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CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 11th 2020, 1:46 pm
Fresh Trebor. Neutral ground. 10 meter distance 

Location: TSYR’S house
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 11th 2020, 2:25 pm
Canon? Jango since Jedi seem more or less at best barely above your regular trained humans with some precog, a little TK and able to make some high jumps. Certainly haven’t really seen anything wowing of your generalized Jedi which Coleman probably falls under.
  
Plus Jango already killed him. 

 Legends? Given the starting distance and location, Coleman crosses that and slices Jango apart. His death with taking everything into account didn’t make a whole lot of sense.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 11th 2020, 2:48 pm
Legends only my friend
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 11th 2020, 6:32 pm
Jango stomps
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 11th 2020, 7:31 pm
Jango cripples him again
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 11th 2020, 7:42 pm
Sure if we wanna factor in PIS.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 1:57 pm
Coleman's first and only appearance is him dying to Jango, its hardly PIS opposed to a moment specifically created to show off Jango's abilities
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 4:25 pm
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Coleman's first and only appearance is him dying to Jango, its hardly PIS opposed to a moment specifically created to show off Jango's abilities
 
Yeah and if we take his one appearance when factoring Legends, his death doesn’t add up and there is also scaling too that he benefits from, a character doesn’t just have to rely on only what they have done. 

PIS/CIS/WIS can all happen in any form of media, SW isn't gonna be exempt from this rule.

 I would agree if this was Canon or just movie appearances, but per site rules it’s Legends unless specified. The distance here in a confined space doesn’t make well for Jango.

Edit: At best you could argue Coleman had been not in his prime fighting state when he went to go confront and pick a fight with Dooku, he wouldn't be in this matchup here, in which case bringing up Jango killing him isn't gonna fly here, at worst it's PIS cause his death doesn't make a lick of sense.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 6:15 pm
No matter how much you look into later material, its not PIS if his original purpose was explicitly to die to Jango to show off his skill. At most it makes the later legends material inconsistent with the movies. 

And yes, Coleman benefits from scaling. Jango does too, and there's one scaling chain in particular that helps him here; Jango > Coleman >= all of Coleman's feats/scalings
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 6:41 pm
@Nute_Chethray wrote:No matter how much you look into later material, its not PIS if his original purpose was explicitly to die to Jango to show off his skill. At most it makes the later legends material inconsistent with the movies. 

And yes, Coleman benefits from scaling. Jango does too, and there's one scaling chain in particular that helps him here; Jango > Coleman >= all of Coleman's feats/scalings

Well it's kind of hard to rationalize the scene as everything else being inconsistent if that's the case. Just because he was put up there to die, doesn't mean it's not PIS with adding Legends material. If we go by strictly just the movies, sure I can buy it not being PIS...but we don't do that here...and it is.

If you want to go by just the movies? Then sure, Jango beats Coleman here and in which case, why does this matchup exist to begin with? We already know the outcome.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
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Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 6:44 pm
I'm not really saying it has to be strictly the movies. However the movies are the main medium in which we can effectively compare the two. 

And if you say it isn't PIS going strictly by the movies, later content wouldn't cause it to somehow be PIS. It just shows how strong a character Jango beat. 

As for why the matchup exists, I don't know
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 6:51 pm
@Nute_Chethray wrote:I'm not really saying it has to be strictly the movies. However the movies are the main medium in which we can effectively compare the two. 

And if you say it isn't PIS going strictly by the movies, later content wouldn't cause it to somehow be PIS. It just shows how strong a character Jango beat. 

As for why the matchup exists, I don't know

Why wouldn't it be PIS? I mean all Jango did was aim and fire a blaster. It's not like he did anything extravagant, unless somehow his blaster fire is magic.

I could forgive if just going by the movies, cause by the movies, the Jedi weren't too far above a regular person. On an average anyway from the looks of it.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
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Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 6:57 pm
Jango just has supreme aim or something ig. He killed Trebor like he kills all forceusers, he's superior. How they depict fights may be silly, but doesn't have to be PIS
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 7:08 pm
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Jango just has supreme aim or something ig. He killed Trebor like he kills all forceusers, he's superior. How they depict fights may be silly, but doesn't have to be PIS

His supreme aim does jack all the moment the bolt leaves the weapon, he can aim all he wants, but it's not like he's controlling the bolt with his mind. It's worse in the fact that Coleman blocks 2 simultaneous shots with not even looking at Jango mind you and the 3rd shot may as well have taken forever with the amount of time spaced between the first 2.

You really are gonna say and rationalize him having 'supreme aim' is the reason why?...Come on, you know how ridiculous that sounds when factoring in Legends material? It's PIS.

Or at best, Coleman was really fatigued which he wouldn't be here in this match.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Five
Level Five

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 7:28 pm
Trebor
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 12th 2020, 8:47 pm
A better explanation for it instead of saying it's PIS: Jango is simply a better combatant than Trebor.

OT: Jango kicks him to the curb again.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 3:22 am
I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s entirely true, solely based on what we’ve seen: Trebor’s primary objective was Dooku, meaning that he likely wasn’t expecting Jango to intervene, nor for him to be so skilled that he would require Trebor’s full attention. Now that Jango has intervened, Trebor theoretically would have needed to divert his attention between Jango and Dooku, so as to defend himself against one and prepare for an assault from the other. Imo, it’s a kinda similar situation to Mundi’s death—he has to overcome the surprise factor, respond to the attacker but also expect an attack from another party, such as the big ass tri-droids and shit behind him.

This isn’t to say I favour Trebor or anything, but I wouldn’t say his performance against Jango in AOTC is a final way of saying he’s sub-Jango :thinkingfaceemoji:
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Five
Level Five

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 4:05 am
Curry ragdolling
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 9:59 am
I disagree Curry. As Zenwolf pointed out, Trebor already had blocked two blasts and turned his attention towards Jango by the time Jango fired his third shot. Additionally Dooku made no indication of intervening besides just turning to look at Trebor (not to lowball Dooku's gaze of course Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett 1076326320)

As for Trebor, if we're to include legends (I do anyways, since the movie is part of legends material), how is Trebor even close to Jango's level? Mace Windu, who's superior to all the other jedi besides Yoda, noted that if he made one mistake Jango would kill him. Killing waves of geonosians and droids is well and good, but I'd argue Jango casually killing death watch and jedi knights is far better. Or how about the fact that Jango scales massively above regular clone troopers, which also has from time to time singlehandedly taken out dozens of droids.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 10:25 am
@Nute_Gunray 
 
On phone so can’t really make a huge response. But anyone could die against anything dangerous if they make a mistake, that’s not really unique for Jango. Also since you’ve accepted that Trebor blocked 2 shots without even looking at Jango, then you realize how the 3rd shot hitting doesn’t make sense when he gives Jango his attention. Especially considering he’s a Form 3 Master and your average master of Form 3 can block shots from a dozen shooters in an ambush scenario.
 
 Clone Troopers killing dozens of droids don’t mean much considering Trebor waded through battalions of Geonosians and battle droids. This would be much harder to do as he’s also on the moving attacking and defending himself from blaster fire along with his comrades. 

But anyway I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree here.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 10:59 am
@Zenwolf wrote:Canon? Jango since Jedi seem more or less at best barely above your regular trained humans with some precog, a little TK and able to make some high jumps. Certainly haven’t really seen anything wowing of your generalized Jedi which Coleman probably falls under.

Lol This is so true.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
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Moderator

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 11:25 am
Well the thing is that while they can die to something, its gets more unlikely the more skill you possess. Additionally, thats not the only quote that suggests Jango being close to Mace's level, for example how Mace claimed that if he killed Dooku (who didn't defend himself at all) in Geonosis Jango would have killed him in the next second, despite Jango not being combat-ready or aware of Mace's presence before Mace put his lightsaber directly infront of him.  

Well clone troopers are far less trained, experienced and equipped soldiers than Jango, and a single of that destroying dozens of droids solo does mean much considering how far they scale bellow Jango, while Trebor's own feat is far less impressive than it sounds considering (as you stated) he's a master of Form 3 which is entirely built around blocking multiple shooters. Furthermore, said clone troopers wear light armour that barely blocks shots and has weaponry thats barely above that of an average droid. Trebor on the other hand has a lightsaber as well as mastery in form 3. So while the clone would have to dodge or tank all the shots with nothing to defend himself with, Trebor would just have to block. And as you said, Trebor fought those droids alongside other jedi, many of which also are highly skilled and powerful. 

And there obviously is a difference between the diffculity of deflecting shots based on the shooter, and while it might not be heavily realistic its evident in SW. For example lets take Zam and Jango's performances against Komari Vosa. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zCO8nCm-yo

Zam at roughly 10:45 is unable to penetrate her defences and even gets herself shot. 

Jango at roughly 11:00 forces her to run away, despite Vosa having multiple seconds to react to him shooting and even standing ready to block his shots.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 4:33 pm
Quite honestly, that scene kinda works against Jango in this instance. Vosa was laughing and doing backflips while still deflecting blaster fire being shot at her from dual blaster pistols, she probably could have ended Jango right then and there. Further on that, she isn't gonna have the experience that Trebor would in lightsaber combat nor in Force knowledge/prowess, plus the fact Vosa was careless. She was only practiced Form 3, her main form seems to be Jar'Kai which even with that, it's not as defensive as Form 3 is against blaster fire. So Trebor not being able to deflect a 3rd shot after doing so to 2 shots from 1 blaster pistol, now that really doesn't add up at all.

I'm not really looking at just their abilities here, this fight is taking place in a house, so Jango's jetpack, a key to his mobility is gonna be pretty useless to have. The starting distance is only 10 meters. That isn't exactly far apart from one another, if they have their weapons at the ready then I don't see why Trebor couldn't redirect his shots back at Jango while closing the distance.

I feel at this point we're just gonna be going back and forth on this, so I'm willing to just end it cause I realize that we might not be able to convince eachother here. Although thinking on it, given the close quarters, this does benefit Jango since he does have close range weaponry, but then so does Trebor, plus it's not like Jango can resist offensive Force powers at least as far as I remember. So on that note, I'm sure it can go either way.
BigMouthPrick
BigMouthPrick

Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

on July 13th 2020, 11:26 pm
The only thing Trebor has going for him is the environmental limitations on Jango.
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Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett Empty Re: Coleman Trebor Vs Jango Fett

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