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lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 8th 2019, 7:13 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcXaicGvcvA  he was clearly beating them here. he can pretty much fight two kit fistos at the same time, while not using his full power, and still hold a superior hand on them.

we already know that dooku> mace windu, even as a jedi. something that is stated in this book at as well. this is simply hype talk. plus, this hype talk means kriff, since we still see yoda beating him.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 8th 2019, 7:21 pm
 he was clearly beating them here. he can pretty much fight two kit fistos at the same time,
You do see them fighting him one at a time at the point where you're saying he's beating them, right? He's constantly knocking one back to deal with the other. When they fight together, they drive him back and leave him breathing heavily. 



while not using his full power,

Proof? 



and still hold a superior hand on them.

Individually, yes. Together, no.


we already know that dooku> mace windu, even as a jedi. something that is stated in this book at as well. this is simply hype talk.
Something that you've still yet to substantiate. Pretty sure I've asked you to do so in another thread.



plus, this hype talk means kriff, since we still see yoda beating him.

And I never said the Outlander > Yoda, lol. I said that the accolade doesn't apply to the Outlander and the Outlander is not only more powerful than Dooku (by a fair margin, actually) but is also as skilled if not more so.
 
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 8th 2019, 9:57 pm
1. u can see him fighting them at the same time once or twice man. it shows that he can do so, even if for just what, 3 seconds? u wanna tell me that arcann can last more than against two kit fisto lvl fighters in sabers only? and i dont see him breathing heavily, but i do see him catching his breath. 

2. no red eyes, i believe, no use of the force iirc, no sign of emotion, he does not want to kill kenobi nor harm him, AND and he cannot even heavily harm anakin, per sheev's orders. labyrinth of evil talks addresses this i think. he only went all out against anakin in the IH i believe.

3. no he was still besting them even when they were together. 5.

4. u have. i thought i told where it was from, but ill post it here again. i think its from dark rendezvous. "Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!" His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away. "Our great student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then drooped. "Our great failure."
 ^ he compares dooku to the other jedi in the room, and says that he is the best in the mentioned categories. mace windu was there, alongside a bunch of other council members. we know he is talking about jedi dooku just by reading what he says there. this story also takes place in 19 BBY (early 19 BBY tho), and the anakin he also compares dooku to is TCW anakin as well (this happens in the previous paragraph. idk if u wanted to post that as well). so yeah, jedi dooku> TCW anakin as well. NOW, I ACTUALLY DO NOT THINK THAT JEDI DOOKU> 19 BBY MACE WINDU, BUT IT SHOWS THAT THE POWER IS NOT FAR OFF AT ALL FROM BOTH OF THEM. hence why i think most people believe that windu only surpassed dooku in the end years of 19 BBY, or ROTS. legends seems to make this somewhat obvious imo, but opinions and butts, each person has their own.

5. i still dont see the outlander being more powerful than dooku either. he is clearly comparable tho, thats obvious. but sabers? i still dont see it. BUT if u can make a good case for him, i could be swayed.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 8th 2019, 10:52 pm
1. u can see him fighting them at the same time once or twice man. it shows that he can do so, even if for just what, 3 seconds? u wanna tell me that arcann can last more than against two kit fisto lvl fighters in sabers only? and i dont see him breathing heavily, but i do see him catching his breath. 

Yes, Arcann can last more than 3 seconds against both in sabers, lol.


2. no red eyes, i believe,
What? 



no use of the force iirc,
They didn't give him enough room to.


no sign of emotion,
AKA Dooku's usual M.O.



he does not want to kill kenobi nor harm him,
> Kicks Obi-Wan off a ledge then attacks Anakin while he's trying to save Obi-Wan.
> Not trying to hurt or kill Obi-Wan.


AND and he cannot even heavily harm anakin, per sheev's orders.
Wrong.



labyrinth of evil talks addresses this i think. he only went all out against anakin in the IH i believe.

No, Sheev told him to test Anakin in their ROTS duel, then Dooku cut loose when Anakin was kicking his arse.


3. no he was still besting them even when they were together. 5.

The fact that he was retreating and breathing heavily suggests otherwise.


4. u have. i thought i told where it was from, but ill post it here again. i think its from dark rendezvous. "Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!" His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away. "Our great student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then drooped. "Our great failure."
 ^ he compares dooku to the other jedi in the room, and says that he is the best in the mentioned categories. mace windu was there, alongside a bunch of other council members. we know he is talking about jedi dooku just by reading what he says there. this story also takes place in 19 BBY (early 19 BBY tho), and the anakin he also compares dooku to is TCW anakin as well (this happens in the previous paragraph. idk if u wanted to post that as well). so yeah, jedi dooku> TCW anakin as well. 

Yoda didn't consider Mace a student at this point. To Yoda, Mace was a peer. If we assumed that this isn't what he meant, then Dooku also > Yoda.



 NOW, I ACTUALLY DO NOT THINK THAT JEDI DOOKU> 19 BBY MACE WINDU, BUT IT SHOWS THAT THE POWER IS NOT FAR OFF AT ALL FROM BOTH OF THEM.
Prime Mace (>)> Dooku ~ TCW Mace > AOTC Mace >/~ Jedi Dooku ~ TPM Mace > pre-TPM Mace.



hence why i think most people believe that windu only surpassed dooku in the end years of 19 BBY, or ROTS. legends seems to make this somewhat obvious imo, but opinions and butts, each person has their own.

Most people agree with this except the ones still throwing around Silver's Mace being amped argument like it's the be-all-end-all of Mace vs Sidious.


5. i still dont see the outlander being more powerful than dooku either. he is clearly comparable tho, thats obvious.
Prime Outlander > end of KOTET Outlander > unchained Vaylin > KOTET chapter 8 Outlander. Unchained Vaylin's Force feats are so beyond Dooku's that it's not even funny. 




but sabers? i still dont see it. BUT if u can make a good case for him, i could be swayed.

The only reason people hold the PT above people like Malgus, Arcann, Revan, etc. is because of a few Lucas quotes about it being their prime and it having a lot more sources suggesting that. The Outlander has just as good, if not better combat feats as Dooku. Name a single skill feat Dooku has performed (by which I mean against fodder, combatants, warriors, etc), and I can all but guarantee that the Outlander has either replicated it or scales above someone who has.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 9th 2019, 12:08 am
i like to think of dooku in a very simple fashion, if that makes sense. i put yoda at more or less twice (likely 3 times) as strong as him, and not much at all more skilled than him in sabers, as far as AOTC dooku goes. he supposedly grew in power enough that sheev needed to keep his eyes on him. i suppose this shows when we see him doing pretty well against anakin, even if he was still losing. 

i feel like yoda is overrated in this fight. while he is obviously superior to dooku, he did have a smaller size, was stronger in the force, more experienced, was faster, and was more skilled, and dooku still could hold his own. this is honestly the only (maybe) reason why i put dooku so high tbh. dooku then got substantially stronger and more skilled by ROTS (him fighting anakin, who is a legit yoda/sheev lvl duelist, before he decided to go all out (which i think happened after he dun moch'd anakin) shows this pretty well, i believe). sheev and yoda are considered to be the best duelists in both sides (light and dark) by pretty much everybody, so him fighting anakin who is within their tier also makes me believe that he above the outlander.

TPM era jedi dooku (considered a threat by plagueis; sheev decided to take him as his apprentice just cuz of how good he was with a blade, which makes me think that he is clearly within sheev's lvl by that point; better than mace, stronger than him as well, more skilled, better in the force, as learned as yoda in it too)<<< AOTC dooku (kenobi said that he completely outclasses TPM maul; could fight yoda while being completely outclassed in almost all relevant categories; yoda called his power legit, i believe; semi matched him in sabers; called one of the strongest force users ever born; infinitely above his jedi self, who was called one of the strongest jedi to have ever existed)<(<) ROTS/prime dooku (supposedly a good deal stronger than before; could fight anakin who was called like, a dozens times to be arguably the strongest jedi ever (not the case, as yoda is stronger than him, but goes to show u how karking high his power is); completely above ROTS kenobi in both sabers and in the force; around, if not just below sedriss lvl, who thought he could give DE luke a good fight)

that right there is pretty much my thinking process. idk if he has replicated all of that kriff above (i think he has easily replicated half of it, but idk much about him at all), so ill be waiting for ur response.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 9th 2019, 5:15 pm
Llorenzo.r.2nd wrote:
i feel like yoda is overrated in this fight. while he is obviously superior to dooku, he did have a smaller size, was stronger in the force, more experienced, was faster, and was more skilled, and dooku still could hold his own. this is honestly the only (maybe) reason why i put dooku so high tbh. dooku then got substantially stronger and more skilled by ROTS (him fighting anakin, who is a legit yoda/sheev lvl duelist, before he decided to go all out (which i think happened after he dun moch'd anakin) shows this pretty well, i believe). sheev and yoda are considered to be the best duelists in both sides (light and dark) by pretty much everybody, so him fighting anakin who is within their tier also makes me believe that he above the outlander.


”Dooku could hold his own”
 I didn’t know 40 seconds of duelling equals ”hold his own”
But i guess. You learn something new everyday.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 3:36 am
I was hoping that by the time I got back to this thread there would be arguments for Dooku that are actually meaningful. What a shame.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 3:47 am
@BreakofDawn Are you willing to back up Dooku vs Windu in a debate?


Last edited by Meatpants on December 10th 2019, 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
HellfireUnit
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 3:49 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
I was hoping that by the time I got back to this thread there would be arguments for Hord that are actually meaningful. What a shame.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 8:47 am
him fighting arguably the second best duelist ever is not good argument, ur right.
EmperorCaedus
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 10:14 am
Dooku wins
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 10:39 am
@Meatpants wrote:@BreakofDawn Are you willing to back up Dooku vs Windu in a debate?
Depends which Dooku and which Mace.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 11:10 am
BreakofDawn wrote:
@Meatpants wrote:@BreakofDawn Are you willing to back up Dooku vs Windu in a debate?
Depends which Dooku and which Mace.


Rots Dooku rots Made
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 11:28 am
Frankly, I'm tired of defending ROTS Mace against the same stuff so I'd really rather not.
LadyKulvax
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 10:00 pm
So instead of the same old Khem Val quotes, Kreia quotes, Darth Nihilus proto-scaling and Jedi Exiles stuff. I'm going to put up probably the most credible Tulak Hord argument. Because the idea he's featless is cancer.

Hord's greatest rival was Lord Kallig, who he had killed prior to going on his conquering of the Dromund system where he became much more powerful:

Darth Zash, SWTOR wrote:
[size=34]"This artifact is one of five that together describe a peculiar ritual used by the great Tulak Hord when he conquered the Dromund system."[/size]


[size=34]"These artifacts will change everything, apprentice--you, especially. They will make you more powerful than you could imagine. I have foreseen it."[/size]





Star Wars the Old Republic wrote:At last you have gathered the fragments of Tulak Hord’s artifact and are ready to undergo the ritual. Darth Zash has promised that this ritual will give you great power, and that soon, the galaxy will kneel before you.


Lord Kallig's spirit, merely by being awoken, created a violent eletrical storm over the Dark Temple that lasted a week:


The Dark Temple Codex Entry wrote:[size=32]the [/size]temple[size=32] itself remained sealed until recently, when an expedition of power-hungry Sith Lords and their servants breached the gateway.[/size]
[size=32]The [/size]Dark[size=32] Council did not sanction this intrusion, nor did it punish the rogue Sith; [/size]no one returned from the expedition to punish.Violent electrical storms surrounded the temple for the first week after it was opened


Lord Allaric, SWTOR wrote:[size=32]"They awoke an ancient sith lord - Lord [/size]Kallig[size=32] - and their expedition plunged into madness."[/size]



Lord Kallig Codex Entry wrote:--and that the strange events in the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas have Kallig at their center.


When Aloysius woke up, he dominated all of the hundred-strong Sith and Imperials who entered:


The Spirit of Lord Kallig, SWTOR wrote:[size=31]"When the weaklings of this planet trespassed my tomb, I rose, resuming my former life. [/size]This temple became my kingdom, and I was once more a Lord of the Sith[size=31]."[/size]

Now under the illusion that they themselves were Sith Lords, the non-Force sensitives drew 'terrible' power from Kallig himself:


Lord Allaric, SWTOR wrote:[size=31]"His power overwhelmed all inside the [/size]temple[size=31], and even now workers plot wars against each other, believing themselves Sith Lords and [/size]drawing terrible power from Kallig himself.[size=31]"[/size]

In fact, the fractional power borrowed from Lord Kallig subdued the Dromund Kaas incarnations of Wrath and Darth Nox, to a degree they were very impressed with that power (Skip to 7:56):



At this point, Nox is already capable of defeating Khem Val, prior to killing a Terentatek with nothing but a training weapon and Force powers. Then killing the 'dangerously powerful' Darth Skotia:

Lord Zash, SWTOR wrote:[size=32]“Wretched monster. More machine than man and dangerously powerful.”[/size]

The Wrath killed the beast of Marka Ragnos, a massive millennia old Terentatek which was warped into a 'great source' of dark side energy by Marka Ragnos:

The Beast of Marka Ragnos Codex Entry wrote:Left to guard the tomb serving as the resting place for its master, Marka Ragnos, the beast has dwelled in darkness for centuries. Legend tells that Ragnos beat his pet nightly, warping it with the Force until it was a creature of pure hate and anguish.


Overseer Tremel, SWTOR wrote:[size=32]The beast of Marka Ragnos was a great source of [/size]dark[size=32] energy here on Korriban. [/size]When it was slain, there was a tremor in the Force[size=32]. Darth Baras felt that termor and has become aware of you. He demands an audience.[/size]

But the fact is, this incarnation of Lord Kallig's spirit had suffered from having its already weakened form being drained constantly by Tenebrae for 1,300 years:

SWTOR: Encyclopedia wrote:Burial place, prison, and reliquary, the Dark Temple was built on the orders of the Emperor to seal away powerful artifacts and the Emperor's enemies, both alive and dead. The temple became a nexus of dark side energy as the Emperor performed rituals within, drawing strength and knowledge from his captives.

TL;DR: Tulak Hord >> Lord Kallig >>>> Spirit of Lord Kallig ~ causing a week-long violent electrical storm just by waking up >>> essentially subduing DK!Nox & DK!Wrath with 'impressive' Force powers.

Now I'm not saying this means he wrecks Dooku or anything, but the idea Tulak Hord gets stomped is pure cancer.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

on December 10th 2019, 10:12 pm
never said he gets stomped either.
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Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku - Page 2 Empty Re: Tulak Hord vs Count Dooku

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