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Bergmar
Bergmar

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 5:43 am
Both at the prime

All-out


Last edited by Bergmar on July 2nd 2020, 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 5:55 am
Dooku. Not that close
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 6:06 am
Tol Skorr might be a better match.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 10:38 am
dookie
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 11:03 am
Dooku ragdolls
Lord Eon
Lord Eon

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 11:11 am
Dooku
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 11:42 am
Dooku. Better augmentation and better skill in sabers. The only area Malgus might have a chance is Force. 

I don't get how all the Jensaarai1 fans say people like Dooku and Kenobi are too much of lightweights to fight Malgus. Dooku's fights with Yoda and Grievous and Obi-Wan's fights with Anakin and Grievous show that they clearly can deal with Malgus's strength if not surpass it. 

I mean Jensaarai1 did put Shaak Ti's augmentation above ROTS Anakin's when it's not even past AOTC Anakin's.
Gianfi
Gianfi

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 11:57 am
Dooku
BigMouthPrick
BigMouthPrick

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 12:30 pm
Legends Dooku easily.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Five
Level Five

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 1:53 pm
Dooku massacres.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 2:07 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Hmm.

Darth Malgus seriously injured:

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Onslaught-Jedi-Knight-Objective-Meridian-Flashpoint-Republic-Solo-Mode-3

Still manage to send the following packing:

The Alliance Commander - Powers shaped by Valkorion
Jedi Master Tau Idair - One of the most powerful Jedi Masters
Jedi Knight Arn Peralun - Powers and abilities salvaged through extensive cybernetics

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Onslaught-Jedi-Knight-Objective-Meridian-Flashpoint-Republic-Solo-Mode-4

And then:

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Onslaught-Jedi-Knight-Objective-Meridian-Flashpoint-Republic-Solo-Mode

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Onslaught-Jedi-Knight-Objective-Meridian-Flashpoint-Republic-Solo-Mode-1

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Onslaught-Jedi-Knight-Objective-Meridian-Flashpoint-Republic-Solo-Mode-2

- Pulls down a machine which is about the size of a shopping mall and would have a mass of thousands of tons to say the least. Its collapse has catastrophic consequences for the hyper-tall skyscraper by large, and it falls apart eventually.

The above is a solid measure of Darth Malgus's telekinetic abilities.

---

Darth Malgus's proficiency in Force Lightning, Telekinesis and Defensive applications, made it possible for him could create a devastating Force Maelstrom as well:

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Book-of-Anger-Palpatine

Its blatantly obvious that Darth Malgus is superior Force-user.

Darth Malgus is excellent in lightsaber combat as well, and a physical tank on top. He could crack bones of a powerful opponent with a single kick:

He vented his rage in a continuous roar as he unleashed a furious series of blows: an overhand slash that Adraas parried; a low stab that Adraas barely sidestepped; a side kick that connected to Adraas's side, broke ribs, and flung Adraas fully across the narrow axis of the hall. He crashed into a column and the impact split it as would lightning a tree.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

---

Count Dooku will meet his match in this particular Sith Lord.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on July 2nd 2020, 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 2:11 pm
@HeartoftheForce wrote:Kadrian Sey might be a better match.

👍
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 3:25 pm
Dooku
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 4:26 pm
Dooku probably one shots.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 4:48 pm
Dooku wrecks.

Pulling down a machine, mostly with the aid of gravity, isn't anymore impressive than Ventress' avalanche feat, even if Malgus was injured.
Bergmar
Bergmar

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 6:06 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:
Count Dooku will meet his match in this particular Sith Lord.

Agree
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 2nd 2020, 7:41 pm
Dooku, great fight.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 3:03 am
@SnowxElf wrote:Dooku wrecks.

Pulling down a machine, mostly with the aid of gravity, isn't anymore impressive than Ventress' avalanche feat, even if Malgus was injured.

Avalanche is easy to trigger actually; normal humans can (and have). All it takes is to notice a point-of-vulnerability in the formation of ice and exploit it. Being a Force-user, Asajj Ventress would have an easier time in noticing a point-of-vulnerability.

The machine [in question] was a FIXED installation anchored into a position by massive supports. In order to pull it down, Darth Malgus had to overcome its entire support infrastructure which he did. The support infrastructure was understandably gigantic and extremely durable given the fact that it was designed to hold so much mass in place (an object about the size of a shopping mall). Not just the anchoring part but when Darth Maglus was attempting to pull the machine down, its functions were flickering indicating that its very inter-connectivity to the hyper-scrapper was being shattered.

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Darth-Malgus-telekinetics1

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Darth-Malgus-telekinetics2

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Darth-Malgus-telekinetics3

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Darth-Malgus-telekinetics4

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Darth-Malgus-telekinetics5

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Darth-Malgus-telekinetics7

This is easily one of the greatest telekinetic showings from a Force-user in combative context.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 4:13 am
@S_W_LeGenD  I called it an Avalanche although it is likely that Ventress was just pulling all the snow down with her Tk as well because the Jedi didn't have time to defend themselves against it. Malgus also had much more time to perform his feat which is why I think Ventress' is more impressive. 

There is also this feat, which I still think is on par.

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku 5250697-boulders

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku 5250698-boulders1
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 4:57 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@SnowxElf wrote:@S_W_LeGenD  I called it an Avalanche although it is likely that Ventress was just pulling all the snow down with her Tk as well because the Jedi didn't have time to defend themselves against it. Malgus also had much more time to perform his feat which is why I think Ventress' is more impressive. 

There is also this feat, which I still think is on par.

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku 5250697-boulders

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku 5250698-boulders1

Oh dear...

Asajj Ventress tore some natural pieces of rock from the roof of the cave and brought them down on her enemies. How is this a comparable showing, my friend?

Jedi Master Orgus Din collapsed an entire section of a gigantic cave to block an important infiltration route of Flesh Raiders:

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Jedi-Master-telekinetics1

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Jedi-Knight-Episode-1-Rise-of-the-Flesh-Raiders

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku SWTOR-Jedi-Knight-Episode-1-Rise-of-the-Flesh-Raiders-1

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Jedi-Master-telekinetics2

Entire setting shook while it happened. And this was an easy feat for the Jedi Master.

---

Darth Malgus ruined a gigantic technological construct; its sheer size, durability and mechanical complexity is an entirely different matter in comparison to tearing through natural rocks.

Darth Malgus is operating on a level of raw power where he is able to deal with multiple powerful Force-users in a battle, and is able to send even the Alliance Commander packing away from his position. He uses his powers to create sufficient room for himself to ruin a gigantic technological construct and sabotage the Meridian Complex by extension. He is able to escape from the resultant carnage which is further testament to his extreme durability. Gigantic structures collapsing around him does not stop him; he is able to handle tonnage of debris and move out.

Come on, my friend.

If the likes of Asajj Ventress are in the league of Darth Malgus, then how come Palpatine held him on another level in comparison to even his own apprentice Count Dooku? To the extent that Palpatine was learning things from Darth Malgus to further hone his abilities in the Dark Side?

Does not add up. There is complete disconnect between your line-of-thought and the LORE.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 12:46 pm
Legend's convinced me Dooku wins handily via better feats than "easily one of the greatest telekinetic showings from a Force-user in combative context."


Darth Malgus is operating on a level of raw power where he is able to deal with multiple powerful Force-users in a battle, and is able to send even the Alliance Commander packing away from his position

This is nonsense. He caught the Outlander with their defences down and did absolutely nothing beyond knocking them back 10-20 metres. The Outlander then got up immediately and was completely fine. You've zero evidence to suggest that Dooku couldn't replicate this feat against an Outlander with their defences down. We know that the Outlander is massively above Onslaught Malgus, so this feat is pretty much useless.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 3:15 pm
@S_W_LeGenD


Malgus' feat is nothing to ride home about. Anakin was capable of moving/tilting a CIS dreadnought fast enough to collide with Missiles and he was inferior to Dooku at this time period. Your trying to hype up this feat greater than it really is.
Darth Zanos
Darth Zanos

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 3:51 pm
Dooku stomps
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 3rd 2020, 4:28 pm
To be honest, credit to S_W_Legend for making me go back over Malgus' feats and comparing the two.

Malgus' direct feats:

Fodderising a battlemaster as of Return.
Overpowering Jedi Knight Satele Shan while heavily injured as of Hope
Matching Grandmaster Ven Zallow as of Deceived.
Fodderising Lord Adraas, who matched him before Eleena's death.
Bringing the Act 3 strike team to their knees with a lightning blast, then it taking all four to beat him (with the likes of the HoT stating his technique was "flawless" and it taking Malgus' doubt and uncertainty clouding his fighting abilities to bring him down) in a battle during which he repeatedly pushed, slammed, electrocuted or choked multiple of them at once.
Choking and killing Lord Savik, a Dark Council member, from across the galaxy.
One-shotting Aryn Leneer and other Jedi knights/padawans with Force lightning.
Force pushing the Alliance Commander when they had their defences down.
Being stated to be >> Tau and Arn by virtue of them saying they wouldn't have survived without the Outlander.
Bringing down a huge engine by ripping it free of its restraints while injured.
Throwing Darth Malora, a Council member, like a pinball.
Soloing Gnost-Dural, a legendary Jedi historian. 

Dooku's feats:

Straining AOTC Yoda with his lightning and testing him with TK.
One-shotting AOTC Anakin with lightning.
Effortlessly crushing a huge crane and causing it to fall while drained/exhausted.
Sent IH Obi-Wan flying with the Force and stunned him for a brief time.
Effortlessly torn down huge bridges.
One-shotted Sora Bulq after an extended duel that was noted to have tired him by Tholme (whether it actually tired him is debatable).
Ragdolled Quinlan Vos.
Is at least a match for AOTC Mace (numerous sources suggest he's superior) as of AOTC.
Briefly stalemated Boz Pity Mace, with neither displaying an edge.
Ragdolled 19 BBY Ventress.
Ragdolled Master Tiplee.
Shown to be comparably strong, if not stronger, than Maul. Note that this is based off the Talzin vs Sidious fight, though Sidious believed Dooku was a worthy replacement for Maul.
Knocks 20/19 BBY Anakin back more than once with both TK and lightning.

When scaling's taken into account and Dooku's lightsaber advantage, Dooku wins in probably a good, maybe (but unlikely) great fight. Unsure yet. Dooku is simply more impressive in terms of power, and he's more skilled. Malgus' only advantages are physical strength, ruthlessness and stamina, none of which I'm convinced will turn the tide in his favour against a generally better combatant.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

on July 4th 2020, 3:39 am
@SnowxElf wrote:@S_W_LeGenD


Malgus' feat is nothing to ride home about. Anakin was capable of moving/tilting a CIS dreadnought fast enough to collide with Missiles and he was inferior to Dooku at this time period. Your trying to hype up this feat greater than it really is.

NOTE: I needed more time to prepare a response but rushed to it. My apologies for EDITS in this post.

If this was Darth Vader, some of the members would be singing songs over it. Darth Maul does something similar on a much smaller scale (starship hyperdrive) and some of the members were like GAGA GAGA over it.

The feat [in question] is on another level in comparison to the usual stuff - shattering rocks and walls.

Anakin Skywalker is an odd ball. When in the right frame of mind, he was able to do things which would make even Yoda envy, but these are his OUTLIER showings, and his ACTUALIZED POWERS were not at par (the norm). When in the right frame of mind, he was able to defeat Count Dooku. But he utterly failed to defeat Obi-Wan Kenobi on Mustafar which is really strange. Anakin's showings encompass lot of fluctuations; he needed a better teacher. Obi-Wan was always like "be mindful of your thoughts Anakin." As if he wanted Anakin to remain CLIPPED or something.

Below is a rough comparison of the two machines:

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Comparison-of-objects

Anakin Skywalker had to tap into his RAW POWER to the maximum extent possible in order to TILT that hovering ship towards the direction of incoming missiles:

Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku 5469007-6557702734-43146

You can see the strain on Anakin's face while he did that. This was something completely out of norm for him, and remained so in many years to come. And Anakin wasn't badly injured a moment before this feat - he had had time to recover (notice his prosthesis) and was in good shape and form at the time.

THE ENTIRE BATTLE involving Darth Malgus is to be taken into consideration; not just a single act of malice in a lengthy sequence-of-events. Could Anakin Skywalker exchange blows with the likes of the Alliance Commander, one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in Tau Idair, and a cyborg Jedi Knight at the same time and live to tell the tale afterwards? Could he send these opponents packing away from himself with his telekinetic abilities a moment after being disarmed and badly injured? Could he create sufficient room for himself to sabotage the Meridian Complex by extension, and make it out alive yet still? These are pressing questions and considerations when viewed in combination. The odds Darth Malgus was up against - presented a WHOLE NEW LEVEL of challenge in comparison to Count Dooku in isolation. No wonder Palpatine felt and mentioned that Darth Malgus's battlefield feats were never duplicated; Palpatine most likely knew much more then what is/was revealed in the Book of Sith.

People want to gauge strength of a character based on how massive a structure he is able to bring down or able to move in isolation. These showings can help establish an argument but not very telling in every manner of parallel drawn, mind you.

ANALOGY: Starkiller have a bag full of impressive showings under his belt in isolation and when he was up against a powerful opponent in Darth Vader, he barely succeeded in defeating him. Luke Skywalker had much less to show in comparison to Starkiller but he defeated a more capable Darth Vader in the Battle of Endor.

Even if sending the Jedi packing across the hall was manageable, doing the same to a being as powerful as the Alliance Commander with a Force push is by no means a joke and would have taken a lot out from (any) Force-user - these are subtle details which escape attention of many a member. This is something you would expect from Yoda and not anybody less (remember Yoda sending Palpatine packing across the office with a Force push? - not a mundane feat on his part).

Shattering massive constructs and/or moving some around is not a big deal for Darth Malgus, let alone the Alliance Commander. If this is the objective, these two will not disappoint much like Yoda.

In the case of Darth Malgus; there is a consistent pattern of uplift in his ACTUALIZED POWERS over the years. He defeated powerful opponents during the course of his journey starting with Jedi Master Kao Cen Darach (Darth Malgus is officially counted among the greatest of warriors even before this encounter; defeating Master Kao only reinforced his reputation) - each powerful opponent having impressive (above-norm) showings of his/her own and respective scaling-chains to account for in relation. What I like about Darth Malgus is that his responses are measured and calculative - not that of a Nihilist like I will pull down an entire city or something.

I am sure that WE have not seen the very best of Darth Malgus in his battles thus far; he was capable of producing a Force Maelstrom - an application whose knowledge and command enabled Palpatine to produce a Force Storm (Wormhole). Thanks to Vaylin, WE all have seen firsthand what happens when a Force Maelstrom materialize; it swiftly overwhelm any number of opponents caught in its sphere of energies and begins to tear the entire setting apart by extension. This is not a joke. Individuals such as Asajj Ventress and Count Dooku are not equipped to deal with an expression of raw power of this kind; even Arcann (a remarkably powerful Force-user) wasn't, and this puts into question the ability of Revan (Reborn) and Yoda by extension.

Vaylin took the matter of shattering gigantic structures with her telekinetic abilities to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL in comparison to the others. She also produced a Force Maelstrom in a battle after being brought to her knees earlier, but the Alliance Commander managed to kill her STILL. The Alliance Commander is so far above the others and that he can single-handedly turn the tide of any major war by now. The game is to switch to PIS to keep things interesting for the Alliance Commander now, much like it had to in the case of Valkorion. This is the problem of MMO format of game.

If the game was/is a single-player cinematic type, the Alliance Commander could be shown reshaping landscapes by now.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on July 4th 2020, 10:50 am; edited 12 times in total
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Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku Empty Re: Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku

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