Suspect Insight Forums
Suspect Insight Forums
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Go down
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 5th 2020, 9:55 am
In this scenario, the Batman and the Punisher are trapped in a room where they have to debate about whether criminals should be killed. They cannot escape until one of them concedes to the other. They have no weaponry and equipment with them. They are not allowed to assault one another. They are not allowed to lie to each other.

The room they are in is equipped with life support technology that can keep them alive for centuries, if need be. While in the room, they cannot experience hunger, thirst, need for excretion, or sleep deprivation. Escaping the room before their debate is concluded has been made impossible.

"Criminal" here is defined as the regular villains and henchmen each heroes face i.e. "criminal" is not synonymous with "supervillain" such as Thanos, Galactus, Darkseid, a lot of Justice League and Avengers villains etc.

Batman has to convince the Punisher that killing criminals is unethical because second chances exist, barring few specific situations in which it is pure self-defence. Batman wins if the Punisher says concedes e.g. "Alright, you win" stepping out of the building as a vigilante who uses non-lethal force to capture criminals for the justice system to decide their fates.

The Punisher has to convince Batman that most criminals are scum who are too dangerous to be left alive. The Punishe wins if Batman concedes e.g. "Fine, I'll do it" and starts killing Gotham's mob bosses, Joker, Bane, Two-Face, Ra's al Ghul, the Court of Owls, pretty much everyone in his rogues gallery. Bonus points if Frank convinces him to use firearms.

Batman here is modern Batman e.g. a composite of his Post-Crisis and New 52 versions because he has a no kill rule (no Golden age Batman allowed because he kills). The Punisher is a composite of his pre-Secret Wars, post-Secret Wars, and MAX versions. Both vigilantes have full knowledge of each other's actions and exploits in the past. Both characters are at their peak mental health, ready for debate.

Bonus round: In a twist of events, the rules remain the same but a time limit is introduced. If Batman and Punisher cannot resolve their debate in 72 hours, a nuclear weapon will be fired at Marvel's New York City and DC's Gotham City.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 5th 2020, 11:59 am
punisher cuz he says bad words more often.
Thrawn
Thrawn

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 5th 2020, 7:03 pm
Batman in both.

Aside from being the World's Greatest Detective, Batman understands psychology as it pertains to mental illness and criminals like few others.

Punisher is mentally ill, essentially suffering from PTSD. He was normal at one point. Punisher also idolizes Captain America.

It would take time, but eventually by appealing to the the part of Frank that wants to see his family and do right by them again, Batman would succeed.

Batman is ultimately a hero among heroes. He would inspire Frank the way Steve Rogers does.

Aside from the no killing rule, there's nothing in rules against Punisher still brutalizing and crippling criminals, which is a compromise between the two.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 6th 2020, 12:04 pm
@Thrawn wrote:Batman in both.

Aside from being the World's Greatest Detective, Batman understands psychology as it pertains to mental illness and criminals like few others.

Punisher is mentally ill, essentially suffering from PTSD. He was normal at one point. Punisher also idolizes Captain America.

It would take time, but eventually by appealing to the the part of Frank that wants to see his family and do right by them again, Batman would succeed.

Batman is ultimately a hero among heroes. He would inspire Frank the way Steve Rogers does.

Aside from the no killing rule, there's nothing in rules against Punisher still brutalizing and crippling criminals, which is a compromise between the two.
so its batman vs jason from ur point of view? cuz, funnily enough, imo, if bruce realizes that punisher is just more of the same jason that he knows, he might try to save him instead of beating him. punisher might be like "if ur a hero ill let u off" but that doenst mean he wont try shooting at bruce or anything like that as a means of stopping him from being a pain.
Thrawn
Thrawn

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 6th 2020, 7:45 pm
@lorenzo.r.2nd

so its batman vs jason from ur point of view?

I never considered the Jason Todd angle and while there are elements that are similar, the specifics are quite different. 

With Frank Castle specifically, there's the love for his family and the fact that he's suffered a psychotic break from PTSD. So he has different reasons for being a vigilante than Jason. Frank was a good person once, Jason was always a brat.

There's also a vast generational gap between the two. Frank is canonically one of the oldest heroes in the 616 Marvel, so there's a different set of values and he has life experience that Jason simply doesn't have.

When Bruce is dealing with Jason, it's a father dealing with a son, which adds an entire different set of problems not present with Frank.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 6th 2020, 10:28 pm
@Thrawn wrote:@lorenzo.r.2nd

so its batman vs jason from ur point of view?

I never considered the Jason Todd angle and while there are elements that are similar, the specifics are quite different. 

With Frank Castle specifically, there's the love for his family and the fact that he's suffered a psychotic break from PTSD. So he has different reasons for being a vigilante than Jason. Frank was a good person once, Jason was always a brat.

_i understand this, but then again, couldnt this simply point towards what kinda man jason would one day become? this would surely be on bruce's mind_

There's also a vast generational gap between the two. Frank is canonically one of the oldest heroes in the 616 Marvel, so there's a different set of values and he has life experience that Jason simply doesn't have.

_true enough. albeit, if it didnt regarding Al Gul, then i doubt it will matter for Frank tbh_

When Bruce is dealing with Jason, it's a father dealing with a son, which adds an entire different set of problems not present with Frank.

_i disagree. they have a clear relationship of some love here and there, but its not father and son imo. father and son is what he has with dick. its really not comparable imo_
Thrawn
Thrawn

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 7th 2020, 9:27 am
lorenzo.r.2nd

Batman has a lot of kids.

Dick Grayson is his ward.

Jason Todd was adopted by Bruce.

Tim Drake adopted by Bruce.

Cassandra Cain adopted by Bruce.

Damien Wayne biological son of Bruce.

they have a clear relationship of some love here and there, but its not father and son imo. father and son is what he has with dick. its really not comparable imo

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but its a clear misunderstanding of the character. A Death in the Family 1988 makes the relationship abundantly clear, as well as most of the pre-A Death in the Family issues.  This is 40 years of history.

He's a father to all five of them, not just a mentor.

I haven't read the modern 52 stuff, but classic Jason Todd was created as a direct replacement to Dick, including the father/son relationship.

It's fundamental to the Batman/Red Hood - Bruce/Jason relationship.

I've never actually seen anyone disagree with that before.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 7th 2020, 5:59 pm
[size=17]I've never actually seen anyone disagree with that before.
[/size]

now u have lol
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 8th 2020, 9:13 am
@Thrawn Speaking of Bruce and Jason's relationship, this scene gives a good perspective:

Thrawn
Thrawn

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

on August 13th 2020, 7:34 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Latham2000

That video reinforces the Bruce/Jason father relationship.

Jason is a wounded, scared child in that video. He's angry that his father let him "die" and didn't punish the Joker.

You can hear it in his voice.

Under the Red Hood is a pretty good movie, even if I loathe Jason Todd being alive.
Sponsored content

Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP) Empty Re: Batman vs The Punisher Debate (Read OP)

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum