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HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 8:59 am
Standart rules

All out

Who wins and why?
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 9:04 am
Voiciate stomps
Reynard (Ethanion)
Reynard (Ethanion)

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 10:19 am
Message reputation : 100% (6 votes)
Jerec wins. It’s simple, he’s infinitely more powerful, and his combative mastery blows Vitiate out of the water.

Power:

The Draining of the Valley of the Jedi.

A Volatile Nexus:

The Valley of the Jedi is a powerful, incredibly volatile lightside force-nexus only a madman would dare to tap into. It was so strong and so hard to control, that even after it was drained of its spirits, it remained a powerful psychic bloodstain. These bloodstains are incredibly potent areas in the force, an example of one being the remnants of Palpatine’s evil over Endor.

The Valley of the Jedi is soaked with the power of hundreds upon hundreds of Force-sensitives in a state of limbo. But the balance created between light and dark is immensely volatile, and only a fool or a madman would try to tap into it. Even after the spirits were freed, the death of so many Force-users there left a psychic bloodstain in its wake, and the valley still pulses with power.
-The Dark Forces Saga Part 6

The combination of the Sith and Jedi souls made a potent mixture. Together, they formed a balance in the Force that resulted in a powerful light side center.
-The Official Star Wars Fact File 129

Jerec versus Voiciate Bloods10
-Star Wars Gamer 9

The Power of the Valley:

The power of the Valley of the Jedi is limitless and beyond imagination, sufficient to make oneself invincible, to gain absolute omniscience, to destroy a star with a whisper, and much more.

You’ll either protect the Valley of the Jedi from Jerec, or try to take the Valley’s limitless power for yourself.
-Dark Forces 2 Game Manual

Gathering a cadre of Dark Jedi, Jerec sought out the valley of the Jedi on Ruusan, hoping to use its power to make himself invincible.
-The Official Vehicles and Starships Collection 27

Ultimately, all of Jerec's pupils were killed by the Jedi Kyle Katarn, but the price was worth the reward. Jerec at last gained access to the valley, and for one lucid moment, absolute omniscience was his. The will of the Force, Chaos, the ancient civilizations of the Rakata and Xim, what lay beyond the galactic barrier, and the origins of the universe - - Jerec understood them all, and endowed with Force powers beyond imagination, he would have ruled accordingly.
However, during this rapturous illumination, Kyle used an ancient Force technique to sever Jerec's connection to the Force with a wall of pure light. Kyle then proceeded to cut the Dark Jedi down, sending Jerec's soul screaming toward Chaos alongside the Sith spirits of a thousand years hence. Thanks to his enlightenment, Jerec was well aware of the torture without respite that awaited him there.
-The Dark Forces Saga Part 6

The human knew without being told that this was a place of death, a prison full of unreleased spirits, and a repository of unthinkable power. Power so vast, so terrible, that it could extinguish a sun, plunge an entire solar system into darkness, and condemn billions to death. But only if it fell into the wrong hands...
-Dark Forces 2: Rebel Agent

"A crossroads lies before you....The same man who murdered your father contemplates an even greater evil. His name is Jerec, and he seeks a place called the Valley of the Jedi, a place where thousands of Jedi spirits are trapped, a place of almost unbelievable power, a place he must never reach. Because if he does - the results could be catastrophic. Imagine someone who could destroy a star with a whisper, eradicate a solar system with a snap of his fingers, or `think' a planet from its orbit.
-Dark Forces 2: Rebel Agent


A Sentient Nexus:

The spirit of an individual Jedi Master when connected to the Valley had more power than Yun, and could rip his very soul from his body had Yun not learned a technique to resist such a thing. The technique also involves conceding to the Jedi spirit that they have won, tricking them, soothing them.

The spirit seized the tendril of being that linked Yun to his physical body. The Jedi felt a tug - followed by sustained pressure. The entity was trying to pull him out!

The Jedi attempted to withdraw and discovered that he wasn't able to do so. The other entity's hold was too strong. Fear clutched his belly, his mouth opened, and nothing emerged. It was at the very height of his fear that the voice spoke within.

"Don't surrender to doubt, my son. Use the same technique you learned earlier. He's stronger, that's all. Even Jedi Masters can lose their sanity after a thousand years of confinement. Anchor your mind, reach out, and understand. The Force will protect you."

Yun swallowed, was glad to discover that he had that much control, and took the risk. Rather than continue his efforts to withdraw, he pushed outward. The entity sensed victory and rushed in. Yun welcomed the spirit, not into his body, but into the warmth of his understanding and the hope of freedom. The ancient was too far gone to be healed, not by a mind so junior, but allowed itself to be soothed.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

The Valley of the Jedi consists of dozens of thousands of deceased Jedi and Sith, and they all try to resist Jerec, the “chorus” telling Katarn to free them. Despite the power even a single Jedi Master brought to bear, to Jerec they are still a chorus of weakness, one that he could ignore. Yun’s ability to resist the spirit that attacked him is irrelevant here, as obviously the spirits are aware of what is going on, and of what they need to do.

The Jedi jumped, fell through the air, and absorbed the impact with his legs. His lightsaber sizzled as he turned it on. “Yessss,” the chorus chanted, “free us that we might merge with the Force!” Jerec chose to ignore the lightsaber and the spirit voices. He spoke without turning. “Your efforts are misguided. Can you hear them? Whining and sniveling? Is that what you seek to become? Another voice in a chorus of weakness?”
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Draining the Nexus:

While draining the Nexus, it should be noted that Jerec is not dealing with a nicely packaged power source. The forces preventing the spirits departure have weakened over the centuries, so he has to target areas of leakage and make repairs to this container where necessary, to ensure he consumes as much energy as he possibly can.

He would have to be careful, however, very careful, since the forces that prevented the Jedi spirits from leaving the Valley had weakened with the passage of time and needed to be strengthened. An escape would be disastrous, since the power he required flowed from the prisoners. No need to worry, though, since repairs had begun and would soon be complete.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

The Jedi considered the officer’s words. Now that the Valley was under his control, Jerec was in no particular hurry. He needed time to prepare, but more than that, time in which to savor that which destiny had placed before him, much as a gourmet might linger over a rare and carefully prepared dessert.
There was leakage, though — leakage that could double or even triple his ability — and whet his appetite for more. The Jedi Master directed a thought outward, steered a circle around the cauldron of churning energy, and located a place where a steady stream of pitch-black energy had broken through the protective shell and strobed into space.

Jerec chose a single shaft of negative energy, drew on its power, and felt himself expand. Bigger and bigger until his mind was everywhere, until he was one with the dark inner fabric of the Force itself, until he stood on the very brink of what he perceived as being all-powerful.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Mastery Jerec gains over the Nexus:

Kyle stood, heart pounding, staring upward. What could he do? Jerec had claimed the Valley’s power, had already harnessed it, and would soon rule what remained of the Empire.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight
Putting it all together:

Jerec has to, in a relatively short period of time (between Kyle passing out after his duel with Maw, and Kyle waking up on Ruusan and confronting the Dark Jedi, so a matter of hours), completely drain and harness the nearly infinite power of the Valley of the Jedi (an incredibly volatile lightside force nexus only a madman would tap into), repair the forces keeping the Jedi spirits imprisoned, strategically target areas of leakage to ensure he gains as much power as possible and fight off the spirit tearing influence of dozens of thousands of trained force users united in their desire to be free from his control. His ability to do all of this is attributed to his power in the force.

He researched the existence of the legendary Valley of the Jedi, which he believed to be the repository of vast power, just waiting to be claimed by someone brave enough to unlock it and strong enough to control it.
-The Dark Side Sourcebook

Comparisons:

We can compare what happens with Jerec, to what happens when Valkorian channels his power through the Outlander. And it doesn’t look good, so terribly battered by the use of his power is the Outlander that he is clutching his chest, barely able to walk, and the people around him think he could be dying. He is a willing vessel, a vessel Valkorian can freely channel power through, and even with all the damage Valkorian causes, the power he manages to use is weaker than what he possessed in life. To become worthy of hosting Valkorian’s power, Valkorian must forge him into such a vessel, one with supreme power.

[url= https://streamable.com/us56og]Willing vessel damaged: [/url]
Outlander Fall:
Outlander Dying:
We Weren’t Sure You’d Ever Wake Up:
“An unexpected setback, but I learned much today. Father’s power has changed. It’s weaker.”
-Arcann to Vaylin, KOTFE Chapter 8

"You were an exemplary pawn--one I forged into a vessel of supreme power worthy of preserving my spirit. Now I take your body as my own, and rule once more as the Immortal Emperor."
-Valkorian to the Outlander, KOTFE Chapter 9

And this is how Jerec’s body handled the power in the Valley of the Jedi. Much better than how Outlander fares.

The Dark Jedi fought to break through and knew it was too late. The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed, and he, along with the rocks that had risen with him, plummeted to the ground.

Kyle opened his eyes, saw the Dark Jedi fall, and knew he had taken the correct approach. By doing something positive, by protecting Jerec from evil, the battle had been won. The ground under Kyle’s boots crunched as he approached the fallen Jerec.

Though stunned and badly bruised, Jerec was otherwise uninjured. In spite of his blindness, the Dark Jedi knew that Kyle stood over him with lightsaber in hand. His own weapon lay ten meters away — but may as well have been on the far side of the planet. Having never shown mercy to others, Jerec sought none for himself.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Jerec rejoiced in the agent’s stupidity, leaped to his feet, and thumbed the power switch. Energy crackled as he moved forward, and Kyle came to meet him. The Rebel spun on the ball of his right foot, executed what Tal called the “falling leaf” and “slashed from the sky.”
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Considering Vanilla Vitiate was beaten soundly by a base game Outlander who had “dissipated his energy saving the weak”, the fact that an Outlander with years of growth, noticeable to Valkorian, is such a comparatively impotent vessel to a source far less powerful, volatile, and far more willing to grant its power just goes to show how much stronger than Vanilla Vitiate Jerec really is.

The fight.

In summary:
Jerec in a matter of hours is able to consume an infinite power source and gain omniscience, a power source that is being protected by over 24000 minds in direct opposition to his consumption of them, with the ability to pull his very soul from his body. A volatile power source that only a madman would attempt to use.  The power he already possessed gave him the ability to control this power source, and the experience seems to have no ill effect on Jerec.
The Outlander allows Valkorian to channel power through him, and even though the amount he uses is lesser than Valkorian’s own (which is no comparison to the power of the Valley of the Jedi to begin with) the experience almost leaves Outlander dead. This Outlander has had years since his fight with the Voice, and still, he is an atom next to Jerec.

Combative Mastery:

Sense Abilities:
Jerec:

Jerec is able to sense Morgan Katarn, an ex-Jedi who successfully hid himself from Palpatine and Vader for 23 years. The source implies this means his senses are more attuned than Vader’s or Palpatine’s, and that this makes him an ‘awesome foe’.

Jerec versus Voiciate Jerec_10
Jerec versus Voiciate Awesom10
-The Official Star Wars Fact File 124

Continuing from that, what an incredible boon, Palpatine’s sense abilities were sufficient to detect every move of Darth Maul’s before he made them.

But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.
-Darth Maul, Shadow Conspiracy

Vitiate:
Vitiate’s sense abilities are less than optimal, considering how much effort he needs to put in to determine if Meetra is a threat, considering his complete failure to notice that a lightsaber was being sent flying his way, his inability to notice an astromech droid ready to shock him, and his inability to notice an attack from the Outlander. Also note Scourge’s ability to sense uncertainty and hesitation in the Emperor. We also can’t forget his failure to detect or adjust for Revan’s surprise attack.
Revan’s astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi’s lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds. Meetra was moving fast, but she was too far away to stop the Emperor from eviscerating the prone Jedi at his feet.

In desperation, she hurled her lightsaber with a wild sidearm throw, guiding it with the Force so that it spiraled end-over-end to intercept the descending blade, knocking it from the Emperor’s grasp and sending it skittering across the floor.

Suddenly empty-handed, the Emperor took a quick step back. His attention had been focused solely on Revan; Meetra’s trick had caught him by surprise. Scourge realized that if she had aimed at the Emperor instead of the blade, she could have ended his life even as he ended Revan’s. But her instincts to save her friend overrode her desire to kill her enemy, and Scourge could only lament the lost opportunity.
-Revan

Sensing hesitation and uncertainty in the Emperor as he tried to evaluate the strength and weaknesses of his new foe, Scourge rushed forward to join Meetra and Revan.
-Revan

Zap:
What?:

The Emperor stood in the exact same position as before; it was as if he hadn’t even moved. Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will: to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. This time, however, Revan was ready.

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

There was a brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan’s mind, was sent flying backward.
-Revan

Jerec’s Esoteric Abilities:

Jerec has a couple incredible abilities at his disposal, is very willing to use them, and both will basically annihilate an unprepared opponent.

To begin with; Darkshear, an ability that causes immediate decay of the body in an instant. And it’s an invisible attack.

Spore and all his servants opened their eyes and mouths. A forest of vinelike tentacles shot toward the dark-cloaked Imperial.
Jerec raised one hand. Tash felt a ripple of dark-side power flow from his fingertips. When Spore’s tentacles met the dark-side energy, they withered and died in midair.
Jerec snorted. “Your power is hardly a match for the dark side of the Force.” He cast an evil grin at Spore. “However, you have your uses.”
-Star Wars Galaxy of Fear: Spore

Finally in the rare event that the Sorcerers are threatened in a face to face confrontation, they have mastered an arcane technique for channeling the dark in a sustained, directed burst. A Darkshear strike causes the victim to suffer the cumulative damage of years of atrophy. Armor becomes rusted and brittle, power cells drain, and machinery jams. Individuals can age 30 years in an instant and individual body parts, a heart, a lung, a knee joint, might fail in the midst of battle.
-The Unknown Regions

There’s also this attack , which doesn’t fully match the description of any one ability, but is probably meant to represent Force destruction (even if it behaves like darkshear).

Regardless, abilities such as these would be most effective against someone who has lacking detection skills.

In conclusion:

Jerec is a vessel of supreme power for the Valley of the Jedi, powerful to such an extent that he can not only withstand the Valley, but control it. Vitiate is soundly beaten by a force wielder who then grows so powerful that he can’t handle the power Valkorian channels through him, can’t withstand it, much less control it. Jerec’s sense abilities are potentially beyond the likes of Darth Vader or Emperor Palpatine, and make him an awesome foe. Vitiate’s sense abilities allow him to almost die to a lightsaber throw from Meetra Surik, to be unsure of Meetra’s abilities, get shocked by a droid, fail to sense or adjust for Revan tapping into both streams of the force and get backstabbed by somebody in his line of sight not 30 seconds before. His ability to hide his own intentions from another’s senses allow him to reveal his emotions to Scourge . If Vitiate can’t see something he’ll get hit by it, and if he can see it he’ll forget about it and get hit by it anyways. Jerec’s abilities allow him to force aging upon a foe, force them to their knees and/or restrict movement, and he’s willing to use them. Vitiate’s abilities let him create doppelgangers of himself to be shocked by droids, and if he has anything else we’ve never seen it because he uses lightning and loses.
Jerec spanks Vitiate so hard it’s not even funny.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 10:48 am
power
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 6:48 pm
ethan ragdolling Jerec versus Voiciate 1019854026
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 10:48 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
DEBUNKING THE VALLEY OF THE JEDI YARDSTICK - 1/2

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:Jerec wins. It’s simple, he’s infinitely more powerful, and his combative mastery blows Vitiate out of the water.

WE shall see.

Nomenclatures in use:

Tenebrae [Original] = before NATHEMA
Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] = after NATHEMA
Tenebrae [VOICES] = after assassination attempt of Revan [Reborn]
Tenebrae [Valkorion] = after ZIOST

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
A Volatile Nexus:

The Valley of the Jedi is a powerful, incredibly volatile lightside force-nexus only a madman would dare to tap into. It was so strong and so hard to control, that even after it was drained of its spirits, it remained a powerful psychic bloodstain. These bloodstains are incredibly potent areas in the force, an example of one being the remnants of Palpatine’s evil over Endor.

Ever heard of the Dark Temple? Let me explain.

Hundreds of years ago, the Sith Emperor ordered the construction of the Dark Temple as a burial place for his dead and defeated enemies, “to aid them in becoming one with the Force.” Little is known of what rituals the Emperor performed there, but the Dark Temple has become a nexus of powerful dark side energy, and a place where ancient weapons and ancient secrets of the Sith lay sealed away in cavernous chambers.

Although the Dark Temple grounds have always been a dangerous place for the weak-willed (the expansion of the Kaas City power grid into tunnels beneath the temple drove a thousand slaves mad), the temple itself remained sealed until recently, when an expedition of power-hungry Sith Lords and their servants breached the gateway.

The Dark Council did not sanction this intrusion, nor did it punish the rogue Sith; no one returned from the expedition to punish. Violent electrical storms surrounded the temple for the first week after it was opened, and since then, additional expeditions have been sent by the council to determine the temple’s status. Their reports have not been made public.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Dark Temple.")

Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] transformed the Dark Temple into a powerful nexus of dark side energy with his actions and the structure itself was designed to trap Force spirits of the deceased to make it exceedingly dangerous location for potential trespassers:

Jerec versus Voiciate Dark-Temple-Dromund-Kaas
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

While the Dark Temple was too dangerous for so many to explore and tap into in person, Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] drew from it to feed his ever-increasing power – exclusive beneficiary of this development and corruption (his SECOND).

Lord Kallig - one of the Force spirits trapped inside the Dark Temple - for reference:



Jerec versus Voiciate Aloysius-Kallig
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

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"Kallig! He was one of the most powerful Sith Lords of his time. Perhaps the most powerful. Oddly pro-alien. To think how the Empire might have been different if he had killed Tulak Hord and not the other way around." - Talos Drellik

The legendary Sith Inquisitor made it out alive because he was of Lord Kallig's bloodline.

Now that is the story of but one malevolent Force spirit. There were so many trapped inside that they threatened the Very Capital of the Empire if left to their devices after the breach. Tenebrae [VOICES] had no choice but to re-assert CONTROL afterwards.

Not just the above but Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] had transformed the entire planet Dromund Kaas into a powerful nexus of dark side energy:

Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Holonet)

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Storms were common here on Dromund Kaas; dark clouds perpetually blocked out the sun, rendering terms like day and night meaningless.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

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The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

+

MEETRA FOUGHT TO KEEP the Ebon Hawk steady on its descent through the fierce storms raging in the skies above Kaas City spaceport.
She knew the storm-ravaged world had to be the world Canderous had spoken of; the one Revan had seen in his dreams. The dark side was powerful here.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Corruption of that level had a profound impact on the flora and fauna of the planet by extension:

ENDLESS NIGHTS, DEADLY JUNGLES, and violent electrical storms enshroud the hostile world of Dromund Kaas.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

The violent electrical storms necessitated construction of Lightning Spires on buildings across Dromund Kaas to ensure survival:

Jerec versus Voiciate Cdx.lore.kotet.lightning_spires

The lightning spires of Dromund Kaas tower above the planet's dark jungles, attracting the deadly lightning strikes that constantly scorch the world's storm-ravaged surface. The spires protect ground forces from falling prey to deadly strikes and harness the storm's electrical energy to power Kaas City.

The lightning spires were originally conceived by Renigus Wight, a former commander in the Imperial Reclamation Service. Renigus was spearheading an excavation mission in the jungles of Dromund Kaas when a violent storm erupted in the skies overhead. His officers ran for shelter, but were too slow. A single bolt of lightning wiped out his entire crew: 49 officers, researchers and slaves. Renigus only survived thanks to the grace of a twisted ankle that caused him to lag behind the panicked stampede and miss the fatal strike.

Following this incident, Renigus retired from the service to design the first lightning spire-a beacon of safety to shield future Imperial expeditions from the planet's wrathful storms.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Codex Entry titled "Lightning Spires.")

Jerec versus Voiciate 5118024-4413144957-scree

Dromund Kaas was corrupted beyond the point of RECOVERY in fact:

Thousands of years later when Kyle Katarn set foot on Dromund Kaas to investigate its ancient ruins, his experience scarred him for years:

While repelling an Imperial assault on the newly formed base, Kyle learned of the secret Sith ruins on Dromund Kaas. While investigating the ruins, Kyle’s fears drove him to the Dark Side. Mara, sensing he was in danger, sought him out and dueled him to a standstill. Jade, realizing that she was just fueling the darkness within Katarn, lowered her guard; Kyle could not bring himself to strike her down and was redeemed. Following his brush with the Dark Side, Katarn swore off the Force and returned to his life as a mercenary and spy.

From (Star Wars – D20-  The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

The above was after his triumph over Jerec in the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within:

Guided by the spirit of Jedi Master Qu Rahn, Kyle would go on to train himself in the Jedi tradition; resisting the lure of the dark side, defeating Jerec and fulfilling his destiny to liberate the spirits trapped in the Valley of the Jedi. In the following years, Kyle would have several more near brushes with the dark side of the Force, culminating with his corruption on Dromund Kaas and later redemption at the hands of his own apprentice, Mara Jade.

Kyle would later turn his lightsaber over to Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, fearing he might once again succumb to the dark side. Kyle’s self-imposed exile would go on for several years until the rogue Jedi, Desann, manipulated him into revealing the location of the Valley of the Jedi by staging the death of his long time partner, Jan. Although initially bent on revenge, Kyle would eventually overcome the dark side’s temptations and defeat the Dark Jedi. Embracing his destiny, Kyle joined Luke’s Jedi Praxeum and would go on to train several apprentices, such as Rosh Penin and Jaden Korr.

From (Star Wars – D20-  The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

Dromund Kaas affected even Luke Skywalker among others.

TO RECAP:

1. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

2. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
The Valley of the Jedi is soaked with the power of hundreds upon hundreds of Force-sensitives in a state of limbo. But the balance created between light and dark is immensely volatile, and only a fool or a madman would try to tap into it. Even after the spirits were freed, the death of so many Force-users there left a psychic bloodstain in its wake, and the valley still pulses with power.
-The Dark Forces Saga Part 6

See above.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
The combination of the Sith and Jedi souls made a potent mixture. Together, they formed a balance in the Force that resulted in a powerful light side center.
-The Official Star Wars Fact File 129

Reminds me of Odessen.

Jerec versus Voiciate Odessen-Balanced-Nexus

Jerec versus Voiciate Cdx-planets-kotfe-odessen

Odessen is a remote, unsettled planet in Wild Space with a strong connection to the Force. Realizing that Asylum couldn't support a permanent base of operations for the Alliance, Lana Beniko began searching for a more appropriate location. Odessen pulled at her through the Force. Unlike with Tython, Korriban or Yavin 4, Odessen's affinity with the Force is balanced, making it the perfect spot for a coalition of Sith and Jedi. Covered in lush wilderness and mountains, the planet is a hidden oasis with a mild climate and a variety of wildlife.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire: Codex entry titled "Nathema.")

On this planet, Satele Shan reshaped a location and could teleport around; she was beyond potential assassination attempts (visual confirmation). This was in stark contrast to how she fared on Yavin 4.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Jerec versus Voiciate Bloods10
-Star Wars Gamer 9

Tenebrae [Original] created a VOID in the fabric of the Force with his unparalleled application of Sith Sorcery circa 4999 BBY. Nothing can be worse than this aspect in the context of “staining the fabric of the Force.”

Jerec versus Voiciate Cdx-planets-kotet-nathema

Jerec versus Voiciate 6754990-8980038768-latest

Jerec versus Voiciate Star-Wars-E2-84-A2-The-Old-Republic-E2-84-A2-4-23-2018-10-05-17-AM

Few stories surrounding Valkorion are as chilling as the tale of Nathema. Long before assuming his current form, Valkorion was a Sith pureblood named Vitiate born on the lush and vibrant world of Medriaas. Vitiate rose to become Emperor of the Sith and ruled for over a thousand years--but only after extracting a terrible price.

Early in his reign, Vitiate invited thousands of the most powerful Sith Lords to his homeworld, then wiped out his would-be challengers in a profane dark side ritual that annihilated all life on the planet. Even the Force could not survive. The void that remained after the ritual brought pain and suffering to any Force-sensitive beings that approached.

The name Medriaas was purged from the galactic record and the barren planet became known as Nathema. Centuries later, Valkorion banished his daughter Vaylin to the blighted world, knowing the void would limit her growing power and make her more susceptible to the mental conditioning he could use to control her... if it didn't drive her mad.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Codex entry titled "Nathema.")

Tenebrae [Original] was exclusive beneficiary of this development and corruption (his FIRST):

THE SECRETIVE and supremely powerful Sith Emperor rose from inauspicious beginnings over a thousand years ago. Born to farmers on the planet Medriaas, Tenebrae entered the galaxy without shedding a tear. He regarded his parents with cold pitiless eyes. As years passed Tenebrae manifested Force powers and honed his mastery of the dark side. He soon dominated his homeworld, consumed the lives of thousands of Sith Lords, and took the title of the one true Sith Emperor. Driven by his quest for immortality and fueled by the energy sapped from his victims, the Emperor lived for centuries, amassing insurmountable power, rebuilding his exiled Empire, and plotting his ascension to ultimate rule.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

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The Sith Empire's exile dragged on for centuries. While the military, navy, and Sith grew strong, the Emperor amassed unfathomable power and plotted a vengeful war against the Republic. He ruled from the privacy of his chambers in the Citadel, his life extended to virtual immortality by Sith sorcery.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

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The Emperor is one thousand years old. In a dark side ritual, he drained the life of his home planet, to achieve immortality.

From (Star Wars: The Essential Reader's Companion)

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Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

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There was something strange about the Emperor’s voice. It didn’t sound like the voice of a single being. It had an unusual echo and resonance, almost as if a great multitude were speaking his words in perfect symphony.

A grim theory passed unbidden through Scourge’s mind: was it possible all those that had been consumed by the ritual on Nathema still existed in some form within the Emperor himself? Nyriss said he’d devoured them, but what if she was only partially correct? What if he had imprisoned their spirits inside his own corporeal form, slowly feeding on their life energy over a thousand years to keep himself young and strong?

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] in original body for reference:

Jerec versus Voiciate 7734777-8841330481-obliv

TO RECAP:

1. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of the one and only VOID in the fabric of the Force (his FIRST) – to prolong his life and remain young and strong in his original body.

2. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy (his SECOND) – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

3. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
The Power of the Valley:

The power of the Valley of the Jedi is limitless and beyond imagination, sufficient to make oneself invincible, to gain absolute omniscience, to destroy a star with a whisper, and much more.

You’ll either protect the Valley of the Jedi from Jerec, or try to take the Valley’s limitless power for yourself.
-Dark Forces 2 Game Manual

Gathering a cadre of Dark Jedi, Jerec sought out the valley of the Jedi on Ruusan, hoping to use its power to make himself invincible.
-The Official Vehicles and Starships Collection 27

Ultimately, all of Jerec's pupils were killed by the Jedi Kyle Katarn, but the price was worth the reward. Jerec at last gained access to the valley, and for one lucid moment, absolute omniscience was his. The will of the Force, Chaos, the ancient civilizations of the Rakata and Xim, what lay beyond the galactic barrier, and the origins of the universe - - Jerec understood them all, and endowed with Force powers beyond imagination, he would have ruled accordingly.
However, during this rapturous illumination, Kyle used an ancient Force technique to sever Jerec's connection to the Force with a wall of pure light. Kyle then proceeded to cut the Dark Jedi down, sending Jerec's soul screaming toward Chaos alongside the Sith spirits of a thousand years hence. Thanks to his enlightenment, Jerec was well aware of the torture without respite that awaited him there.
-The Dark Forces Saga Part 6

The human knew without being told that this was a place of death, a prison full of unreleased spirits, and a repository of unthinkable power. Power so vast, so terrible, that it could extinguish a sun, plunge an entire solar system into darkness, and condemn billions to death. But only if it fell into the wrong hands...
-Dark Forces 2: Rebel Agent

"A crossroads lies before you....The same man who murdered your father contemplates an even greater evil. His name is Jerec, and he seeks a place called the Valley of the Jedi, a place where thousands of Jedi spirits are trapped, a place of almost unbelievable power, a place he must never reach. Because if he does - the results could be catastrophic. Imagine someone who could destroy a star with a whisper, eradicate a solar system with a snap of his fingers, or `think' a planet from its orbit.
-Dark Forces 2: Rebel Agent

Below is more accurate description in brief:

Legendary sites, such as the Valley of the Jedi, have vast powers and effects beyond mere bonuses; the ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives, achieve near-omniscience, or even destroy a star. These abilities border on the realm of plot device, and are best if used as such.

From (Star Wars - D20 - The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

Let us REVISIT each point on case-by-case basis.

1. The ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives?

Tenebrae [VOICES] could do that by himself (or itself). For example:

Jerec versus Voiciate 7733649-jedi-consular-versus-aelan-kalder-child-of-the-emperor

The legendary Jedi Consular with one of his companions versus Aelan Kalder (a Child of the Emperor). The outcome is in front of you.

A true Force prodigy, Jedi Master [name] has stood as a beacon of hope in the war against the Sith Empire, earning the title BARSEN'THOR: Warden of the Jedi Order. Uniting the Republic's most contentious worlds, [name] exposed and defeated deadly Sith infiltrators hidden deep within the ranks of both the Jedi and the military. But now a new enemy threatens to destroy both Republic and Empire, forcing into an even more dangerous alliance in the desperate hope of saving the galaxy....

From (Star Wars The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire: Codex Entry titled "The Jedi Consular.")

To give you an idea, the legendary Jedi Consular defeated Lord Vivicar in single combat who in turn was drawing from hundreds of powerful Jedi Masters to fuel his strength at the time - this after repeated use of an ancient shielding technique which was potent enough to kill the last known Jedi in single attempt. The legendary Jedi Consunlar recovered from the ordeal and was declared a Jedi Master and Barsen'thor - something rare in the history of the Jedi Order. He still could not tackle some of the Children in single combat as I have shown above.

In case you do not know, Tenebrae [VOICES] was manifesting in a large number of living beings and expanded his (or its) footprint across the galaxy by extension. These include VOICES (two at a time) with HANDS (12 in total) as alternatives and CHILDREN (Hundreds in total) with DROIDS as alternatives (unknown count). Imagine this.

2. Achieve near-omniscience?

Tenebrae [VOICES] could see and perceive a lot across the breath of the galaxy by virtue of the extensions of his (or its) will in the form of his (or its) CHILDREN and OPTICRON DROIDS which were embedded in various organizations on different planets to do his bidding.

By drawing on his incredible dark powers, the Emperor imprinted his consciousness onto unwitting pawns who would serve as vessels for carrying out his will. Through the eyes and ears of these "children," he would uncover threats in both the Empire and Republic while they were still nothing but whispers. And should the need arise, the Emperor could seize control of his children and instruct them to crush any plot that dared defy his will.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

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As with much concerning the Emperor, very little is known of the droids designated "Opticron". In fact, very few are even aware they exist.

From the exterior, they appear to be standard-issue Imperial probe droids, but further investigation would reveal an amalgamation of technology both exotic and arcane. Much like the Emperor's Hand, these droids are connected through the Force in some way to the mind and will of the Emperor himself. They are his unseen eyes, watching that which he cannot--until he returns from the brink.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan: Codex entry titled "Opticron Droids.")

Tenebrae [Valkorion] demonstrated Flow-walking as well:



- demonstrating near-omniscience in the process.

3. Or even destroy a star?

That was something Naga Sadow could do:

Jerec versus Voiciate 7745174-sith-mastersofdarkness

- and he is a mook to Tenebrae by and large.

If you really want to go down this route than I have news for you. Tenebrae [VOICES] could consume the entire galaxy - all he (or it) needed to do was to consume one world which in turn would offer sufficient energy to FUEL to replicate NATHEMA on "galactic scale." He (or it) was in the position to do so after consuming ZIOST but changed his (or its) decision due to The Eternal Empire living up to his (or its) expectations. This is not mere speculation but strongly implied through character dialogues, a powerful Force vision experienced by one of the protagonists, and even in the statements of two authors contributing to SWTOR project. So many pointers cannot be wrong.

Shall I expanded on the sheer size of the galaxy in question now?

Tenebrae is INFINITELY more powerful than any Jerec Starkiller wannabe.

Let us expand on NATHEMA now.

Jerec versus Voiciate 7745185-thetaking
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

- Thousands of Sith Lords were involved in said development and it produced the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see.
- They agreed to partake in the ritual but isn’t it odd that Tenebrae [Original] had to execute the Sith Council BEFOREHAND and the others were content with 10 days’ worth of commitment to the effort? Sith Lords are neither stupid and nor obedient to this extent. Something is amiss.

It is rather obvious that Tenebrae [Original] made them all subservient to the cause:

Once they arrived on Nathema, they quickly fell under Lord Vitiate's control. He dominated their minds, crushed their resistance. He turned them into slaves to his will, forcing them to participate in the most complex ritual of Sith sorcery ever attempted. Calling on the dark side, Lord Vitiate devoured them. He fed on their power, absorbing it into himself, utterly obliterating all traces of his victims.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Perhaps not that fast but fast enough to prevent escape attempts and more.

10 days passed and Tenebrae [Original] then activated Zildrog:

The ancient mechanical entity known as Zildrog has always operated from behind the scenes. Unlike the other "machine gods" of Iokath, Zildrog permanently functions in two forms.

The first is a central computer that specializes in the transfer of life energies. Given this device's presence on Nathema, it is likely that Zildrog was a key element of the original ritual Tenebrae used to empower himself at the cost of all life on the planet. Beyond that first atrocity, however, Zildrog's central mind appears to have played no role in Tenebrae's dual life as Vitiate and Valkorion, and slumbered in stasis mode until Vinn Atrius discovered it many years later.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Nathema Conspiracy: Codex Entry titled "Zildrog.")

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"I thought it was just a legend, but he dragon god of Zakuul is real... it's a superweapon. Capable of consuming entire civilizations."

From (Vinn Atrius, Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Nathema Conspiracy)

The resulting explosion of energy killed the entire world and tore through the very fabric of the Force in the process, leaving a VOID in the fabric of the Force in its wake. Now that was a level of raw power that cannot be controlled at whim (Ambria anyone?); Tenebrae [Original] made the entire course of event possible with combination of his Telepathic abilities, Zildrog and Sith Sorcery and emerged as the only survivor from said experience. The entire ordeal was so terrifying that its aftermath and records shook any would-be- investigator to the core and made each cherish life. It was this development that motivated the Jedi and Sith to work together to ensure downfall of the culprit (sworn enemies of each other otherwise).

So how exactly the valley of the Jedi nexus came to be? It was a byproduct of a Thought Bomb enacted by Lord Kaan’s Brotherhood of Darkness circa 1000 BBY:

The Power of the Valley

Rusaan was the battlefield for the final battles of the New Sith Wars. In the final battle, Lord Kaan’s thought bomb trapped the souls of over one-hundred Jedi and Sith warriors, creating a powerful Force nexus. Drawing upon this energy grants the wielder an immense boost to their natural control over the Force. Even after the souls were liberated by Jedi Knight, Kyle Katarn, the site remained a powerful focus of Force Energy. There are many other nexuses of varying power spread across the galaxy, such as the catacombs beneath the Great Temple on Yavin IV and the ruins of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. A Force nexus can be found anywhere that a major event has occurred involving the Force such as a death, a battle or a redemption. These events cause the site to become a conduit for the Force, attracting and magnifying it. These sites should not be confused with dark side sites - powerful fonts of dark side energy which are detailed on page 156 of the Jedi Academy Training Manual. All nexuses have both passive and active effects - All Force sensitive beings within the sites range benefit from the passive effects. To gain the active effects, a creature must spend 24 hours attuning himself to the site, requiring a DC 15 Use the Force check. These effects fade if the character is separated from the site for more than 24 hours.

From (Star Wars – D20 – The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

And Thought Bomb is infinitely inferior replication of NATHEMA in turn:

Once known as Medriaas, Nathema was an agriworld of the Sith Empire at a time when Sith also controlled the Chorlian sector. An ancient Dark Lord of the Sith named Darth Vitiate destroyed all life on Nathema with a ritual designed to grant him immortality. A transcription of this ritual was recorded by Darth Revan and served as the inspiration for Lord Kaan's thought bomb on Ruusan.

From (Star Wars: Force and Destiny - Core Rulebook)

Thought Bomb’s area of effect wasn’t even remotely close to being planetary and it did not kill a world by extension. It did not create the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see and leave a VOID in the fabric of the Force in the aftermath.

The Jedi and Sith caught in the blast of Thought Bomb were nothing substantial in the grand scheme of things. Tenebrae [Original] was much stronger than each at the age of 10 and killed thousands by the age of 13; he was 113 years old when he orchestrated NATHEMA – an effort in which he outplayed and tackled 8000 powerful Sith Lords to his benefit. This could not be possible without his unparalleled dark side abilities at the time. And NATHEMA put him above all Sith in prior history by a huge margin:

Jerec versus Voiciate 7729386-sithemperorascends

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Lord Vitiate sacrificed millions, stealing their life force to make himself immortal. Their deaths also made him stronger than any Sith who had come before, and he ceased to be known as Lord Vitiate. On that day, the Emperor was truly born."

From (Darth Nyriss, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Darth Nyriss's assertion is reinforced by the information shared above. Meetra Surik also realized the obvious:

The ritual had obviously destroyed Nathema, snuffing out all life on the world. Lord Vitiate had offered his people hope, and instead had brought them a fate worse than death—utter eradication of life, existence, and even the Force.

Meetra was no expert on dark side sorcery, but it was safe to assume Vitiate not only survived the ritual, but emerged more powerful than ever. And with the destruction of everyone on Nathema—including his research team—he alone would have known the location of Dromund Kaas.

The plan was both horrifying and brilliant. In addition to becoming more powerful than Meetra could imagine, Vitiate could blame the extinction of his homeworld on the Jedi, further panicking the remaining Sith worlds. Then he could have offered them a glimmer of hope, promising to lead all those who swore loyalty to him to a place where the Jedi would never find them.

If Vitiate had been as cunning as Meetra imagined him to be, he wouldn’t have led his followers directly to Dromund Kaas. Instead, he would have taken them on a long and trying exodus—during which the Sith would have been forced to turn to him time and again for support and guidance, their dependence on him growing until he went from leader to hero to savior. By the time they finally reached Dromund Kaas, they would likely have worshiped Vitiate as a god—all-powerful and all-knowing.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

- after defeating The Sith Triumvirate circa 3955 BBY. The most powerful of these was Darth Nihilus who in turn killed a world and rivalled some of the ancient Sith:

"The blind seer, her master harnessed this technique and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith. He is already more of a force than a living thing, a hole in the Force that threatens to draw everything to it.”

From (Darth Traya, Star Wars: The Old Republic II: The Sith Lords)

Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] circa 4999 BBY >>>>> all of the ancient Sith in history including the Exiles circa 6900 BBY which include Karness Muur (who - even in death - intimidated Darth Vader and was a threat to Palpatine by extension [Dark Times 12: Vector: Part 6], and overwhelmed multiple opponents including Darth Krayt in a battle respectively [Star Wars: Legacy: Vector]).

- and the resulting SCALING CHAIN is as follows:

Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] circa 4999 BBY >>>>> Marka Ragnos (prime years) = Tenebrae [Original] circa 5000 BBY >>>> Naga Sadow (prime years)*** >> Darth Plagueis circa 67 BBY > Darth Bane (implied peak) >>>> The Brotherhood of Darkness Sith Master(s)

TO RECAP:

1. NATHEMA >>> Valley of the Jedi

2. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of the one and only VOID in the fabric of the Force (his FIRST) – to prolong his life and remain young and strong in his original body.

3. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy (his SECOND) – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

4. Tenebrae [VOICES] demonstrated the ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives, achieved near-omniscience, and could consume the entire galaxy with his most powerful expression of Sith Sorcery but changed his (or its) mind due to The Eternal Empire. Some of his (or its) Children were more powerful than the legendary Jedi Consular who in turn defeated Lord Vivicar who in turn was drawing from hundreds of powerful Jedi Masters to fuel his strength at the time - this after repeated use of an ancient shielding technique which was potent enough to kill the last known Jedi in single attempt. All said and done, Tenebrae [VOICES] is infinitely more powerful than Jerec Starkiller wannabe.

5. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
A Sentient Nexus:

The spirit of an individual Jedi Master when connected to the Valley had more power than Yun, and could rip his very soul from his body had Yun not learned a technique to resist such a thing. The technique also involves conceding to the Jedi spirit that they have won, tricking them, soothing them.

The spirit seized the tendril of being that linked Yun to his physical body. The Jedi felt a tug - followed by sustained pressure. The entity was trying to pull him out!

The Jedi attempted to withdraw and discovered that he wasn't able to do so. The other entity's hold was too strong. Fear clutched his belly, his mouth opened, and nothing emerged. It was at the very height of his fear that the voice spoke within.

"Don't surrender to doubt, my son. Use the same technique you learned earlier. He's stronger, that's all. Even Jedi Masters can lose their sanity after a thousand years of confinement. Anchor your mind, reach out, and understand. The Force will protect you."

Yun swallowed, was glad to discover that he had that much control, and took the risk. Rather than continue his efforts to withdraw, he pushed outward. The entity sensed victory and rushed in. Yun welcomed the spirit, not into his body, but into the warmth of his understanding and the hope of freedom. The ancient was too far gone to be healed, not by a mind so junior, but allowed itself to be soothed.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

The Valley of the Jedi consists of dozens of thousands of deceased Jedi and Sith, and they all try to resist Jerec, the “chorus” telling Katarn to free them. Despite the power even a single Jedi Master brought to bear, to Jerec they are still a chorus of weakness, one that he could ignore. Yun’s ability to resist the spirit that attacked him is irrelevant here, as obviously the spirits are aware of what is going on, and of what they need to do.

The Jedi jumped, fell through the air, and absorbed the impact with his legs. His lightsaber sizzled as he turned it on. “Yessss,” the chorus chanted, “free us that we might merge with the Force!” Jerec chose to ignore the lightsaber and the spirit voices. He spoke without turning. “Your efforts are misguided. Can you hear them? Whining and sniveling? Is that what you seek to become? Another voice in a chorus of weakness?”
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Refer back to the Dark Temple analogue above.

The Valley of the Jedi does not contain thousands of deceased Jedi and Sith by the way:

Rusaan was the battlefield for the final battles of the New Sith Wars. In the final battle, Lord Kaan’s thought bomb trapped the souls of over one-hundred Jedi and Sith warriors, creating a powerful Force nexus.

From (Star Wars - D20 - The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

Over 100 (or hundreds) at most (one statement gives the count of 1000 - see below). And these individuals are nothing substantial in the grand scheme of things. Most of them are mooks to legitimate powerful Force-users. Incredibly powerful Sith Lords such as Tulak Hord and Darth Marr could take out entire armies by themselves in the battlefield. Darth Nihilus and Tenebrae [VOICES] could KILL A PLANET respectively.  

Put those individuals in a row and Tenebrae [VOICES] would make them all submit and/or smoke them all with a massive wave of dark side energy in LIFE.

Their Force spirits being irrelevant to Jerec is not much to boast about because they are not established to be powerhouses akin to malevolent Force spirits haunting the Dark Temple. The latter kind could kill Palpatine let alone the likes of Jerec; Palpatine recalled a bad experience on Korriban in one of his writings in fact.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on January 16th 2021, 10:59 am; edited 2 times in total
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

on January 14th 2021, 10:56 pm
DEBUNKING THE VALLEY OF THE JEDI YARDSTICK - 2/2

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Draining the Nexus:

While draining the Nexus, it should be noted that Jerec is not dealing with a nicely packaged power source. The forces preventing the spirits departure have weakened over the centuries, so he has to target areas of leakage and make repairs to this container where necessary, to ensure he consumes as much energy as he possibly can.

He would have to be careful, however, very careful, since the forces that prevented the Jedi spirits from leaving the Valley had weakened with the passage of time and needed to be strengthened. An escape would be disastrous, since the power he required flowed from the prisoners. No need to worry, though, since repairs had begun and would soon be complete.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

The Jedi considered the officer’s words. Now that the Valley was under his control, Jerec was in no particular hurry. He needed time to prepare, but more than that, time in which to savor that which destiny had placed before him, much as a gourmet might linger over a rare and carefully prepared dessert.
There was leakage, though — leakage that could double or even triple his ability — and whet his appetite for more. The Jedi Master directed a thought outward, steered a circle around the cauldron of churning energy, and located a place where a steady stream of pitch-black energy had broken through the protective shell and strobed into space.

Jerec chose a single shaft of negative energy, drew on its power, and felt himself expand. Bigger and bigger until his mind was everywhere, until he was one with the dark inner fabric of the Force itself, until he stood on the very brink of what he perceived as being all-powerful.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Mastery Jerec gains over the Nexus:

Kyle stood, heart pounding, staring upward. What could he do? Jerec had claimed the Valley’s power, had already harnessed it, and would soon rule what remained of the Empire.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight
Putting it all together:

Jerec has to, in a relatively short period of time (between Kyle passing out after his duel with Maw, and Kyle waking up on Ruusan and confronting the Dark Jedi, so a matter of hours), completely drain and harness the nearly infinite power of the Valley of the Jedi (an incredibly volatile lightside force nexus only a madman would tap into), repair the forces keeping the Jedi spirits imprisoned, strategically target areas of leakage to ensure he gains as much power as possible and fight off the spirit tearing influence of dozens of thousands of trained force users united in their desire to be free from his control. His ability to do all of this is attributed to his power in the force.

He researched the existence of the legendary Valley of the Jedi, which he believed to be the repository of vast power, just waiting to be claimed by someone brave enough to unlock it and strong enough to control it.
-The Dark Side Sourcebook

Your entire argument falls flat in the face of actual developments:

It is during these years that Jerec assembled his band of Dark Jedi and first heard of the Valley of the Jedi. The Valley was rumored to be a powerful nexus of Force energy; the search for which would dominate the remainder of Jerec’s life. His quest for the Valley resulted in the murder of hundreds, including Morgan Katarn. Seeking to avenge his fathers death, Kyle Katarn hunted Jerec half-way across the galaxy, finally meeting him face-to-face in the Valley’s Force nexus. Jerec, overconfident in his newfound power, underestimated and was ultimately cut down by the Jedi, disappearing in a flash of Dark Side energy.

From (Star Wars – D20 – The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

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He began by hunting down the droid 8t88, who had betrayed him to Jerec, and deciphered the maps to the Valley. Kyle battled and defeated Jerec’s dark disciples one-by-one until he had recovered the map and travelled to the heart of the Valley to confront the Dark master himself. Mastering his anger, Kyle managed to defeat his opponent and free the trapped spirits of the Valley.

From (Star Wars – D20 – The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

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Suddenly, Kyle knew that the number didn't matter - that the light side offered more than enough power for any task he would be called upon to do, and that knowledge was the key.

The Jedi closed his eyes, resisted the temptation to look at the light that strobed against his eyelids, and sent a series of commands. He gathered the Force around him, shaped it into a protective cocoon, and sealed Jerec within.

Jerec felt a sense of warmth and peace as the cocoon of light formed around him. It was a wonderful sensation - and one he enjoyed, until something went wrong. The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force...

From (Star Wars: Dark Forces: Jedi Knight)

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Several of the Emperor's Dark Side Adepts, led by the Dark Jedi Jerec, had attracted corporate backers to form a warlord cabal. Their influence was limited, but Jerec had discovered the Valley of the Jedi on Ruusan, where the spirits of the the Brotherhood of Darkness and Army of Light had been trapped in limbo for a thousand years. Jerec planned to use the Valley's power to topple Isard and rule a vast new empire. Katarn single-handedly defeated Jerec and his minions before the Dark Jedi grandiose plan could come to fruition.

From (Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology)

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Since the time of the Clone Wars, no Jedi battle loomed quite so large as this one. The fate of the galaxy sits like a rare Tumanian pressure-ruby in your hands. Jerec was already powerful enough to subjugate the other Dark Jedi to his designs; now he has tapped the power of a thousand Jedi ancients. Fortunately, you have interupted him in midusurpation.

From (Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II: The Official Strategy Guide)



Question should be – how much Jerec gained from said nexus? His gain wasn’t remotely close to the implied hype of said nexus.

This at first:

Now that the Valley was under his control, Jerec was in no particular hurry. He needed time to prepare, but more than that, time in which to savor that which destiny had placed before him, much as a gourmet might linger over a rare and carefully prepared dessert. There was leakage, though - leakage that could double or even triple his ability - and whet his appetite for more.

The Jedi Master directed a thought outward, steered a circle around the cauldron of churning energy, and located a place where a steady stream of pitch-black energy had broken through the protective shell and strobed into space. Jerec chose a single shaft of negative energy, drew on its power, and felt himself expand. Bigger and bigger until his mind was everywhere, until he was one with the dark inner fabric of the Force itself, until he stood on the very brink of what he perceived as being all-powerful.
Not the state of enlightenment that so many prattled on about, but a state in which power could be accessed, shaped, and applied - all without the years of tedious meditation, study, and apprenticeship that proponents of the light side considered so necessary.

Even better was the next step, the step beyond Jedi Mastery, into which Jerec now passed. And it was there, in a state approaching all-knowingness, that he swept the ethers for signs of life.

Thousands appeared, each instantly identifiable, each distinct from all the rest. He felt the lieutenant, only meters away, frightened and eager to leave; his bodyguards, their minds blank with boredom; Sariss, seething with plans; Boc, relishing someone else's discomfort; Yun, confused and unsure; Maw, looking to express his rage; animals, following the dictates of their genetic programming; and there, closer than he would have thought, the intruders.

And not just any intruders - but Kyle Katarn! But wait - the boy had changed, had grown into more than an annoyance: a Jedi Knight! Not entirely unexpected, since Jerec had been aware of the boy's potential before he had, but surprising nonetheless. A self-taught Jedi was nearly unheard of - unless!

- and the truth flooded his mind.

The youth had a mentor: Rahn! Laughter came as if from a long way off - and Jerec felt a sudden stab of fear. He felt a desire to reach out, to crush that which opposed him, but brought the impulse under control. It was an interesting development, but not an immediate threat.

"Besides," Jerec mused, directing the thought outward, "even the best blade can be turned against those who forged it."

From (Star Wars: Dark Forces: Jedi Knight)

So he could tap into the leakage aspect of said nexus and do this:

The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and hurled the construct at Kyle's chest. The blast threw the Rebel backward onto the loading ramp. He staggered and had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship. The lock sensed his presence, and the hatch started to close. The ramp disintegrated.

The ship tilted away, and fell toward the rocks below.

From (Star Wars: Dark Forces: Jedi Knight)



Jedi Knight Aryn Leener could do better than that with her own powers let alone Darth Malgus and some members of the Dark Council. Forget about wrecking a location let alone the infinitely superior demonstration of taking out an entire world and above.

TO RECAP:

1. NATHEMA >>> Valley of the Jedi

2. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of the one and only VOID in the fabric of the Force (his FIRST) – to prolong his life and remain young and strong in his original body.

3. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy (his SECOND) – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

4. Tenebrae [VOICES] demonstrated the ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives, achieved near-omniscience, and could consume the entire galaxy with his most powerful expression of Sith Sorcery but changed his (or its) mind due to The Eternal Empire. Some of his (or its) Children were more powerful than the legendary Jedi Consular who in turn defeated Lord Vivicar who in turn was drawing from hundreds of powerful Jedi Masters to fuel his strength at the time - this after repeated use of an ancient shielding technique which was potent enough to kill the last known Jedi in single attempt. All said and done, Tenebrae [VOICES] is infinitely more powerful than Jerec Starkiller wannabe.

5. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

6. Jerec could tap into the leaks of the Valley of the Jedi to fuel his strength and demonstrated powers that are trumped by a number of Force-users on their own. He was overconfident in his newfound power and no wonder Kyle Katarn managed to defeat him single combat.

Now shall I remind you what Darth Caedus did to Kyle Katarn in a battle? This isn't looking good for Jerec Starkiller wannabe at all.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Comparisons:

We can compare what happens with Jerec, to what happens when Valkorian channels his power through the Outlander. And it doesn’t look good, so terribly battered by the use of his power is the Outlander that he is clutching his chest, barely able to walk, and the people around him think he could be dying. He is a willing vessel, a vessel Valkorian can freely channel power through, and even with all the damage Valkorian causes, the power he manages to use is weaker than what he possessed in life. To become worthy of hosting Valkorian’s power, Valkorian must forge him into such a vessel, one with supreme power.

[url= https://streamable.com/us56og]Willing vessel damaged: [/url]
Outlander Fall:
Outlander Dying:
We Weren’t Sure You’d Ever Wake Up:
“An unexpected setback, but I learned much today. Father’s power has changed. It’s weaker.”
-Arcann to Vaylin, KOTFE Chapter 8

"You were an exemplary pawn--one I forged into a vessel of supreme power worthy of preserving my spirit. Now I take your body as my own, and rule once more as the Immortal Emperor."
-Valkorian to the Outlander, KOTFE Chapter 9

And this is how Jerec’s body handled the power in the Valley of the Jedi. Much better than how Outlander fares.

The Dark Jedi fought to break through and knew it was too late. The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed, and he, along with the rocks that had risen with him, plummeted to the ground.

Kyle opened his eyes, saw the Dark Jedi fall, and knew he had taken the correct approach. By doing something positive, by protecting Jerec from evil, the battle had been won. The ground under Kyle’s boots crunched as he approached the fallen Jerec.

Though stunned and badly bruised, Jerec was otherwise uninjured. In spite of his blindness, the Dark Jedi knew that Kyle stood over him with lightsaber in hand. His own weapon lay ten meters away — but may as well have been on the far side of the planet. Having never shown mercy to others, Jerec sought none for himself.
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

Jerec rejoiced in the agent’s stupidity, leaped to his feet, and thumbed the power switch. Energy crackled as he moved forward, and Kyle came to meet him. The Rebel spun on the ball of his right foot, executed what Tal called the “falling leaf” and “slashed from the sky.”
-Dark Forces 3: Jedi Knight

See above.

You have literally no idea how much power Tenebrae [Valkorion] is packing within - it is stated to be "unfathomable:"

A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form."

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Codex Entry titled "The Fall of Valkorion.")

Physical shells cannot do justice to him (or it) and expendable. Arcann himself notes that his (or its) powers are compromised in the body of The Outlander.

Now let us compare.

This is from Jerec after he was tapping into the leaks of the Valley of the Dark Jedi to fuel his strength:



Followed by sever Force application from Kyle Katarn [amped] and the outcome:



vs.

When The Outlander and Arcann were exchanging blows with each other on The Asylum, Tenebrae [Valkorion] sensed danger and manipulated the space-time continuum to offer his support to The Outlander - his offer is accepted for the sake of argument.

Jerec versus Voiciate 7731675-valkorion-mstc1
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731677-valkorion-mstc2
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731678-valkorion-mstc3

Using the body of The Outlander as a conduit, Tenebrae [Valkorion] unleashed a swirling storm of lightning bolts on Arcann and expanded it into a Force Storm - Arcann was disarmed and the outpouring bolts struck scores of military-grade starships in use by smugglers mid-flight and electrocuted each in the process, causing much collateral damage in the region.

Jerec versus Voiciate 7731679-valkorion-mstc4
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731680-valkorion-force-storm1

Each stray bolt from Tenebrae [Valkorion] carried so much residual energy with it that when it struck a military-grade starship from the outside, it short-circuited the entire vessel in an instant.

Jerec versus Voiciate 7731682-valkorion-force-storm2
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731684-valkorion-force-storm3
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731685-valkorion-force-storm4
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731687-valkorion-force-storm5
Jerec versus Voiciate 7731688-valkorion-force-storm6

There was much COLLATERAL DAMAGE in this battle consequently - shipping activity in the region HALTED afterwards.

Jerec versus Voiciate 7731726-2933849594-x1-Kk-J

NOTE: Different classes of military-grade starships were operating over the region at the time:

Jerec versus Voiciate 7426884-valkorion-attack-ships-classes
Jerec versus Voiciate 7426866-9531785649-SWOR

This one is the Striker-class:

Jerec versus Voiciate Striker-class1

This one is the bomber-class:

Jerec versus Voiciate Starship3

The others were much bigger than both types.

Military-grade starships feature excellent shielding levels on average. It is not easy to disable any of the sort.

Jerec versus Voiciate Lord-Vindican-Force-Powers

Palpatine (Episode 9) could not disable even TIE-class fighters with his expression of Force Storm.

Tenebrae [Valkorion] was actually COMPROMISED in this battle; he could not bring his ACTUALIZED POWER to bear against Arcann in this battle because the body of The Outlander was not up to task of handling his powers and would have crumbled under the pressure. In other words, Tenebrae [Valkorion] was risking KILLING his own host The Outlander with a more significant expression of power.Although Arcann was knocked off the platform, he recovered from the FALL many miles below, and conveyed to Vaylin in a meeting that their FATHER is COMPROMISED while residing in the body of The Outlander - an opening which either could exploit to own advantage.

"An unexpected setback, but I learned much today. Father's power has changed. It's weaker." - Arcann

Tenebrae [Valkorion] was looking forward to address the aforementioned shortcoming at at a later stage but this was for his own benefit and not for host. It is SAFE to assume that Tenebrae [Valkorion] - when housed in a physical body suited for his strength - would be capable of far more destructive ends.

DIFFERENCE

It is glaringly obvious that the following set of characters (Tenebrae [Valkorion] via The Outlander vs. Arcann) were demonstrating powers and skills on the level which vastly outstrip that of the following set of characters (Jerec [amped] vs. Kyle Katarn [amped]) from any perspective whatsoever.

Jerec [amped] wrecked a ramp and caused a starship to fall in the process? Each stray bolt from Tenebrae [Valkorion] carried so much residual energy with it that when it struck a military-grade starship from the outside, it short-circuited the entire vessel in an instant [one-shot], and such stray bolts knocked out a large number of starships of varying sizes killing many in the process - the entire shipping activity over the sector came to a standstill by extension. Infinitely superior demonstration of raw power in short.

Kye Katarn withstood Jerec [amped]'s blast of power and proceeded to sever the latter's connection to the Force and cut him down subsequently. Arcann withstood infinitely superior demonstration of raw power in comparison for a respectable amount of time (his strength and defenses are remarkable) - said power would have taken out even the most powerful of the Jedi in Arcann's shoes but it knocked Arcann off the platform at most. Now bear in mind that Tenebrae [Original] was proficient in the sever Force application in his childhood and you can imagine how capable Tenebrae [Valkorion] would be in this area in comparison but it wasn't an option up against Arcann.

Jerec [amped] could not manipulate the space-time continuum to ALTER the course of a duel to his advantage but Tenebrae [Valkorion] could.

TO RECAP:

1. NATHEMA >>> Valley of the Jedi

2. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of the one and only VOID in the fabric of the Force (his FIRST) – to prolong his life and remain young and strong in his original body.

3. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy (his SECOND) – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

4. Tenebrae [VOICES] demonstrated the ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives, achieved near-omniscience, and could consume the entire galaxy with his most powerful expression of Sith Sorcery but changed his (or its) mind due to The Eternal Empire. Some of his (or its) Children were more powerful than the legendary Jedi Consular who in turn defeated Lord Vivicar who in turn was drawing from hundreds of powerful Jedi Masters to fuel his strength at the time - this after repeated use of an ancient shielding technique which was potent enough to kill the last known Jedi in single attempt. All said and done, Tenebrae [VOICES] is infinitely more powerful than Jerec Starkiller wannabe.

5. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

6. Jerec could tap into the leaks of the Valley of the Jedi to fuel his strength and demonstrated powers that are trumped by a number of Force-users on their own. He was overconfident in his newfound power and no wonder Kyle Katarn managed to defeat him single combat.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Considering Vanilla Vitiate was beaten soundly by a base game Outlander who had “dissipated his energy saving the weak”, the fact that an Outlander with years of growth, noticeable to Valkorian, is such a comparatively impotent vessel to a source far less powerful, volatile, and far more willing to grant its power just goes to show how much stronger than Vanilla Vitiate Jerec really is.

The fight.

Yeah no.

The so-called base vanilla Vitiate was The Sith Emperor VOICE of the overarching Tenebrae [VOICES] entity - committed to managing the Sith Empire. Tenebrae [VOICES] easily defeated a STRIKE TEAM of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy through this VOICE in a duel on his (or its) space station under normal circumstances.

Tenebrae [VOICES] commenced his (or its) galaxy-consuming ritualistic Sith Sorcery however which motivated both the Jedi and Sith to undermine him (or it) in different ways. The FIRST setback was on VOICE when Darth Baras convinced Tenebrae [VOICES] to shift its The Sith Emperor VOICE into the body of a living Voss Mystic who in turn was spellbound to the Dark Heart (Sel-Makor). The catch was that Tenebrae [VOICES] could not get rid of this body until it would die naturally and therefore the Hands sprang into action and called upon the legendary Sith Warrior to cut down this The Sith Emperor VOICE.

"Darth Baras plays the old games. He maneuvered me here. Knowing this body could be bound to this place." - The Sith Emperor VOICE

The aforementioned development took a toll on Tenebrae [VOICES] by extension because the act of Transfer Life in another living being is the most challenging and difficult application in the lore by far. However, this was the price that the entity was willing to pay. On the flip side, the legendary Jedi Knight and Lord Scourge were working together to disrupt FUEL angles for the galaxy-consuming Sith Sorcery and the former struck down the next Sith Emperor VOICE on Dromund Kaas in the end. Further blow came from the legendary Jedi Consular and her allies when they struck down numerous Children of the Emperor on Corellia including the First Son - disrupting another key FUEL angle in the process. Tenebrae [VOICES] could not fight effectively under these stresses.

Therefore:

Senya tells us that Valkorion started becoming colder and more distant as the children grew up, so we can surmise that he's splitting his attention again during this period. The assault of Sel-Makor and the final attack by the Jedi Knight take a lot out of him. His ritual is thwarted, and he is too weak to dominate another body or risk Valkorion until he's reinvigorated by Revan's plot in SoR - otherwise, he would've surely done so. - Charles Boyd

Vaylin became self-aware on NATHEMA next and Tenebrae [VOICES] could not risk its last standing VOICE in the face of this looming threat; Vaylin was too powerful.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Therefore,

In summary:
Jerec in a matter of hours is able to consume an infinite power source and gain omniscience, a power source that is being protected by over 24000 minds in direct opposition to his consumption of them, with the ability to pull his very soul from his body. A volatile power source that only a madman would attempt to use.  The power he already possessed gave him the ability to control this power source, and the experience seems to have no ill effect on Jerec.
The Outlander allows Valkorian to channel power through him, and even though the amount he uses is lesser than Valkorian’s own (which is no comparison to the power of the Valley of the Jedi to begin with) the experience almost leaves Outlander dead. This Outlander has had years since his fight with the Voice, and still, he is an atom next to Jerec.

See above.

TO RECAP:

1. NATHEMA >>> Valley of the Jedi

2. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of the one and only VOID in the fabric of the Force (his FIRST) – to prolong his life and remain young and strong in his original body.

3. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy (his SECOND) – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

4. Tenebrae [VOICES] demonstrated the ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives, achieved near-omniscience, and could consume the entire galaxy with his most powerful expression of Sith Sorcery but changed his (or its) mind due to The Eternal Empire. Some of his (or its) Children were more powerful than the legendary Jedi Consular who in turn defeated Lord Vivicar who in turn was drawing from hundreds of powerful Jedi Masters to fuel his strength at the time - this after repeated use of an ancient shielding technique which was potent enough to kill the last known Jedi in single attempt. All said and done, Tenebrae [VOICES] is infinitely more powerful than Jerec Starkiller wannabe.

5. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

6. Jerec could tap into the leaks of the Valley of the Jedi to fuel his strength and demonstrated powers that are trumped by a number of Force-users on their own. He was overconfident in his newfound power and no wonder Kyle Katarn managed to defeat him single combat.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Combative Mastery:

Sense Abilities:
Jerec:

Jerec is able to sense Morgan Katarn, an ex-Jedi who successfully hid himself from Palpatine and Vader for 23 years. The source implies this means his senses are more attuned than Vader’s or Palpatine’s, and that this makes him an ‘awesome foe’.

Jerec versus Voiciate Jerec_10
Jerec versus Voiciate Awesom10
-The Official Star Wars Fact File 124

Continuing from that, what an incredible boon, Palpatine’s sense abilities were sufficient to detect every move of Darth Maul’s before he made them.

But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.
-Darth Maul, Shadow Conspiracy

And Jerec [amped] could not take care of Kyle Katarn in spite of all that...   Jerec versus Voiciate 4183286560

Now that is the epitome of the WEAKNESS OF INFERIORS in clear terms.  Jerec versus Voiciate 3344068304

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Vitiate:
Vitiate’s sense abilities are less than optimal, considering how much effort he needs to put in to determine if Meetra is a threat, considering his complete failure to notice that a lightsaber was being sent flying his way, his inability to notice an astromech droid ready to shock him, and his inability to notice an attack from the Outlander. Also note Scourge’s ability to sense uncertainty and hesitation in the Emperor. We also can’t forget his failure to detect or adjust for Revan’s surprise attack.
Revan’s astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi’s lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds. Meetra was moving fast, but she was too far away to stop the Emperor from eviscerating the prone Jedi at his feet.

In desperation, she hurled her lightsaber with a wild sidearm throw, guiding it with the Force so that it spiraled end-over-end to intercept the descending blade, knocking it from the Emperor’s grasp and sending it skittering across the floor.

Suddenly empty-handed, the Emperor took a quick step back. His attention had been focused solely on Revan; Meetra’s trick had caught him by surprise. Scourge realized that if she had aimed at the Emperor instead of the blade, she could have ended his life even as he ended Revan’s. But her instincts to save her friend overrode her desire to kill her enemy, and Scourge could only lament the lost opportunity.
-Revan

Sensing hesitation and uncertainty in the Emperor as he tried to evaluate the strength and weaknesses of his new foe, Scourge rushed forward to join Meetra and Revan.
-Revan

Zap:
What?:

The Emperor stood in the exact same position as before; it was as if he hadn’t even moved. Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will: to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. This time, however, Revan was ready.

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

There was a brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan’s mind, was sent flying backward.
-Revan

So you are FLIP-FLOPPING between different duels of Tenebrae at different points in time to make a case against him? This is not a sound argument because characters are shaped by their experiences and grow and change in passing years accordingly.

Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] wasn't lacking in the SENSE spectrum - Revan [Reborn]'s powers unsettled him on the other hand. Never in the course of his life was he floored by a blast of power of any opponent before and neither anybody could resist his Telepathic intrusions to such an effect in history. This pushed him to the point of subjecting Revan [Reborn] to his own extreme blast of power in order to defeat him but T3-M4 struck in the thick of the ongoing exchange and was disintegrated in counter-response. How are these anti-feats? Please tell me. Both Revan [Reborn] and T3-M4 were experienced cum formidable combatants and they were working collectively to undermine a common foe. It was their hard luck that Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was proving too powerful.

Meetra Surik's lightsaber feat is misconstrued as well. It was her hard luck that she had to choose between saving her ally (or) strike at Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor]. To put your enemies at a tactical disadvantage is a quality in itself and paves way for further course(s) of action. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was back in the game and he was far more likely to WIN by extension. Lord Scourge could now see the obvious and chose to betray his Jedi allies in order to maneuver his way out from the course of expected defeat and death (hallmark of being a brilliant tactician).

Let us shift this discussion back to Jerec Starkiller Wannabe. Why he FAILED in spite of his near-omniscience? Or your judgement standards are far more relaxed in his case?  Jerec versus Voiciate 1419419311

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
Jerec’s Esoteric Abilities:

Jerec has a couple incredible abilities at his disposal, is very willing to use them, and both will basically annihilate an unprepared opponent.

To begin with; Darkshear, an ability that causes immediate decay of the body in an instant. And it’s an invisible attack.

Spore and all his servants opened their eyes and mouths. A forest of vinelike tentacles shot toward the dark-cloaked Imperial.
Jerec raised one hand. Tash felt a ripple of dark-side power flow from his fingertips. When Spore’s tentacles met the dark-side energy, they withered and died in midair.
Jerec snorted. “Your power is hardly a match for the dark side of the Force.” He cast an evil grin at Spore. “However, you have your uses.”
-Star Wars Galaxy of Fear: Spore

Finally in the rare event that the Sorcerers are threatened in a face to face confrontation, they have mastered an arcane technique for channeling the dark in a sustained, directed burst. A Darkshear strike causes the victim to suffer the cumulative damage of years of atrophy. Armor becomes rusted and brittle, power cells drain, and machinery jams. Individuals can age 30 years in an instant and individual body parts, a heart, a lung, a knee joint, might fail in the midst of battle.
-The Unknown Regions

There’s also this attack , which doesn’t fully match the description of any one ability, but is probably meant to represent Force destruction (even if it behaves like darkshear).

Regardless, abilities such as these would be most effective against someone who has lacking detection skills.

You are talking about esoteric capabilities versus Tenebrae? Like seriously?  Jerec versus Voiciate 815462187

1. Spore doesn't hold a candle to Tenebrae [Original] in strength and abilities, let alone relatively superior incarnations.
2. How will the Darkshear application undermine the IMMORTALITY aspect of Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] and beyond? As pointed out earlier, he is immune to aging and disease. It stands to reason that the Empire were producing powerful Sith Sorcerers from time-to-time and yet nobody was able to overwhelm Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] in an exchange of Force powers. His vulnerability was to a Lightsaber - a vulnerability that he plugged at a later stage.

@Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:
In conclusion:

Jerec is a vessel of supreme power for the Valley of the Jedi, powerful to such an extent that he can not only withstand the Valley, but control it. Vitiate is soundly beaten by a force wielder who then grows so powerful that he can’t handle the power Valkorian channels through him, can’t withstand it, much less control it. Jerec’s sense abilities are potentially beyond the likes of Darth Vader or Emperor Palpatine, and make him an awesome foe. Vitiate’s sense abilities allow him to almost die to a lightsaber throw from Meetra Surik, to be unsure of Meetra’s abilities, get shocked by a droid, fail to sense or adjust for Revan tapping into both streams of the force and get backstabbed by somebody in his line of sight not 30 seconds before. His ability to hide his own intentions from another’s senses allow him to reveal his emotions to Scourge . If Vitiate can’t see something he’ll get hit by it, and if he can see it he’ll forget about it and get hit by it anyways. Jerec’s abilities allow him to force aging upon a foe, force them to their knees and/or restrict movement, and he’s willing to use them. Vitiate’s abilities let him create doppelgangers of himself to be shocked by droids, and if he has anything else we’ve never seen it because he uses lightning and loses.
Jerec spanks Vitiate so hard it’s not even funny.

1. No, Jerec was not a vessel of supreme power for the valley of the Jedi:

It is during these years that Jerec assembled his band of Dark Jedi and first heard of the Valley of the Jedi. The Valley was rumored to be a powerful nexus of Force energy; the search for which would dominate the remainder of Jerec’s life. His quest for the Valley resulted in the murder of hundreds, including Morgan Katarn. Seeking to avenge his fathers death, Kyle Katarn hunted Jerec half-way across the galaxy, finally meeting him face-to-face in the Valley’s Force nexus. Jerec, overconfident in his newfound power, underestimated and was ultimately cut down by the Jedi, disappearing in a flash of Dark Side energy.

From (Star Wars – D20 – The Dark Forces Sourcebook)

His gains were limited as Kyle Katarn established. There was no such thing as blowing up a star in their duel to suggest otherwise. Jerec's blast of power while tapping into valley of the Jedi does not suggest anything substantial in terms of strength.

2. The legendary Jedi Knight stood no chance against The Sith Emperor Voice in a duel under fair circumstances let alone the entire entity [Tenebrae [VOICES] - this is blatantly obvious from his defeat on the Emperor's space station (a duel in which he wasn't alone and still lost). Tenebrae [VOICES] commenced his (or its) galaxy-consuming ritualistic Sith Sorcery however which made it possible for the Jedi and Sith to undermine him (or it) in different ways. The FIRST setback was caused by Darth Baras. The second by the legendary Jedi Knight under tutelage of the former Emperor's Wrath Lord Scourge. The third was caused by the legendary Jedi Consular with an army of the Rift Alliance by his side. Tenebrae [VOICES] could not fight back effectively under these disruptions and stresses. It is important to look at things "as a whole."

3. Jerec's sense abilities did not prevent Kyle Katarn from applying sever Force and gutting him - an awesome foe indeed. Joke of the decade.

4. On the contrary, Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] carried himself to victory in his fight against Revan [Reborn] and Co. even though his original tactics were moot in this exchange (a FIRST for him) - mortally wounding one and disintegrating another in the thick of exchange (these are valid accomplishments and not anti-feats). He also put Meetra Surik at a tactical disadvantage when she had a shot at him because he wasn't wasting time contemplating his next move. Lord Scourge then realized that this fight won't lead to victory and he should maneuver his way out from the course of expected defeat and death. These are much better credentials than Jerec getting his connection to the Force severed and gutted by a lone Jedi Knight irrespective of his supposed near-omniscience at the time. Try to be logical for once.

5. What makes you think that Tenebrae wasn't learning and plugging his combative shortcomings in passing years? Experience can be a good teacher. Thanks to Revan [Reborn] and Co., Tenebrae dropped his original body and created VOICES to better his chances of survival and still be in the position to strike down anybody who displeased him in a close-quarters exchange. Tenebrae also learned to block Lightsaber blows with bear hands at a later stage - he demonstrated this ability through his The Immortal Emperor VOICE. Does Jerec have anything comparable to his name? Nope.

6. Droids can respond to Dopplegangers as per D6 rules and sourcebooks. If anything, T7-M4 helped the legendary Jedi Knight tackle Dopplegangers while attempting to land a blow on the real thing. Companions can be of much help in dire situations irrespective of the protagonist having exceptional skills of his own. This is a core theme of KoTOR games.

TO RECAP:

1. NATHEMA >>> Valley of the Jedi

2. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of the one and only VOID in the fabric of the Force (his FIRST) – to prolong his life and remain young and strong in his original body.

3. Tenebrae [The Sith Emperor] was exclusive beneficiary of a powerful nexus of the Dark Side energy (his SECOND) – the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas – to feed his ever-increasing power. The nexus type which was too dangerous for potential trespassers to explore and tinker with.

4. Tenebrae [VOICES] demonstrated the ability to infuse the Force into non-sensitives, achieved near-omniscience, and could consume the entire galaxy with his most powerful expression of Sith Sorcery but changed his (or its) mind due to The Eternal Empire. Some of his (or its) Children were more powerful than the legendary Jedi Consular who in turn defeated Lord Vivicar who in turn was drawing from hundreds of powerful Jedi Masters to fuel his strength at the time - this after repeated use of an ancient shielding technique which was potent enough to kill the last known Jedi in single attempt. All said and done, Tenebrae [VOICES] is infinitely more powerful than Jerec Starkiller wannabe.

5. Kyle Katarn had no issue tapping into the Valley of the Jedi and liberating it from the Force spirits trapped within, reducing its potency in the process. However, he was scarred by his experiences on Dromund Kaas in a time when much of the world was a pile of ruins including the Dark Temple. These ruins were tame in comparison to the original Dark Temple which was the most dangerous location on the planet for as long as it stood with a large number of malevolent Force spirits trapped inside.

6. Jerec could tap into the leaks of the Valley of the Jedi to fuel his strength and demonstrated powers that are trumped by a number of Force-users on their own. He was overconfident in his newfound power and no wonder Kyle Katarn managed to defeat him single combat.

EXPANDING on the SIXTH point:

6.1. It is glaringly obvious that the following set of characters (Tenebrae [Valkorion] via The Outlander vs. Arcann) were demonstrating powers and skills on the level which vastly outstrip that of the following set of characters (Jerec [amped] vs. Kyle Katarn [amped]) from any perspective whatsoever.

6.2. Jerec [amped] wrecked a ramp and caused a starship to fall in the process? Each stray bolt from Tenebrae [Valkorion] carried so much residual energy with it that when it struck a military-grade starship from the outside, it short-circuited the entire vessel in an instant [one-shot], and such stray bolts knocked out a large number of starships of varying sizes killing many in the process - the entire shipping activity over the sector came to a standstill by extension. Infinitely superior demonstration of raw power in short.

6.3. Kye Katarn withstood Jerec [amped]'s blast of power and proceeded to sever the latter's connection to the Force and cut him down subsequently. Arcann withstood infinitely superior demonstration of raw power in comparison for a respectable amount of time (his strength and defenses are remarkable) - said power would have taken out even the most powerful of the Jedi in Arcann's shoes but it knocked Arcann off the platform at most. Now bear in mind that Tenebrae [Original] was proficient in the sever Force application in his childhood and you can imagine how capable Tenebrae [Valkorion] would be in this area in comparison but it wasn't an option up against Arcann.

6.4. Jerec [amped] could not manipulate the space-time continuum to ALTER the course of a duel to his advantage but Tenebrae [Valkorion] could.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on January 15th 2021, 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 1:27 am
Jerec versus Voiciate 1668617588
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 7:26 am
Jerec slaughters Vitiate to mincemeat.
Tybalt
Tybalt

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 8:57 am
Voiciate.
Shimrra
Shimrra

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 9:20 am
@Latham2000 wrote:Jerec slaughters Vitiate to mincemeat.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 11:16 am
@Latham2000 wrote:Jerec slaughters Vitiate to mincemeat.

Empty words. The opposite is true.
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 11:56 am
Jerec destroys the false emperor.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Yesterday at 12:17 pm
Jerec does not hold up to lore-based scrutiny. This theme was revisited in the following discussion as well. Double-check.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

Today at 9:36 am
Jerec.
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Jerec versus Voiciate Empty Re: Jerec versus Voiciate

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