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Latham2000
Latham2000
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Best Batman adaptations? Empty Best Batman adaptations?

on June 11th 2020, 10:30 am
The title is self explanatory: what are the best Batman adaptations, but if you want further clarification, I'm specifically asking which Batman adaptations are the best in terms of story quality involving Batman, how faithful they are to the source material, and who plays Batman the best,

1. Live action.

2. Animated.

3. Live action and animated and video games.


Last edited by Latham2000 on June 11th 2020, 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
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on June 11th 2020, 10:36 am
1 - Ben Affleck (I do think that Bale is superior and like him much more but Nolan Trilogy is not really faithful to comics)

2 and 3 - Anything with Conroy
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
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on June 11th 2020, 4:08 pm
1. TDK Trilogy.

2. BTAS.

3. Arkham Games.


Last edited by Sjuttiosju on June 12th 2020, 6:10 am; edited 2 times in total
NotAA3
NotAA3
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on June 11th 2020, 4:28 pm
Live-action is TDK trilogy.

Animation is TAS.

Animation + Live Action + Videogames is the Arkham Games.


Last edited by NotAA3 on June 11th 2020, 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Latham2000
Latham2000
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on June 11th 2020, 4:33 pm
I've edited the 3 with the addition of video games.
SithSauce
SithSauce
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on June 11th 2020, 6:04 pm
I haven't watched much of the animated series so I can't really comment.
Batman Begins and the Arkham games are my favourite adaptations.
Thrawn
Thrawn

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on June 11th 2020, 7:38 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Best Live Action Batman - Michael Keaton.
Best Animated Batman - Kevin Conroy.

1. Batman 89 - Still the best live action Batman. It captures the violence, the grittiness, the set design by Anton Furst (Industrial Gothic), the sound-stages and miniatures give the film an otherworldly comic book feel. 

The animated series took Heavily from the 89 movie.

Despite that fact that this Batman killed some people (which feels authentic to this version), every other aspect of the character is nailed. Keaton's Batman tells Vickie Vale at the end of the movie he's not going to stop being Batman. We find out in Batman Returns their relationship failed because Bruce wouldn't stop being Batman.

I love story. Batman creates the Joker and has to deal with it.

Joker's methodical plan to take over Gotham is straight out of the comics.

Take over Grissom's gang.

Take over all the underworld in Gotham by killing the heads of the rest of the mafia families.

Spread Joker toxin by contaminating cosmetics. Batman foils this by using his detective skills.
Bale's version spent the entire second film trying to give to up the mantle of Batman and get married to Rachel Dawes. Heath Ledger's Joker is awesome, but Bales Batman is not actually Batman in my opinion.

Plan to kill thousands of people in Gotham Square by luring people in with the promise of money and then kill them with Joker gas.

People like to say Batman 89 has no plot, but I find it to be fairly methodical overall.


2. Animated is of course TAS. Probably the definitive version of Batman.

Animated movies is the 2 part adaptation of Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. This is probably my favorite piece of Batman media animated or Live action.

3. The Arkham games. Arkham City is the crown jewel. Asylum is also A+, Origins nails the Joker. Arkham Knight is an adequate end to the saga but certainly two steps behind the other entries.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
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on June 11th 2020, 10:39 pm
1-TDK trilogy

2- Batman TAS and the new adventures


3-Arkham Games
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on June 12th 2020, 12:36 am
by best do u mean what he shouldve acted and looked like, or do u mean how accurate it is in comparison with the comics? 

i like the serious tone that the nolan trilogy brings, and the overall good plot to it, but i would never have picked such a small actor for the role. honestly, batfleck is personally where it shines as far as physicals go. attitude... hmm. tough one. comics batman is far more serious than most live action ones, so i guess none of them are accurate in that sense.
Latham2000
Latham2000
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on June 12th 2020, 8:46 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:by best do u mean what he shouldve acted and looked like, or do u mean how accurate it is in comparison with the comics? 

i like the serious tone that the nolan trilogy brings, and the overall good plot to it, but i would never have picked such a small actor for the role. honestly, batfleck is personally where it shines as far as physicals go. attitude... hmm. tough one. comics batman is far more serious than most live action ones, so i guess none of them are accurate in that sense.

This is what I meant by best:

@Latham2000 wrote:If you want further clarification, I'm specifically asking which Batman adaptations are the best in terms of story quality involving Batman, how faithful they are to the source material, and who plays Batman the best

But because you want even further clarification, I'll put this way: When I said best, I was asking for how good these adaptations are as narratives; how well they respect the source material (i.e. personality traits of the characters from the Batman comics as well as themes and messages from the Batman comics themselves); how good the performances of the actors who played Batman.

I hope that answers your question.
Latham2000
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on June 13th 2020, 9:26 am
@Thrawn wrote:Best Live Action Batman - Michael Keaton.
Best Animated Batman - Kevin Conroy.

1. Batman 89 - Still the best live action Batman. It captures the violence, the grittiness, the set design by Anton Furst (Industrial Gothic), the sound-stages and miniatures give the film an otherworldly comic book feel. 

The animated series took Heavily from the 89 movie.

Despite that fact that this Batman killed some people (which feels authentic to this version), every other aspect of the character is nailed. Keaton's Batman tells Vickie Vale at the end of the movie he's not going to stop being Batman. We find out in Batman Returns their relationship failed because Bruce wouldn't stop being Batman.

I love story. Batman creates the Joker and has to deal with it.

Joker's methodical plan to take over Gotham is straight out of the comics.

Take over Grissom's gang.

Take over all the underworld in Gotham by killing the heads of the rest of the mafia families.

Spread Joker toxin by contaminating cosmetics. Batman foils this by using his detective skills.
Bale's version spent the entire second film trying to give to up the mantle of Batman and get married to Rachel Dawes. Heath Ledger's Joker is awesome, but Bales Batman is not actually Batman in my opinion.

I haven't watched Batman 1989 and Batman Returns for many years, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this video, not that I think it's correct:



Also, I have something to dispute:

@Thrawn wrote:Bale's version spent the entire second film trying to give to up the mantle of Batman and get married to Rachel Dawes.

No he didn't. Bruce contemplated giving up the mantle of Batman because he thought Harvey Dent had a more efficient way of dismantling Gotham's criminal underworld, thereby making Bruce's career as Batman obsolete because Batman wouldn't be needed, providing the opportunity for Bruce to live a "normal life" with Rachel Dawes.
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on June 13th 2020, 12:06 pm
Adam West and Kevin Conroy.
Thrawn
Thrawn

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on June 13th 2020, 9:59 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Latham2000

HiTopFilms is trash. I've been aware of him for about a year. I've watched a few of his videos (including the one you posted). 

His critiques and insight are average high school level at best. 

The Batman video you posted above has some factual errors in it. He also repeatedly makes declarations about his subjective points as if they're facts. And then doesn't back them up or elaborate. 

It's very shallow reasoning. 

It's a pathetic video, quite honestly. But then again I'm over twice his age, I've lived long enough I'm on my third or fourth reboot of Batman and many other franchises I grew up on. 

I have the benefit of hindsight and a very different perspective. 

Kind of like when I watch Star Wars. I was watching the OT for 20 years before the Prequels came out (I like the Prequels). 

When I watch the throne room fight in ROTJ, I don't interpret it through the lense of the Sith Rule of Two (It didn't exist) and I don't see Darth Sidious, I see the Emperor. 

That movie has a different feel to it when viewed that way. 

For two decades that's how the world knew the OT.

----------

I may respond to your other point later if I feel like or remember. I'm at work right now.  Best Batman adaptations? 1289255181
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
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on June 14th 2020, 3:18 am
I think the most accurate Batman adaptation thus far was Origins, even over TAS since it tried not to butcher anyone but electrocutioner who was already kind of a joke. Yes a young Bruce beat Slade, but I'm not sure that is so inaccurate. Marv Wolfman (the creator of Deathstroke and writer for Nightwing and Bruce) has them fight a decently long bout in "City of Assassins") it's practically a stalemate
Save for the fact as Slade mentions he's enhanced, he just hits harder, faster, and lasts longer. So Bruce with his unorthodox style beating slade as he did shouldn't be off the table. Everyone already knows they nailed Joker, Bane, and pretty much every character in the game. Even giving Anarchy (one of my favs) a good portrayal
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
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on June 14th 2020, 6:42 am
@Thrawn:

HiTopFilms is trash. I've been aware of him for about a year. I've watched a few of his videos (including the one you posted).

His critiques and insight are average high school level at best.

The Batman video you posted above has some factual errors in it. He also repeatedly makes declarations about his subjective points as if they're facts. And then doesn't back them up or elaborate.

It's very shallow reasoning.

It's a pathetic video, quite honestly.

Facts. HiTop's arguments and analysis are shallow af and he's overly dramatic in his videos to the point where it becomes legitimately cringeworthy.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
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on June 14th 2020, 6:47 am
Up, HiTop sucks ass. His Far From Home review took the cringe to levels it should not be possible to reach.
Latham2000
Latham2000
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on June 14th 2020, 8:12 am
Yeah his criticisms of MCU Spider-Man are superficial for the most part, I'm not even that well versed in Batman but his review of Batman 1989 was suspect to me.
Thrawn
Thrawn

Best Batman adaptations? Empty Re: Best Batman adaptations?

on June 14th 2020, 10:28 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Latham2000 wrote:Yeah his criticisms of MCU Spider-Man are superficial for the most part, I'm not even that well versed in Batman but his review of Batman 1989 was suspect to me.

In the Batman video you posted above, he questions what the Joker's motivations and plan are in the movie.

The Joker - and the movie - outright tells you.

Now either he's ignoring that rather simple piece of information (that the movie gives you) to make a disingenuous point, or he's just stupid.

The Joker's motivation was to run Gotham into the ground by causing as much death and destruction as he could. Again, the Joker outright states it in the movie. He's about chaos and death.

 Step 1 - Kill Grissam and take over his organization including Axis Chemicals.  

Step 2 - Consolidate control over all of the Gotham underworld mob families. He kills the few heads of the mob families that oppose him.  

Step 3 - Poison citizens with Joker Toxin. Batman actually stops this. It's a plot right out of the comics and animated series.

Step 4 - Kill as many people as possible during Gotham's Birthday bash. He plans to do this by luring them in with greed and killing them with Joker Gas. Exposing society's hypocrisy.

HiTop then complains (?) or questions (?) if the Joker's defining characteristic is narcissism. He couches this as a negative and shallow criticism. 


Uh...yeah. Narcissism/Ego are a pretty big part of the Joker's personality.


That's true in all media from Batman 89, the Arkham Games, TAS, the Adam West series, and the comics.

The Joker doesn't want anyone to kill Batman except him because of his ego. The Joker kills people with Joker venom which gives them his grin...because of ego.  

This is basic psychology and character study 101.


He criticizes the film for not giving Batman an arc. A lot of main characters don't have arcs - Indiana Jones, Christopher Reeves Superman, Clint Eastwood's the Man with No Name, Marty McFly from BTTF (the first movie), Henry Hill from Goodfellas, etc.

Characters don't need arcs and a lack thereof is neither good nor bad; it depends on the story you're telling. 

I don't need Batman to have an arc. Batman works best for me when he's a fully formed and driven character.

Bruce Wayne has crystal clear motivations the moment his parents were murdered. There's no need or room for a character arc there. He knows what he wants and what his motivations are from that moment on. That's not a weakness in and of itself.

Batman has no character arcs in the animated series either. The series starts and he's fully formed with no origin story (unless you watch the animated Mask of the Phantasm). Each episode is a stand alone affair. It's the greatest animated show of all time.

HiTop wants to be a writer and filmmaker badly. The fact that he apparently can't understand how you can write different kinds of characters or tell a story without the main character having a define arc is telling. 

He also complains that the movie doesn't spoon feed you Batman's origin until third act of the movie, and he uses this as an objective point against the movie.

The fact that we get Batman's motivation in the third act of Batman 89 is fine. There's nothing wrong about revealing a character's motivation in the third act. Some movies reveal character motivations in the last seconds of a movie. Others don't reveal them at all. Again, it's not necessarily good or bad. It's a choice that can work depending on the execution or the type of story you're trying to tell.


------------------

The few videos of his I've watched have had the same level of quality.

At best his logic and reasoning are what a high school student or college freshman would turn in to a teacher thinking it's deep insightful critique. 

At worst his criticisms are simply unintelligent.  

A lot of the answers to the questions he asks are outright stated in the movies he reviews. Marvel and DC movies are not complex or hard to understand. Some of them have nuance and subtlety, but even that isn't hard to grasp.

Mind you, I'm not a genius, but I have not been impressed with his efforts at film critique to say the least.
Latham2000
Latham2000
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on June 14th 2020, 10:40 am
@Thrawn Would you consider writing something about the original trilogy from the lenses that you (and the world) had from the times that the Prequel and Sequel trilogy had not been released?
Thrawn
Thrawn

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on June 14th 2020, 11:05 am
@Latham2000 wrote:@Thrawn Would you consider writing something about the original trilogy from the lenses that you (and the world) had from the times that the Prequel and Sequel trilogy had not been released?
Maybe. I have a few random thoughts. 

It'll be another time.  Best Batman adaptations? 228124001 There's a few threads on here I'd like to reply to first. 

For now, I've got to head off to bed. The sun is up and that means sleep. I work 7pm to 7am 12 hours shifts every weekend. Tonight is my "Friday".  Best Batman adaptations? 1289255181
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

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on August 3rd 2020, 12:14 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Thrawn wrote:Best Live Action Batman - Michael Keaton.
Best Animated Batman - Kevin Conroy.

1. Batman 89 - Still the best live action Batman. It captures the violence, the grittiness, the set design by Anton Furst (Industrial Gothic), the sound-stages and miniatures give the film an otherworldly comic book feel. 

The animated series took Heavily from the 89 movie.

Despite that fact that this Batman killed some people (which feels authentic to this version), every other aspect of the character is nailed. Keaton's Batman tells Vickie Vale at the end of the movie he's not going to stop being Batman. We find out in Batman Returns their relationship failed because Bruce wouldn't stop being Batman.

I love story. Batman creates the Joker and has to deal with it.

Joker's methodical plan to take over Gotham is straight out of the comics.

Take over Grissom's gang.

Take over all the underworld in Gotham by killing the heads of the rest of the mafia families.

Spread Joker toxin by contaminating cosmetics. Batman foils this by using his detective skills.
Bale's version spent the entire second film trying to give to up the mantle of Batman and get married to Rachel Dawes. Heath Ledger's Joker is awesome, but Bales Batman is not actually Batman in my opinion.

Plan to kill thousands of people in Gotham Square by luring people in with the promise of money and then kill them with Joker gas.

People like to say Batman 89 has no plot, but I find it to be fairly methodical overall.


2. Animated is of course TAS. Probably the definitive version of Batman.

Animated movies is the 2 part adaptation of Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. This is probably my favorite piece of Batman media animated or Live action.

3. The Arkham games. Arkham City is the crown jewel. Asylum is also A+, Origins nails the Joker. Arkham Knight is an adequate end to the saga but certainly two steps behind the other entries.
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