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Darth Zanos
Darth Zanos

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 10:50 am
It is hard to compare video game characters to movie characters, so who would win in this case?
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 12:56 pm
Windu lolstomps
Darth Zanos
Darth Zanos

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 2:06 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:Windu lolstomps

Do you have proof for this?
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 2:12 pm
ahmadadam96 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:Windu lolstomps

Do you have proof for this?

No? There isn't a proof for almost anything in Star Wars debating. Giving their feats and accolades, Mace far surpasses Meetra and it is obvious.
Darth Zanos
Darth Zanos

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 2:15 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:
ahmadadam96 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:Windu lolstomps

Do you have proof for this?

No? There isn't a proof for almost anything in Star Wars debating. Giving their feats and accolades, Mace far surpasses Meetra and it is obvious.

Meetra easily defeated Darth Nihilus who's one of the strongest sith lords. She also defeated Darth sion and kreia. I think she's a lot stronger than you give her credit. Mace on the other hand lost against palpatine. So it's not obvious that mace wins.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 2:48 pm
ahmadadam96 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
ahmadadam96 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:Windu lolstomps

Do you have proof for this?

No? There isn't a proof for almost anything in Star Wars debating. Giving their feats and accolades, Mace far surpasses Meetra and it is obvious.

Meetra easily defeated Darth Nihilus who's one of the strongest sith lords. She also defeated Darth sion and kreia. I think she's a lot stronger than you give her credit. Mace on the other hand lost against palpatine. So it's not obvious that mace wins.

What makes you think that Nihilus is one of the strongest Sith Lords? Aside from that, Meetra was the counter of Nihilus and he was weakened after the drain attempt. Plus she was backed by Visas who was bonded with Nihilus and Mandalore himself.

Defeating Sion and Kreia is impressive, because?

Mace fought equally with Sheev, the strongest Sith Lord ever existed. Casting that aside, Mace actually has impressive feats and showings backed by G-Canon sources. What does Meetra have bro?

Meetra and Scourge got stomped by Nyriss. I don't recall Mace getting stomped by some insignificant Sith Lord.
Bergmar
Bergmar

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 3:35 pm
Meetra. She is equal Malgus\Dooku level, perhaps even more powerful.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 3:39 pm
@Bergmar wrote:Meetra. She is equal Malgus\Dooku level, perhaps even more powerful.

Why is she Malgus/Dooku level?
Bergmar
Bergmar

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 4:02 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@NotAA3 wrote:
@Bergmar wrote:Meetra. She is equal Malgus\Dooku level, perhaps even more powerful.

Why is she Malgus/Dooku level?

Because she sneaked through a couple of hundred Siths solo in trayus academy. And oneshot Atris (one of the most powerful jedi council member).
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 4:20 pm
@Bergmar wrote:
@NotAA3 wrote:
@Bergmar wrote:Meetra. She is equal Malgus\Dooku level, perhaps even more powerful.

Why is she Malgus/Dooku level?

Because she sneaked through a couple of hundred Siths solo in trayus academy. And oneshot Atris (one of the most powerful jedi council member).

Atris is nowhere near the most powerful Jedi Council members, and even if she was among them what makes her anywhere near people like Bastila, Nomi, Satele, Vrook, Kavar or Zez-Kai? Also as I remember, nothing indicates a "oneshot" scenario.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Two
Level Two

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 4:23 pm
Well tbf, Bastila is sub The Most Powerful Masters so if Atris was in that bracket, she’s be above even DS Bastila. Kavar was also said to be less of a combatant and more of a diplomat if I recall, though don’t quote me on that.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 4:32 pm
@Bergmar wrote:
@NotAA3 wrote:
@Bergmar wrote:Meetra. She is equal Malgus\Dooku level, perhaps even more powerful.

Why is she Malgus/Dooku level?

Because she sneaked through a couple of hundred Siths solo in trayus academy. And oneshot Atris (one of the most powerful jedi council member).

Why does any of that put her on par with Malgus and Dooku?
Bergmar
Bergmar

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 4:49 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@NotAA3 wrote:
@Bergmar wrote:
@NotAA3 wrote:
@Bergmar wrote:Meetra. She is equal Malgus\Dooku level, perhaps even more powerful.

Why is she Malgus/Dooku level?

Because she sneaked through a couple of hundred Siths solo in trayus academy. And oneshot Atris (one of the most powerful jedi council member).

Why does any of that put her on par with Malgus and Dooku?

Why does not? Do you think Obi Wan could get through 200 Sith at the academy? He would have died before passing half the way.
Darth Zanos
Darth Zanos

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 4:55 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:
ahmadadam96 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
ahmadadam96 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:Windu lolstomps

Do you have proof for this?

No? There isn't a proof for almost anything in Star Wars debating. Giving their feats and accolades, Mace far surpasses Meetra and it is obvious.

Meetra easily defeated Darth Nihilus who's one of the strongest sith lords. She also defeated Darth sion and kreia. I think she's a lot stronger than you give her credit. Mace on the other hand lost against palpatine. So it's not obvious that mace wins.

What makes you think that Nihilus is one of the strongest Sith Lords? Aside from that, Meetra was the counter of Nihilus and he was weakened after the drain attempt. Plus she was backed by Visas who was bonded with Nihilus and Mandalore himself.

Defeating Sion and Kreia is impressive, because?

Mace fought equally with Sheev, the strongest Sith Lord ever existed. Casting that aside, Mace actually has impressive feats and showings backed by G-Canon sources. What does Meetra have bro?

Meetra and Scourge got stomped by Nyriss. I don't recall Mace getting stomped by some insignificant Sith Lord.

Dear @HellfireUnit

I don't think you should count the Revan book. It is a gross mischaracterization of the Exile character from Kotor 2. I'm convinced the writer failed to understand the complexity of the exile. It seems you have as well. It makes sense considering the writer was not involved with Kotor 2. Meetra defeated hundreds of Dark Jedi before facing off against Sion, who she defeated multiple times. Sion is basically immortal and he was defeated handily by Meetra. The only thing Mace did was get thrown off a building by an old man.

Pathetic.

  Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu 1076326320
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 5:01 pm
@Bergmar

Why does not?

...that's not how debating works. You made the claim that it puts her with Malgus and Dooku, you prove it. It's not up to me to prove it doesn't when I never made a claim either way.

Do you think Obi Wan could get through 200 Sith at the academy?

Ignoring the obvious fact that we're discussing Dooku/Malgus and not Kenobi, I see no reason to assume he can't.

He would have died before passing half the way.

Why?
Red12789
Red12789

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 5:17 pm
Mace with ease
BoD
BoD
Level Six
Level Six

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 5:44 pm
Every day we stray further from God.

Mace one-shots.
Bergmar
Bergmar

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 5:48 pm
@NotAA3 wrote:@Bergmar

Why does not?

...that's not how debating works. You made the claim that it puts her with Malgus and Dooku, you prove it. It's not up to me to prove it doesn't when I never made a claim either way.

Do you think Obi Wan could get through 200 Sith at the academy?

Ignoring the obvious fact that we're discussing Dooku/Malgus and not Kenobi, I see no reason to assume he can't.

He would have died before passing half the way.

Why?

I already answered your question before. I'm not going to prove anything to you. This is my assumption based on everything I read and saw.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 5:49 pm
Meetra is buried in piles of TOR scaling. Windu however measures favourably up against those who scale over those piles.


Last edited by Sjuttiosju on June 19th 2020, 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 5:59 pm
@Bergmar

I already answered your question before.

No, you didn't. You haven't provided any justification as to why Dooku can't replicate her Trayus Academy feat beyond just stating that you think Kenobi can't... which isn't an argument.

I'm not going to prove anything to you.

Why not? It defeats the purpose of debating to not prove your claims - I have no reason to buy an unsubstantiated premise.

This is my assumption based on everything I read and saw.

An assumption with absolutely no justification, apparently.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 7:23 pm
windu rapes her to death
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 9:06 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Mace Windu, but Meetra Surik will make him work for it.

TBH, Surik is a very capable duelist as well. She was able to taken on and defeat two members of the Emperor's Guard by herself much like Lord Scourge who is literally established as an EXPERT SWORDSMAN at the time. Each member of the the Emperor's Guard is stated to have excellent technical dueling skills and a match for a well-trained Jedi and/or Sith. And when at close proximity to the Emperor, they were virtually impossible to affect with Force powers as Revan found out soon enough.

Surik is also Light Sided. She does not offer Windu much to draw from to fuel his VAAPAD.

---

Windu versus Palpatine is not so black-and-white as it seems.

I shall explain HOW Windu defeated Palpatine in a duel in the latter's office.

It is clearly established that Palpatine is above the pay grade of some of the respected Jedi Masters of the Order in their time; they are removed from the scene in short order. This is what happens when much of your skillset is built upon combating droids and the sort.

Windu is the most talented of the bunch; he is INNOVATIVE on top. He refined his dueling skills with VAAPAD and was not afraid to draw strength from the dark side to complement it - a prerequisite of VAAPAD in order for it to be effective. This is something that Jedi Master Sora Bulq was unable to do and Count Dooku noticed as much. Therefore, Windu became a very effective duelist.

Windu was able to exchange blows with Palpatine by sinking into VAAPAD which augmented him to the level of Palpatine in the process since Windu was drawing strength from the dark side in the process and the source of this was Palpatine himself (superconducting loop). However, this was a stalemate, and Windu had another talent up his sleeve - his ability to see SHATTERPOINTS.

Windu saw two SHATTERPOINTS:

1. Office window ledge
2. Anakin Skywalker

Windu realized that Palpatine will loose his footing on the office window ledge and therefore leapt towards it, shattering the window just before. Palpatine's error of judgement in this case was that he should have Force-pushed Windu off the office window at this point but he decided to tag along and lost his footing on the ledge of the window, and therefore, end up disarmed at the hands of Windu.

The next SHATTERPOINT proved FALLIBLE however, and Windu lost his life due to it.

It is not necessary for Windu to defeat/disarm Palpatine in every duel and in every situation. Windu's chances depend upon SHATTERPOINTS which he may or may not be able to see in each case.

Therefore, people should not assume that Windu is better than Palpatine BY DEFAULT.

Secondly, what if Windu is contending with an opponent other than Palpatine? Windu will not AUTOMATICALLY showcase performance on the level he could against Palpatine in this case. His effectiveness is likely to vary from opponent to opponent depending upon their respective strengths and weaknesses. Mother Talzin was able to exchange blows with Windu as well for instance - I am sure that she isn't BESTEST GREATEST DUELIST EVA
Bergmar
Bergmar

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 10:18 pm
Suppose if Windu was in KOTOR 2 as an enemy, how much HP would he have, and what damage?
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 10:35 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:Mace Windu, but Meetra Surik will make him work for it.

TBH, Surik is a very capable duelist as well. She was able to taken on and defeat two members of the Emperor's Guard by herself much like Lord Scourge who is literally established as an EXPERT SWORDSMAN at the time. Each member of the the Emperor's Guard is stated to have excellent technical dueling skills and a match for a well-trained Jedi and/or Sith. And when at close proximity to the Emperor, they were virtually impossible to affect with Force powers as Revan found out soon enough.

Surik is also Light Sided. She does not offer Windu much to draw from to fuel his VAAPAD.

---

Windu versus Palpatine is not so black-and-white as it seems.

I shall explain HOW Windu defeated Palpatine in a duel in the latter's office.

It is clearly established that Palpatine is above the pay grade of some of the respected Jedi Masters of the Order in their time; they are removed from the scene in short order. This is what happens when much of your skillset is built upon combating droids and the sort.

Windu is the most talented of the bunch; he is INNOVATIVE on top. He refined his dueling skills with VAAPAD and was not afraid to draw strength from the dark side to complement it - a prerequisite of VAAPAD in order for it to be effective. This is something that Jedi Master Sora Bulq was unable to do and Count Dooku noticed as much. Therefore, Windu became a very effective duelist.

Windu was able to exchange blows with Palpatine by sinking into VAAPAD which augmented him to the level of Palpatine in the process since Windu was drawing strength from the dark side in the process and the source of this was Palpatine himself (superconducting loop). However, this was a stalemate, and Windu had another talent up his sleeve - his ability to see SHATTERPOINTS.

Windu saw two SHATTERPOINTS:

1. Office window ledge
2. Anakin Skywalker

Windu realized that Palpatine will loose his footing on the office window ledge and therefore leapt towards it, shattering the window just before. Palpatine's error of judgement in this case was that he should have Force-pushed Windu off the office window at this point but he decided to tag along and lost his footing on the ledge of the window, and therefore, end up disarmed at the hands of Windu.

The next SHATTERPOINT proved FALLIBLE however, and Windu lost his life due to it.

It is not necessary for Windu to defeat/disarm Palpatine in every duel and in every situation. Windu's chances depend upon SHATTERPOINTS which he may or may not be able to see in each case.

Therefore, people should not assume that Windu is better than Palpatine BY DEFAULT.

Secondly, what if Windu is contending with an opponent other than Palpatine? Windu will not AUTOMATICALLY showcase performance on the level he could against Palpatine in this case. His effectiveness is likely to vary from opponent to opponent depending upon their respective strengths and weaknesses. Mother Talzin was able to exchange blows with Windu as well for instance - I am sure that she isn't BESTEST GREATEST DUELIST EVA

It's also important to note that the Emperor's Guards were significantly amped by the Dark Side nexus of Dromund Kaas and by Vitiate himself whilst Meetra was severely weakened by the Dark Side nexus. Yet, she still managed to out duel both of them.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

on June 19th 2020, 11:09 pm
^^^

Fair judgement.
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Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu Empty Re: Meetra Surik vs Mace Windu

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