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Bourbon
Bourbon

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:21 am
Who wins and why? Give reasons please.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:47 am
Valkorion one-shots.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:18 am
Valk because he just has far superior feats and Plagueis doesn't get any scaling from him just because of some blurb quote that doesn't really apply to Valk
The Rich Man
The Rich Man

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:03 am
Valkorion
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:13 am
Plagueis oneshots
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:07 am
Valkorion one-shot...
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:35 am
@NotAA3 wrote:Valkorion one-shots.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:26 am
Valk cannot one-shot plagueis:
And so he had stretched out—indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated—to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.But ultimately to no end. The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases. (Darth Plagueis)

Where an extremely low midi-chlorian count might have bolstered the odds of survival, nature had instead made the ysalimir species strong in the Force. So strong, in fact, that several of the creatures acting in concert could create a Force bubble encompassing kilometers rather than meters. In a sense, the Jedi Order had done the same on a galactic scale, Plagueis believed, by bathing the galaxy in the energy of the light side of the Force; or more accurately by fashioning a Force bubble that had prevented infiltration by the dark side

The question of whether he and Sidious had discovered something new or rediscovered something ancient was beside the point. All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:27 am
@SnowxElf wrote:Valk cannot one-shot plagueis:
And so he had stretched out—indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated—to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.But ultimately to no end. The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases. (Darth Plagueis)

Where an extremely low midi-chlorian count might have bolstered the odds of survival, nature had instead made the ysalimir species strong in the Force. So strong, in fact, that several of the creatures acting in concert could create a Force bubble encompassing kilometers rather than meters. In a sense, the Jedi Order had done the same on a galactic scale, Plagueis believed, by bathing the galaxy in the energy of the light side of the Force; or more accurately by fashioning a Force bubble that had prevented infiltration by the dark side

The question of whether he and Sidious had discovered something new or rediscovered something ancient was beside the point. All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.

Friend,

Things like that do not prove anything in regards to HOW Darth Plagueis would hold up in single combat; those statements are alluding to cosmic effects produced by DARK SCIENCES and a RITUAL respectively. While very interesting from storytelling standpoint and rarely explored in this manner in numerous books, it is possible to understand why such practices may produce cosmic effects.

The Force have two notable aspects (Living and Cosmic):

Valkorion vs Plagueis The-Force

The Living Force is the byproduct of the energy of all living beings in the galaxy. This aspect of the Force is also the major source of Jedi and Sith powers as well as that of other factions. The Living Force ultimately FEED the Cosmic Force which transcends normal perceptions of time and space (this is the aspect of the Force which is alluded to have a WILL of its own). Nevertheless, if powerful Force-users partake in unholy practices, their actions are very likely to produce cosmic effects. It is due to this reason why the balance of the Force have shifted between the Light and Dark through the ages, and not only in the era of Darth Plagueis and Palpatine.

For this reason, some believe that the Jedi and Sith must share an ultimately common origin, and their creation in the distant past embodies the opposition between the light and dark sides. As their relative power has increased or diminished over the centuries, it has only reinforced another deeply held belief about the Force: that it has a balance, and that this balance can shift over time.

From (Star Wars: Force and Destiny: Core Rulebook)

+

The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Tenebrae would have produced considerable cosmic effects with his dreadful NATHEMA experiment around 4999 BBY since it is clearly stated to have resulted in the production of the largest nexus of dark side energy in the galaxy for like EVER:

Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Mediraas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Centuries later, Revan by virtue of his extraordinary attunement to the Force, was able to see perceive things with greater clarity than the others and identified Tenebrae (The Sith Emperor) as the foremost source of imbalance in the Force in his time and that CHAMPIONS OF LIGHT will continue to emerge and challenge him until he is taken down:

The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion.

From (Revan, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

- and that is exactly what happens.

Balance of the Force continued to shift in post-Palpatine times as well including during the era of Darth krayt.

Coming back to combat-applicable potential of Darth Plagueis:

While he accepted that he and Plagueis were more than equal to the most powerful of the Jedi Order, he understood that they were no match for their combined strength—the Sith imperative notwithstanding. The Jedi would fall only with the full collaboration of the dark side; that was, only when the dark side of the Force was ready and willing to conspire in their downfall.

Taken from Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

Palpatine mused that he and his Master Darth Plagueis would be capable of dealing with any Jedi in person but they would not dare to challenge the Jedi Order out in the open; that both should continue to undermine the Jedi Order from the shadows through dark practices and by corrupting The Republic. In the meantime, Darth Plagueis was in pursuit of IMMORTALITY (to replicate Tenebrae (The Sith Emperor) or something to similar effect) but this matter SPOOKED Palpatine and he decided to take matters into his own hands....

I shall give you another ANALOGY here:-

Valkorion vs Plagueis The-Plague-of-Lord-Vivicar

Lord Vivicar unleashed a PLAGUE so powerful that it threatened to COLLAPSE the Jedi Order all by itself. Every Jedi was vulnerable to the effects of this mysterious PLAGUE and some of the most talented Jedi Masters had fallen victim early on. Conventional teachings of CONTROL and SENSE were not sufficient to counter this PLAGUE, and the Jedi even went as far as to commune with spirits of some ancient but legendary Jedi Masters including Bastila Shan and Nomi Sunrider and they were rather surprised to learn that how powerful this PLAGUE was. By the time the most promising Jedi Consular of the era discovered a way to address this PLAGUE and approached Lord Vivicar, hundreds of Jedi had fallen under his spell and his power continued to grow consequently. The legendary Jedi Consular lost much of his strength in addressing this threat with a special technique, and therefore earned the mantle of The Barsen'thor for her "sacrifice."

The Jedi Order was finally SAFE but not for long; an even bigger threat SURFACED in the shape of the CHILDREN of the EMPEROR who were now operating within the Jedi Order (select few were members of the Jedi High Council as well) and also in various institutions of the Republic. The Jedi were unable to SENSE and UNMASK these unwitting pwns around them and outside - a sign that Tenebrae have substantially grown in power and was expanding his FOOTPRINT across the galaxy.

Now understand that Tenebrae was the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy, in history, and ever, and he would have ONE-SHOTTED Lord Vivicar as well. He was on another level in comparison to The Barsen'thor as well.

----

The duo of Darth Plagueis and Palpatine were not capable of REPLICATING even Lord Vivicar let alone Tenebrae (The Sith Emperor) in the aspect of coming close to COLLAPSING the Jedi Order through DARK PRACTICES from AFAR...

Why Lord Vivicar and Tenebrae FAILED respectively because when YOU challenge The Jedi Order and The Republic out in the open, you are very likely to be DISCOVERED and TAKEN DOWN at some point; they have too many to throw at you and not even burp. The duo of Darth Plagueis and Palpatine had realized as much; they had to adopt more subtle methods to deal with the threat...


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:58 am; edited 8 times in total (Reason for editing : Added new content.)
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:35 am
If the MM hype is to be true, then Plagueis wins
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:02 am
@Dolph wrote:If the MM hype is to be true, then Plagueis wins

While Darth Plagueis certainly learned how to manipulate MM of other living beings; he demonstrated this capability on Ars Veruna (king of Naboo) but Veruna wasn't a powerful Force-user or even a Force-sensitive to begin with. Veruna had no way of defending himself from applications of the Force.

Ancient Force-users were also able to affect midichlorians of other living beings (via Force Drain and derivatives). Excellent information in the following blog: https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2804-a-case-for-the-neo-antediluvians

Tenebrae (Valkorion) is a self-sufficient intangible presence (an ENTITY), not a living being. MM is useless against him.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:23 am
Valkorion can honestly probably one-shot five Plagueis' simultaneously.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:27 am
Jaggarath wrote:Plagueis can honestly probably one-shot five Valkorions simultaneously.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:47 am
Jaggarath wrote:Valkorion can honestly probably one-shot five Plagueis' simultaneously.
Damn would you really go that far? I do believe Valk is solidly above Plagueis though
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Level Two
Level Two

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:56 pm
Jaggarath wrote:Valkorion can honestly probably one-shot five Plagueis' simultaneously.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

on Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:48 pm
@XSUPREMEXSKILLZ wrote:
Jaggarath wrote:Valkorion can honestly probably one-shot five Plagueis' simultaneously.

I am interested on why you believe so.
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Valkorion vs Plagueis Empty Re: Valkorion vs Plagueis

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