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lorenzo.r.2nd
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on June 10th 2020, 1:07 am
Alright guys, I think its time I did this. Its been on my mind, the shows come back around (its on netflix), and I started Korra, so it seemed like a good time. I actually was unsure about a few things, such as how to deal with haxes that have almost no counters (a powerful blood bender can not only overpower other less skilled/ weaker blood benders, he can also be considered unstoppable unless there is an avatar who can activate his avatar state quickly enough around), so I decided to leave out characters who explicitly only use such techniques and the techniques themselves (Amon is also a water bender, so he would not be left out of the list because of that, for example; whether his feats are good enough to put him on said list though, are another matter). Other characters that will not allowed are 'super powerful entities' and featless characters (unless said character has enough statements to give him a spot, such as other avatars, for example), including avatars using the avatar state and outside amps (full moons and comets). The list will not consist of simply powerful character, but also skilled ones in both bending and fighting (Ty Lee has outsped and outfought skilled benders before, for example), intelligence (something useful in a fight, of course, like Sokka, and not useless shit, btw), and even experience. 

Hypothesizing is allowed, but no wankery please. We will be voting for the first spot first, so think about who do u guys think is the strongest bender in the verse, and vote below.

PS avatars are allowed, but cannot use any element aside from their original one (air for Aang, water for Korra, earth for Kyoshi, etc etc)

SETTING- Think of the setting as a place where there is literally everything for all sorts of benders to use. Not an exact location per se, but a sort of place where they have no restrictions and can make full use of their abilities. There is plenty of water, plenty of ice, plenty of rock, plenty of iron, plenty of lava, plenty of mud, plenty of fire, plenty of clouds, and of course, plenty of air.


Last edited by lorenzo.r.2nd on June 12th 2020, 2:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
Master Azronger
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on June 10th 2020, 3:06 am
So are Avatars included if they don't use the Avatar State?

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lorenzo.r.2nd
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on June 10th 2020, 2:29 pm
Azronger wrote:So are Avatars included if they don't use the Avatar State?
yes they are. I was also unsure on giving them the ability to use all elements aside from their natural one, but now that i think about it, its quite unfair. Ill make so that each avatar can only use their original element.
Master Azronger
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on June 10th 2020, 2:32 pm
I mean that kind of defeats the point if you have to give handicaps to certain people.

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lorenzo.r.2nd
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on June 10th 2020, 2:56 pm
Azronger wrote:I mean that kind of defeats the point if you have to give handicaps to certain people.
the list would consist of mostly avatars if that is indeed the case. it would be clearly unfair.
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on June 10th 2020, 11:25 pm
Well just exclude the Avatars then.

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lorenzo.r.2nd
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on June 11th 2020, 1:50 am
Azronger wrote:Well just exclude the Avatars then.
OR we do it my way, which is simple and clear and actually works. im sure aang and korra have enough good feats using original elements to be at least considered here.
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on June 11th 2020, 2:08 am
I think a no avatar list would be better personally.
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on June 11th 2020, 6:02 am
^

If you have to handicap a certain group of characters just so others can be on the list, then it's not a legitimate list to begin with. And the list would still be dominated by Avatars even if they're restricted to just one element.

Also, a strict top 10 is not possible. A lot of matches have a rock-paper-scissors dynamic.

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Sjuttiosju
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on June 11th 2020, 7:45 am
ATLA isn't SW. There is no definitive top 10 list. Some elements are better suited to dealing with each other than others and thus you'll end up with outcomes in matches that don't follow ABC logic.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on June 11th 2020, 2:26 pm
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ill answer all 3 here

If it does seem better than leaving in some character while taking away their huge advantages, then sure, ill do it. @KOB

@Az thats the case for a lot things, and not just Avatar. we simply need to find to who can beat the most characters who are also on said list, and put said character at number 1.

@SJwhateverthefuck i answered urs above as well.
Master Azronger
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on June 12th 2020, 2:54 am
So if Avatars are excluded, then Ozai is number 1.

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HellfireUnit
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on June 12th 2020, 3:17 am
Nah, No way Ozai>Prime Toph
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on June 12th 2020, 3:18 am
Ozai or Iroh, more likely Ozai
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on June 12th 2020, 4:01 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Nah, No way Ozai>Prime Toph

Why not?

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on June 12th 2020, 4:43 am
Ozai was getting cucked by Zuko (not saying Zuko beats him in anyway) who used lightning redirection. Ozai taken out by surprise proved to be an incompetent fella, losing almost to both Aang and Zuko. Toph, the greatest earthbender ever existed using metalbending which Ozai has no knowledge of shit stomps him. Plus I don't see a reason Ozai without Sozin be a threat as it has been implied and isn't above Iroh at all.
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on June 12th 2020, 4:44 am
Aside from that, Yakone would probably stomp everyone.
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on June 12th 2020, 4:49 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Ozai was getting cucked by Zuko (not saying Zuko beats him in anyway) who used lightning redirection. Ozai taken out by surprise proved to be an incompetent fella, losing almost to both Aang and Zuko. 
Why is a tactical error that that can only manifest against other firebenders relevant against an earth bender?

 Toph, the greatest earthbender ever existed using metalbending which Ozai has no knowledge of shit stomps him.

Metal bending isn't very useful outside of an urban setting. I guess the terrain needs to be defined in before you start talking about possible scenarios. Also why is being the greatest earth bender relevant against possibly the greatest fire bender ever?
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on June 12th 2020, 4:56 am
Why is a tactical error that that can only manifest against other firebenders relevant against an earth bender?

What I am implying is that Ozai's combat skills aren't very bright and showing his incompetency against surprise attacks, I don't see him being able to counter the haxx Toph will put on table.


Metal bending isn't very useful outside of an urban setting.

Except that metal bending can manipulate the metals in your body, lol.
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on June 12th 2020, 4:58 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Ozai was getting cucked by Zuko (not saying Zuko beats him in anyway) who used lightning redirection. Ozai taken out by surprise proved to be an incompetent fella, losing almost to both Aang and Zuko. Toph, the greatest earthbender ever existed using metalbending which Ozai has no knowledge of shit stomps him. Plus I don't see a reason Ozai without Sozin be a threat as it has been implied and isn't above Iroh at all.

I'm by default registering this as a troll comment, so I won't indulge it, but I will post the facts about Ozai being above Iroh (and any other firebender, including dragons) for reference for others.

Avatar Extras: Book 3 - Fire wrote:Fact: Ozai is the most powerful firebender. Period.

[...]

Ozai is well known as the most powerful firebender in the world.

[...]

Did you know? Ozai was the most powerful firebender in the world ...

... Until now. Aang is officially a better firebender.
[in reference to Aang entering the Avatar State]

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on June 12th 2020, 5:32 am
I'm by default registering this as a troll comment, so I won't indulge it, but I will post the facts about Ozai being above Iroh (and any other firebender, including dragons) for reference for others.

Avatar Extras: Book 3 - Fire wrote:Fact: Ozai is the most powerful firebender. Period.

[...]

Ozai is well known as the most powerful firebender in the world.

[...]

Did you know? Ozai was the most powerful firebender in the world ...

... Until now. Aang is officially a better firebender.
[in reference to Aang entering the Avatar State]

And? Ozai may be the most powerful yet he cannot conjure blue flames like Azula does, which is superior to orange ones. Plus, Ozai may be the most powerful firebender, but it doesn't mean that he can utilize from his strength as good as Iroh, who is shown to be way more skilled and trained himself further with Order of the White Lotus and other bending techniques such as waterbending. Iroh has the necessary strength, superior skill and knowledge. You can indulge it, no worries. But despite being branded as "the most powerful firebender" Ozai has shown to be crappy on screen.
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on June 12th 2020, 5:34 am
@HellfireUnit Alright, seeing as you're apparently serious...

@HellfireUnit wrote:Ozai was getting cucked by Zuko (not saying Zuko beats him in anyway) who used lightning redirection. Ozai taken out by surprise proved to be an incompetent fella, losing almost to both Aang and Zuko.

Ozai was surprised that they were able to employ lightning redirection, as it is a move that did not exist until Iroh invented it in his travels after his son's death. Against Zuko, he did not know it was possible, and against Aang, he would not have anticipated that the technique would have been passed down to him. Zuko himself was caught off-guard by Azula having suddenly learned the ability in Smoke and Shadow; he did not expect her to retaliate so he got hit. It does not reflect badly on either character, nor is it an indication they are incompetent?

Avatar top 10 list  7400294-azula%20quick%20lightning%201

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@HellfireUnit wrote:Toph, the greatest earthbender ever existed using metalbending which Ozai has no knowledge of shit stomps him.

Substantiation needed. Plenty of people have metalbending, including complete fodder. It is not an automatic win card.

@HellfireUnit wrote:Plus I don't see a reason Ozai without Sozin be a threat as it has been implied and isn't above Iroh at all.

Or maybe those "implications" in themselves are a reason to believe that Ozai is a pretty substantial threat without the Comet? Like, you know, Iroh conceding that he might not even be capable of beating Ozai? Or the statements outright calling Ozai the most powerful firebender? Or his unparalleled control of chi energy in his body as manifested through dual lightning generation, a feat which no other firebender has replicated? Or the sheer violence and potency of his lightning, which matches that of Sozin's Comet-empowered Azula? Or the fact that he can simply sense when his firebending has returned, whereas Azula has to hear the lightning explosion to deduce that the eclipse was over, denoting a much deeper attunement to fire than her? Or the fact that his flight under the Comet in itself demands an immensely high, pre-existing skill level, which implies he is either a) already capable of flight without the Comet or b) already so freakishly skilled that he's able to accommodate his pre-existing skillset to his enhanced firebending to successfully fly and perform mid-air acrobatics effectively enough to keep pace with Aang, possibly the most agile and evasive fighter in the franchise, on his first try, an accomplishment only partially replicated by Zaheer, a martial artist whom Zuko said to be able to take down any bender?

Ozai is not featless. There are plenty of data points from which he was construct an informative framework around him without Sozin's Comet. Everything points to him being the most powerful, skilled, and masterful firebender out there.

@HellfireUnit wrote:What I am implying is that Ozai's combat skills aren't very bright and showing his incompetency against surprise attacks, I don't see him being able to counter the haxx Toph will put on table.

What hax? On the contrary, Toph is blind and cannot detect fire. Ozai can glide around with his fire jets so Toph would not be able to sense his body movement and thus not be able to anticipate his attacks. She's extremely poorly equipped to take down Ozai.

@HellfireUnit wrote:Except that metal bending can manipulate the metals in your body, lol.

Metalbending has never used like this in a combat situation. If Toph were capable of this, he should have been able to escape Yakone's bloodbending grip. In fact, she notes to Korra that she's unable to remove the mercury from her system if she keeps trashing around, which indicates that Toph is unable to manipulate the metal inside a moving target.

Not to mention that metalbending isn't actual "metal" bending; it's bending the little traces of earth inside the metal. Not even prime Toph could bend pure metals like platinum, and the metals inside people's bodies are pure. They don't have earth in them, so it's outright impossible for Toph to bend them anyway.


Last edited by Azronger on June 12th 2020, 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total

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on June 12th 2020, 5:39 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:And? Ozai may be the most powerful yet he cannot conjure blue flames like Azula does, which is superior to orange ones.

Blue flames are hotter than orange flames, true, but I don't see how this reflects badly on Ozai when he's more powerful than her regardless, or show that Iroh is above Ozai when he himself is unable to generate blue flames like Azula? Like why are you knocking Ozai for something that Iroh can't do either as proof that Iroh beats him?

@HellfireUnit wrote:Plus, Ozai may be the most powerful firebender, but it doesn't mean that he can utilize from his strength as good as Iroh, who is shown to be way more skilled and trained himself further with Order of the White Lotus and other bending techniques such as waterbending. Iroh has the necessary strength, superior skill and knowledge. You can indulge it, no worries.

Citation needed on Iroh being much more skilled and knowledgeable than Ozai.

@HellfireUnit wrote:But despite being branded as "the most powerful firebender" Ozai has shown to be crappy on screen.

lol

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on June 12th 2020, 8:04 am
Ozai is number 1 probably. Doesn't know about number 2 tho, maybe Iroh or Bumi? Also Zaheer could be a pain in ass for many benders because of his flight.
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on June 12th 2020, 9:02 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd What is the environment? Waterbenders are very circumstantial fighters.

Also, I'm still confused as to whether Avatars are allowed. The OP says yes but your post to KOB says no.

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