Luke Skywalker vs Revan

• Luke Skywalker is from Return of the Jedi 
  
• Revan is from Revan novel 
  
• Bloodlust is allowed
  

RhoyneDelta wrote:I am saying Revan, Luke is not super impressive as of RotJ even struggeling with a small Rancor and stuff, the best thing he has going for him is that Vader is described as not consciously holding back in the RotJ novelisation, but given his character and overall portrayal him being held back subconsciously is a reasonable inference.

At the time the RotJ novelisation was written there was barely any context for either character, but Vader later got loads of feats and scaling and Luke had eons worth of both growth and jobbing before him. Both Anakin/Vader and Luke often don't fight at their fullest power even when not consciously holding back and even a far stronger Luke in DE was only regarded as potentially stronger than  Vader by Palpatine.

Sith Archivist wrote:Revan one shots

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:Revan one shots

Like he did against Vitiate?

The Rich Man wrote:

RhoyneDelta wrote:I am saying Revan, Luke is not super impressive as of RotJ even struggeling with a small Rancor and stuff, the best thing he has going for him is that Vader is described as not consciously holding back in the RotJ novelisation, but given his character and overall portrayal him being held back subconsciously is a reasonable inference.

At the time the RotJ novelisation was written there was barely any context for either character, but Vader later got loads of feats and scaling and Luke had eons worth of both growth and jobbing before him. Both Anakin/Vader and Luke often don't fight at their fullest power even when not consciously holding back and even a far stronger Luke in DE was only regarded as potentially stronger than  Vader by Palpatine.

Luke managed to block Palpatine's lightning for a time. If we think this version of Palpatine is solidly above Vitiate, Luke's performance seems to be better than anything Revan Reborn did.

Sith Archivist wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:Revan one shots

Like he did against Vitiate?

Is RotJ Luke Vitiate level now?

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:Revan one shots

Like he did against Vitiate?

Is RotJ Luke Vitiate level now?

No. My point is this; "Luke managed to block Palpatine's lightning for a time. Remember what Vitiate did against Revan. If we think this version of Palpatine is solidly above Vitiate, Luke's performance seems to be better than anything Revan did."

Master Azronger wrote:@The Rich Man Luke blocked Palpatine's lightning, yes... before Palpatine effortlessly fried him with a fraction of his power.

Giving Luke credit there is like saying Shaak Ti can ragdoll ROTS Sheev and therefore scales above Revan because she Force-pulled him in this situation:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2GZzVU8jI&t=570s

Darth Nihilus wrote:Lol at Luke 'blocking' Palpatine's lightning when Palpatine was toying with him. Revan destroys him.

Master Azronger wrote:@The Rich Man Luke blocked Palpatine's lightning, yes... before Palpatine effortlessly fried him with a fraction of his power.

Giving Luke credit there is like saying Shaak Ti can ragdoll ROTS Sheev and therefore scales above Revan because she Force-pulled him in this situation:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2GZzVU8jI&t=570s

Sith Archivist wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:Revan one shots

Like he did against Vitiate?

Is RotJ Luke Vitiate level now?

No. My point is this; "Luke managed to block Palpatine's lightning for a time. Remember what Vitiate did against Revan. If we think this version of Palpatine is solidly above Vitiate, Luke's performance seems to be better than anything Revan did."

Revan's performance against Vitiate absolutely trashes on Luke's against Palp. Revan was winning against Vitiate for most of the fight and was blocking Vitiate's lightning and deflecting some of it back to him. He only lost when he dropped his lightsaber allowing Vitiate to overwhelm his tutaminis.

The Rich Man wrote:

Darth Nihilus wrote:Lol at Luke 'blocking' Palpatine's lightning when Palpatine was toying with him. Revan destroys him.

Citation needed for Palpatine toying with Luke

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Sith Archivist wrote:Revan one shots

Like he did against Vitiate?

Is RotJ Luke Vitiate level now?

No. My point is this; "Luke managed to block Palpatine's lightning for a time. Remember what Vitiate did against Revan. If we think this version of Palpatine is solidly above Vitiate, Luke's performance seems to be better than anything Revan did."

Revan's performance against Vitiate absolutely trashes on Luke's against Palp. Revan was winning against Vitiate for most of the fight and was blocking Vitiate's lightning and deflecting some of it back to him. He only lost when he dropped his lightsaber allowing Vitiate to overwhelm his tutaminis.

Revan was winning? Lol, no. Vitiate immediately overwhelmed Revan's tutaminis. At least, Luke managed to block Palpatine's force lightning for a time. If we think this version of Palpatine is solidly above Vitiate, Luke's performance seems to be better than anything Revan did.

Darth Nihilus wrote:

The Rich Man wrote:

Darth Nihilus wrote:Lol at Luke 'blocking' Palpatine's lightning when Palpatine was toying with him. Revan destroys him.

Citation needed for Palpatine toying with Luke

On the Death Star, Luke was nearly unconscious beneath the continuing assault of the Emperor’s lightning. Tormented beyond reason, betaken of a weakness that drained his very essence, he hoped for nothing more than to submit to the nothingness toward which he was drifting.

The Emperor smiled down at the enfeebled young Jedi, as Vader struggled to his feet beside his master.

“Young fool!” Palpatine rasped at Luke. “Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!”

He laughed maniacally; and although it would not have seemed possible to Luke, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor’s fingers actually increased in intensity. The sound screamed through the room, the murderous brightness of the flashes was overwhelming.

Luke’s body slowed, wilted, finally crumpled under the hideous barrage. He stopped moving altogether. At last, he appeared totally lifeless. The Emperor hissed maliciously.

-Chapter 9, Return of the Jedi Novel

Luke was only able to deflect Palpatine’s bolts ‘initially’ (chapter 8) when they weren’t at full power yet and even then he still failed and was only successful at the beginning. Palpatine was simply making him suffer at the beginning (‘Tormented beyond reason’) and wasn’t trying to kill him (when Luke deflected for a bit). And this is why Palpatine smiles at him and says ‘You have paid a price for your lack of vision’ then says it is time for the ‘price in full’. And this is even further shown in the 4^th paragraph above where Palpatine is laughing and Luke didn’t think it was possible for the bolts to ‘actually increase in intensity’ meaning that the bolts were weaker previously and not an indication of Palpatine’s power. This means that Luke was only partly successful for a short period of time at deflecting Palpatine’s bolts that weren’t even at full power and were simply trying to make Luke suffer in agony and pain. Note that the above paragraphs occur after Luke has deflected some of the bolts.

AlexSerp wrote:

Master Azronger wrote:@The Rich Man Luke blocked Palpatine's lightning, yes... before Palpatine effortlessly fried him with a fraction of his power.

Giving Luke credit there is like saying Shaak Ti can ragdoll ROTS Sheev and therefore scales above Revan because she Force-pulled him in this situation:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2GZzVU8jI&t=570s

@Master Azronger

Didn't Palpatine use "all his dark powers" against Luke?

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi novelization wrote:The Emperor's glee turned to a sullen rage. "So be it, Jedi. If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed."

Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke: blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingers, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the boy's insides, looking for ground. The young Jedi was at once confounded and in agony - he'd never heard of such a power, such a corruption of the Force, let alone experienced it.

But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful - the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them, convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.

Vader crawled, like a wounded animal, to his Emperor's side.

[...]

On the Death Star, Luke was nearly unconscious beneath the continuing assault of the Emperor's lightning. Tormented beyond reason, betaken of a weakness that drained his very essence, he hoped for nothing more than to submit to the nothingness toward which he was drifting.

The Emperor smiled down at the enfeebled young Jedi, as Vader struggled to his feet beside his master.

"Young fool!" Palpatine rasped at Luke. "Only now at the end, do you understand. Your puerile skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid a price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker, you will pay the price in full. You will die!"

He laughed maniacally; and although it would not have seemed possible to Luke, the outpouring of bolts from the Emperor's fingers actually increased in intensity. The sound screamed through the room, the murderous brightness of the flashes was overwhelming.

Luke's body slowed, wilted, finally crumpled under the hideous barrage. He stopped moving altogether. At last, he appeared totally lifeless. The Emperor hissed maliciously.

Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith novelization wrote:Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny.'"

Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny ..."

"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin-! Please, Anaaahhh-"

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me-"

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi novelization wrote:For the first time, the Death Star rocked. The collision with the exploding Destroyer was only the beginning, leading to various systems breakdowns, which led to reactor meltdowns, which led to personnel panic, abandonment of posts, further malfunctions, and general chaos.​
​
Smoke was everywhere, substantial rumblings came from all directions at once, people were running and shouting. Electrical fires, steam explosions, cabin depressurizations, disruption of chain-of-command. Added to this, the continued bombardments by Rebel cruisers—smelling fear in the enemy—merely heightened the sense of hysteria that was already pervasive.​
​
For the Emperor was dead. The central, powerful evil that had been the cohesive force to the Empire was gone; and when the dark side was this diffused, this nondirected—this was simply where it led.​
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Confusion.​
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Desperation.​
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Damp fear.​

Star Wars: Heir to the Empire wrote:Thrawn smiled back. "It is indeed. Tell me, Master C'baoth: are you familiar with the Imperial Fleet's disastrous defeat at the Battle of Endor five years ago?"

"I've heard rumors. One of the offworlders who came here spoke about it." C'baoth's gaze drifted to the window, to the palace/crypt visible across the square. "Though only briefly."

Pellaeon swallowed. Thrawn himself didn't seem to notice the implication. "Then you must have wondered how a few dozen Rebel ships could possibly rout an Imperial force that outgunned it by at least ten to one."

"I didn't spend much time with such wonderings," C'baoth said dryly. "I assumed that the Rebels were simply better warriors."

"In a sense, that's true," Thrawn agreed. "The Rebels did indeed fight better, but not because of any special abilities or training. They fought better than the Fleet because the Emperor was dead."

He turned to look at Pellaeon. "You were there, Captain—you must have noticed it. The sudden loss of coordination between crew members and ships; the loss of efficiency and discipline. The loss, in short, of that elusive quality we call fighting spirit."

"There was some confusion, yes," Pellaeon said stiffly. He was starting to see where Thrawn was going with this, and he didn't like it a bit. "But nothing that can't be explained by the normal stresses of battle."

One blue-black eyebrow went up, just slightly. "Really? The loss of the Executor—the sudden, last-minute TIE fighter incompetence that brought about the destruction of the Death Star itself—the loss of six other Star Destroyers in engagements that none of them should have had trouble with? All of that nothing but normal battle stress?"

"The Emperor was not directing the battle," Pellaeon snapped with a fire that startled him. "Not in any way. I was there, Admiral—I know."

"Yes, Captain, you were there," Thrawn said, his voice abruptly hard. "And it's time you gave up your blindfold and faced the truth, no matter how bitter you find it. You had no real fighting spirit of your own anymore—none of you in the Imperial Fleet did. It was the Emperor's will that drove you; the Emperor's mind that provided you with strength and resolve and efficiency. You were as dependent on that presence as if you were all borg-implanted into a combat Computer."

"That’s not true," Pellaeon shot back, stomach twisting painfully within him. "It can’t be. We fought on after his death."
​
"Yes," Thrawn said, his voice quiet and contemptuous. "You fought on. Like cadets."
​
C’baoth snorted. "So is this what you want me for, Grand Admiral Thrawn?" he asked scornfully. "To turn your ships into puppets for you?"​
​
"Not at all, Master C’baoth," Thrawn told him, his voice perfectly calm again. "My analogy with combat borg implants was a carefully considered one. The Emperor’s fatal error was in seeking to control the entire Imperial Fleet personally, as completely and constantly as possible. That, over the long run, is what did the damage. My wish is merely to have you enhance the coordination between ships and task forces—and then only at critical times and in carefully selected combat situations."