member of the Dark Council was among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy at any point in time (ignoring heavy deterioration which would come with age due to heavy practices of the dark side in private). This becomes apparent when Meetra Surik confronts one on Dromund Kaas and is almost overwhelmed by her only for Revan to intervene and save her in the right moment. Meetra Surik is officially counted among the greatest of the Jedi ever and particularly noted for defeating Darth Traya in single combat on Malachor V. And Darth Traya could one-shot members of the Jedi High Council in turn.

Revan and Tenebrae being able to one-shot a member of the Dark Council, is testament to their respective ACTUALIZED POWERS. These two are like OUTLIERS among all Force-users throughout history. Both are far more powerful than the likes of Executor Sedriss to begin with.

What is next? Exar Kun was the chosen one and The Father needed him to keep The Son and The Daughter under control on Mortis?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 7:32 am
1.Ood Bnar channeled the power of the planet to attack Kun and Kun gets up almost immediately afterwards, despite being off-guard:

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Ula59710
Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Eelofo10

The Official Star Wars Fact File #119 wrote:Ood was defeated in combat, but had one last trick Kun had not anticipated.

2.Sedriss didn't match Ood Bnar whatsoever. First of all, Ood had weakened because of intense radiation:

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Screen12

Secondly, Ood affirms he is a greater master of the Force and states Sedriss was trying and failing to kill him, and is also stated to sacrifice himself and was solely responsible for both of their deaths per the highest source on the matter The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia:

Dark Empire II Audio Drama wrote:Ood Bnar: GET BACK SKYWALKER! THIS EVIL ONE IS TRYING TO KILL ME! BUT I AM A GREATER MASTER OF THE FORCE THAN HE!

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.

[...]

The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar.

Ood Bnar without Ossus was already stated to possibly be wielding the most useful wisdom in Star Wars, specifically because of his experience with Force use:

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Screen53

Which sounds about right given he's specifically drawing on an immense advantage. That being centuries of intense study into Sith magic and the dark side of the Force, which allowed him full knowledge of the weaknesses inherent in both:

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Screen54

And with the prime iteration of Ossus he's channeling living Force energy strong enough to mitigate ten supernova waves that are more devastating than anything the galaxy had seen:

The Unlikely Survival of Ossus Codex Entry wrote:Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.

Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction? Could the unique astrophysical structure of the Adega system where Ossus is found have played a role?

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Rwwwuy10

Yeah, I think I'll take Ood Bnar. Thanks.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 7:39 am
Ood Bnar had much time to recover from his exposure to significant amount of radiation (many centuries). Much heals in time unless there are persistent efforts to the contrary.

Ood is not that strong on his own - he could draw on the power of the planet itself to withstand developments which would have eliminated other living beings. Why do you think Exar Kun left Ossus?

Nobody scale from Ood in that respect. WE can say that the planet offered him exceptional level of protection against environmental hazards and even cosmic hazards but even this had limits as proven by Executor Sedriss.

Yes, Ood thought lesser of Executor Sedriss only to be eliminated by him in the exchange. Silly point.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 7:58 am
1.No, the quote says Master Bnar, however, survived the intense radiation rained on the world's surface and, nearly four thousand years later, was still able to assist Skywalker and Solusar in their struggle against Executor Sedriss which clearly means that this was a permanent effect on him.

2.Good thing it literally says Ood attacked Kun with power drawn from the depths of Ossus which is exactly what he does to summon a Force shield to protect himself.

3.Exar Kun left because there's no need for him to stay. Literally none at all.

4.The planet is the source of power from which he summons a Force shield to protect himself from the attack. Literally the same power he uses to attack Exar Kun. Your point?

I just proved everything you said about Sedriss wrong. Ood is factually superior to him. Your claim was false.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 8:29 am
Exar Kun invaded Ossus to recover numerous artifacts from Ood Bnar only to fail in this mission. He left Ossus because it was about to be burned by the incoming waves of supernova, not your excuse for him.

Even if Ood was better than Executor Sedriss, it does not change the fact that the latter took him out. This is an accomplishment of Sedriss.

Exar Kun had his shot and failed. If he is as strong as you make him out to be, he should have eliminated prime Ood but he couldn't. His limits were clearly established in this situation.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 8:41 am
He literally left Ossus with 'more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use' so how exactly did he fail? Yes, he left because there was nothing more for him to take and certainly not anything worth stranding himself on the planet for.

Sedriss was trying to take him out but Ood destroy both Sedriss and himself to save Luke's girlfriend of the week.

Exar Kun had his shot and Ood used a power Kun wasn't prepared to protect against, channeled from the core of Ossus. Then Kun just gets up before going off to grow vastly more powerful.

Your points have fallen apart, Ood is on a level of power that Vitiate as of the second assassination attempt has yet to replicate but Kun pre-prime walked off a full blast of his power without any preparation and believing he'd already won.

Exar Kun wins.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 8:50 am
So Exar Kun extracted some knowledge from Ossus and this help your argument in what sense exactly? He attempted to recover artifacts from Ood Bnar as well, only to fail in this case.

My contention is that Exar Kun versus Ood Bnar establish nothing significant for Exar Kun. This cannot be used to hype him because this is one of his failures. Exar Kun does not scale from Ood Bnar in his dug-in tree form. This is useless argument. The blast of power which sent Exar Kun packing is not quantifiable. WE only know that Ood could draw power from Ossus to do the needful which could be like 2% at the time?

Kun was not in the position to test Ood further, or gave up. He had to leave Ossus before it would be too late for him.

Other than that, Exar Kun have never managed to defeat an entire council of some of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy - he was never tested to this extent by other Sith.

You have not produced a quantifiable argument in your responses.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on June 15th 2020, 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 9:22 am
First of all, he was trying to steal ancient Jedi lightsabers. When Ood was completely outmatched by Kun in any combative sense he retaliated by initiating his metamorphosis. Kun was completely unprepared for this. Ood literally summoned a shield that could tank ten supernova waves afterwards. Kun didn't fail because he lacked power, he failed because he got taken by surprise and Ood summoned what might be the strongest Force shield ever.

You're trying to imply ambiguity where there is none, Ood has the chance to avenge Odan-Urr, Vodo-Siosk Baas and the systems about to be destroyed as well as eliminate the greatest threat to life in the galaxy. There's literally no basis whatsoever to assume that Ood wouldn't have tried to kill or at least sever Force Exar Kun with the opening he had. He couldn't and thus Kun brushed off his attack. Kun afterwards goes to Yavin IV and gains much more power there.

Exar Kun doesn't need a feat of killing a Dark Council with extensive preparation that Drew Karpyshyn confirmed he can't replicate any time he likes. He has actual, usable combat feats.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 11:22 am
@LadyKulvax wrote:First of all, he was trying to steal ancient Jedi lightsabers. When Ood was completely outmatched by Kun in any combative sense he retaliated by initiating his metamorphosis. Kun was completely unprepared for this. Ood literally summoned a shield that could tank ten supernova waves afterwards. Kun didn't fail because he lacked power, he failed because he got taken by surprise and Ood summoned what might be the strongest Force shield ever.

You're trying to imply ambiguity where there is none, Ood has the chance to avenge Odan-Urr, Vodo-Siosk Baas and the systems about to be destroyed as well as eliminate the greatest threat to life in the galaxy. There's literally no basis whatsoever to assume that Ood wouldn't have tried to kill or at least sever Force Exar Kun with the opening he had. He couldn't and thus Kun brushed off his attack. Kun afterwards goes to Yavin IV and gains much more power there.

Exar Kun doesn't need a feat of killing a Dark Council with extensive preparation that Drew Karpyshyn confirmed he can't replicate any time he likes. He has actual, usable combat feats.

What Exar Kun was trying to steal from Ood Bnar is the CONTEXT behind their confrontation; WHY they fought each other.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that Kun established his superiority over Ood in normal form. However, Kun wasn't strong enough to ONE-SHOT him even in this situation. Ood had sufficient opening to pull off his metamorphosis, and then the tide shifted. Now Kun found himself on the receiving end and decided to forfeit.

Ood's post-metamorphosis performance (vs. Kun) is not a quantifiable showing for Kun. WE do not know to what extent Ood drew from the power of Ossus to overwhelm Kun in this moment. There is no percentage defined for this matter.

If you assume that by drawing power from Ossus to the maximum extent, the best Ood could manage was to merely send Kun flying backwards some meters and nothing else, then this is absolutely underwhelming and laugh-worthy assumption.

---

When Abeloth did something similar:

Abeloth had somehow managed to harness all, or close to all, the dark-side energy that permeated this world, and compress it into this one pitiable being. What had once been Tola Annax now contained unfathomable dark-side energy waiting to be released. It had been both a trick and a test. Had they attacked her, leaping into the pit and slicing her to ribbons with lightsabers, they would have been at the center of the explosion. No one would have survived - and they might not yet survive.

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Ascension

- and released that much energy, it was potent enough to reduce buildings to dust, wreck the entire region at large, and also triggered volcanic activity in the vicinity. There were substantial destructive effects. Every Jedi including Luke Skywalker had to flee in this situation or risk certain death.

---

Ood's attack produced nothing significant besides sending Kun packing away a few meters. This suggest that there would be a significant limit to how much energy Ood could draw from Ossus to use in offensive capacity as well as for his own protection without risking his own safety - could be like 1% or 2%? 

Ood might be risking his own safety by drawing much more energy for the needful. OR you want to say that Ood is the most powerful Force-user ever? So powerful that he can tank a supernova event but he met his match in OMNIPOTENT Kun? Does this make any sense?

Ood's ability to cope with a massive dosage of radiation of an ARTIFICIALLY CREATED supernova event while drawing from the power of Ossus is an unexplained artifact:

Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.

Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction? Could the unique astrophysical structure of the Adega system where Ossus is found have played a role?

Regardless of the reasons, the continued survival of Ossus offers the promise that its ancient mysteries may one day be unlocked.



Taken from SWTOR - Codex Entry - The Unlikely Survival of Ossus

It is something which cannot be quantified in conventional sense because the entire development had UNNATURAL ORIGINS. Adega system is particularly noted to have a unique astrophysical structure in the galaxy as well.

Perhaps the Jedi chose Ossus to store their artifacts for similar reasons? They knew something?

You should not draw conclusions from this development and use it to SCALE any character, let alone Kun. In no way or form, any character is equipped to deal with authentic cosmic threats of utmost destructive nature.

What is next? Kun could enter an authentic BLACKHOLE, endure its destructive forces and escape? This is not possible. Dovin Basal creations are virtually nothing in comparison to the real thing. Even Dovin Basal creations could obliterate anything thrown into them up to the size of a massive starship - probably more.

This is Star Wars fiction - not MARVEL fiction.

At most, a character could cheat death at the time of an extremely volatile event, and take another body for himself/herself.

---

Drew Karpyshyn does not get to decide how it happened; he is not the author of The Old Republic Encyclopedia. In his own work, Tenebrae summoned 8 members of the Dark Council in his chambers and killed them all. Lord Scourge learned about this development and informed Revan. Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 2266747095
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 7:35 pm
Kun already knew he'd won and hence was playing with Ood from the onset. In typical fashion. He had no idea the metamorphosis was possible but despite Ood having such an immense advantage, Kun didn't suffer from it. You portray this as a major feat when actually this was Ood pulling off an act of severe desperation.

You're claiming that Kun face-tanking Ood's attack is a 'laugh-worthy' assumption whilst you're using a feat for Vitiate that occurs off-screen. Pot meet kettle.

Ood's attack being centered on Kun specifically doesn't mean it lacks destructive potency, it merely means the majority of the power was directed on him.

Fact is, Ood out of desperation underwent hid metamorphosis and attacked an off-guard Kun with power he had drawn from the core of Ossus. Which is exactly what he does to summon a Force shield to tank the incoming supernova waves when there was destruction on a massive scale.

You're trying to appeal to astrophysical locale when it is clear that the supernova waves hit Ossus directly and literally ripped the planet open:

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:The shockwave burst apart across the galaxy, reaching the world of Ossus and rupturing it, destroying the Jedi library and thousands of teachings and artifacts. The Jedi were in disarray.

That Ood's shield wasn't instantly ripped apart and him reduced to ash, is insanely impressive by itself. But Ood did far more than that. He tanked the ten consecutive supernova waves whilst the planet was nearly destroyed and then tanked what would've been essentially endless radiation from the waves afterwards. It's only until centuries later that we see Ossus return to any sort of liveable state.

Simply put, Ossus was strong enough in the living Force that it mitigated the waves that destroyed entire planets around it and destroyed whole other systems. Ood was drawing on this energy source to shield himself as the power of the waves that got through ruptured the surface of the planet.

The same power was incapable of seriously injuring or debilitating Kun at all. Kun gets much more powerful after this occurs.

These are levels of power we do not see Vitiate displaying until centuries later.

Exar Kun still wins.
darthbane77
darthbane77

Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate - Page 2 Empty Re: Exar Kun vs Novel Vitiate

on June 15th 2020, 9:20 pm
Kun crumples into a ball and cries himself to death upon seeing the Emperor.
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