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Latham2000
Latham2000
Level One
Level One

The truth about end times Empty The truth about end times

on May 8th 2020, 9:20 am
Hello again, at the start of this month, I posted a refutation on commonly parroted misconception of the doctrine of Jihad, which received no adequate rebuttal from anyone, not even from the white supremacist himself. Since we are sadly going through the coronavirus pandemic, I believe that now is the appropriate time to talk about end times, specially from an Islamic perspective. The Christian Bible has a lot of half truths about end times, but what the Christian Bible is fundamentallly correct about is that Jesus will return and that there will be an Antichrist, amongst a few other details, but most of what it teaches is falsehood. The Jesus of the Christian Bible is not the trye Jesus, but is misrepresentation of Jesus that is a product of conjecture. Sura An-Nisa says this in the following verses:

"That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge; That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;- For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah.s Way;- That they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men's substance wrongfully;- we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment. But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee: And (especially) those who establish regular prayer and practise regular charity and believe in Allah and in the Last Day: To them shall We soon give a great reward." — Holy Qur'an 4:156-162 intepretated by Yusuf Ali.

As you can hopefully understand, Jesus never died by cruxifixion, people mistakenly believed that this happened because a different man (most likely Judas), was put on the cross, and people thought that was Jesus, but in reality, what happened is that Jesus was being attacked, and Allah rescued him, raising him to the heavens, whilst the Jews were crucifying a different man. Here are more verses:

"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." Holy Qur'an 9:28-31 intepretated by Yusuf Ali.

Jesus is not the son of God, nor is he "God" himself (if he was God even in the Bible, show me where Jesus says "I am God worship me"), he was just a messenger of Allah i.e. a Prophet:

"Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" [i]— Holy Qur'an 5:75 intepretated by [/i][i]Yusuf Ali.[/i]

"And remember We took from the prophets their covenant: As (We did) from thee: from Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary: We took from them a solemn covenant: That (Allah) may question the (custodians) of Truth concerning the Truth they (were charged with): And He has prepared for the Unbelievers a grievous Penalty." — Holy Qur'an 33:7-8 intepretated by Yusuf Ali.

With that out of the way, Jesus in Islam is referred to as Isa. Islam teaches a lot of things about Isa, the Islamic Jesus, has a pivotal role in end times. There is also an Antichrist in Islam, known as Dajjal. Isa and the Mahdi, will fight Dajjal, but not only will they fight Dajjal and his devillish followers. Besides that, Isa will help the Mahdi convert to entire world to Islam and abolish the Jizyah tax (look to Quran 9:29), given that there will not only be no doubt that he is indeed the real Jesus, there will also be no doubt that Islam is the truth:

"Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus
. He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizya. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him."

Source — Sunan Abi Dawood 4324.

"Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts)."

Source — Sahih Al-Bukhari 2476.

"Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts."

Source — Sahih Al-Bukhari 2222.

"Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them."


Source — Sahih Al-Bukhari 3448.

"Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah said:

By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill swine and abolish Jizya and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it."


Source — Sahih Muslim, 155a. 

In conclusion, I think this forum knows adequate amount of information about end times, and as Surah Al-Isra said: "وَقُلْ جَآءَ ٱلْحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ ٱلْبَٰطِلُ ۚ إِنَّ ٱلْبَٰطِلَ كَانَ زَهُوقً"
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

The truth about end times Empty Re: The truth about end times

on May 8th 2020, 9:41 am
Quite sure jesus refers to himself as the word in the bible, which is something only God can say about himself. And judas killed himself. He did not die of crucifixion. And jesus kinda HAD to die in the cross for it to even have a meaning. He had to get tortured and what not. IDK where this is said, but the angels wanted to rescue jesus, and they would if he called for them, but he didnt. Plus, he does not need to be "God" to be "God in Christianity. All 3 of them (father, son, holy spirit) are God, but there is only one 'God' God, there is only one 'Jesus' God, and there is only one 'Holy Spirit' God, and they together form the 'Holy Trinity' God. I believe that there is some sort of hierarchy in said Trinity (Jesus shows reverence towards 'God' God, and the Holy Spirit seems to obey both in sense. I hope I did a good job answering to ur weird post lol
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level One
Level One

The truth about end times Empty Re: The truth about end times

on May 8th 2020, 9:50 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:Quite sure jesus refers to himself as the word in the bible, which is something only God can say about himself. And judas killed himself. He did not die of crucifixion. And jesus kinda HAD to die in the cross for it to even have a meaning. He had to get tortured and what not. IDK where this is said, but the angels wanted to rescue jesus, and they would if he called for them, but he didnt. Plus, he does not need to be "God" to be "God in Christianity. All 3 of them (father, son, holy spirit) are God, but there is only one 'God' God, there is only one 'Jesus' God, and there is only one 'Holy Spirit' God, and they together form the 'Holy Trinity' God. I believe that there is some sort of hierarchy in said Trinity (Jesus shows reverence towards 'God' God, and the Holy Spirit seems to obey both in sense. I hope I did a good job answering to ur weird post lol

Jesus did not actually die on the cross, someone else died in his place and everyone at the time mistook that person for Jesus. Since when did Jesus refer to himself as the Word in the Christian Bible? Since when did being called the "Word" literally mean being God himself, given that the Christian Bible is full of metaphors? From what I remember, the Jesus of the Christian Bible differentiated himself from God almighty, even saying that the Father is the only God. I don't see see any Trinity in the Bible, in fact I'm sure that the Trinity is something that the Council of Nicea made up in the 4th century. If God is the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit, then that's clearly a form of polytheism.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

The truth about end times Empty Re: The truth about end times

on May 8th 2020, 2:59 pm
@Latham2000 wrote:
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:Quite sure jesus refers to himself as the word in the bible, which is something only God can say about himself. And judas killed himself. He did not die of crucifixion. And jesus kinda HAD to die in the cross for it to even have a meaning. He had to get tortured and what not. IDK where this is said, but the angels wanted to rescue jesus, and they would if he called for them, but he didnt. Plus, he does not need to be "God" to be "God in Christianity. All 3 of them (father, son, holy spirit) are God, but there is only one 'God' God, there is only one 'Jesus' God, and there is only one 'Holy Spirit' God, and they together form the 'Holy Trinity' God. I believe that there is some sort of hierarchy in said Trinity (Jesus shows reverence towards 'God' God, and the Holy Spirit seems to obey both in sense. I hope I did a good job answering to ur weird post lol

Jesus did not actually die on the cross, someone else died in his place and everyone at the time mistook that person for Jesus. Since when did Jesus refer to himself as the Word in the Christian Bible? Since when did being called the "Word" literally mean being God himself, given that the Christian Bible is full of metaphors? From what I remember, the Jesus of the Christian Bible differentiated himself from God almighty, even saying that the Father is the only God. I don't see see any Trinity in the Bible, in fact I'm sure that the Trinity is something that the Council of Nicea made up in the 4th century. If God is the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit, then that's clearly a form of polytheism.
I know its gonna sound retarded as fuck when i say this, but do u have any sources for that not being the real jesus? even after the robbers next to him recognized him? with his family and friends around him? 

I do not know where he reffered to himself as the word, but he did. Why does that make him God? Because God dictated what was being written in the Bible. Him being the word means that he represents God. Even if u dont want him to be God in this case, he is closer to it than anybody else aside from God and the Holy Spirit.

He did differentiate himself from God, but I already said that, which leads me to believe that u may not have taken ur time reading what i wrote.

It could very well have been made like that. Does not change the fact that technically speaking, all 3 are 'God', even if one is under the other. God is clearly the 'main piece', and Jesus is his son and representative, and is called both man AND God at the same time. The spirit executes their will in not so direct ways. He is supposed to be our consciousness in a sense. Our gut feelings maybe.

Yes, it is polytheism, but not the common kind, where in each God represents something, and are completely separate from each other. In this case, they all execute one will, they follow one 'leader', they abide by their own rules, they are actually supreme, and maybe a few more things im forgetting.

I would like to add one more thing, if u dont mind. If u have read the Bible, u will know that there in fact quite a few prophets, dream interpreters, and chosen men and women of God, correct? How/What do u think about this?
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level One
Level One

The truth about end times Empty Re: The truth about end times

on May 8th 2020, 5:22 pm
Do you have any source for it being the real Jesus? The Noble Qur'an says that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, but that it was made to appear so, you are appealing to authority by mentioning the fact that people believe that Jesus got crucified. Anyway, fair enough on the explanation for the themes in the Christian Bible, I just checked a series of passages and they appear to depict Jesus as God, but there's some underlying theme that he voluntarily subjected himself to human weakness and limitations, as much as I oppose the Christian Bible with ever fiber of my being, that's its view of Jesus, so I made an error with the what the Bible says about its view of Jesus. 

Your last questions are going off topic, sorry.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

The truth about end times Empty Re: The truth about end times

on May 9th 2020, 2:12 am
@Latham2000 wrote:Do you have any source for it being the real Jesus? The Noble Qur'an says that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, but that it was made to appear so, you are appealing to authority by mentioning the fact that people believe that Jesus got crucified. Anyway, fair enough on the explanation for the themes in the Christian Bible, I just checked a series of passages and they appear to depict Jesus as God, but there's some underlying theme that he voluntarily subjected himself to human weakness and limitations, as much as I oppose the Christian Bible with ever fiber of my being, that's its view of Jesus, so I made an error with the what the Bible says about its view of Jesus. 

Your last questions are going off topic, sorry.
I dont think anybody does, but u already know that. We both know that i can cite my book, and u can cite urs, but in the end, its a matter of belief.

Well, thanks, ur literally the first person to actually acknowledge something i said lmao. 

U sure? I think we could get an interesting convo out of that. I personally like discussing ideas and beliefs, and since u made this thread, u prolly do as well.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level One
Level One

The truth about end times Empty Re: The truth about end times

on May 9th 2020, 6:50 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:
@Latham2000 wrote:Do you have any source for it being the real Jesus? The Noble Qur'an says that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, but that it was made to appear so, you are appealing to authority by mentioning the fact that people believe that Jesus got crucified. Anyway, fair enough on the explanation for the themes in the Christian Bible, I just checked a series of passages and they appear to depict Jesus as God, but there's some underlying theme that he voluntarily subjected himself to human weakness and limitations, as much as I oppose the Christian Bible with ever fiber of my being, that's its view of Jesus, so I made an error with the what the Bible says about its view of Jesus. 

Your last questions are going off topic, sorry.
I dont think anybody does, but u already know that. We both know that i can cite my book, and u can cite urs, but in the end, its a matter of belief.

Well, thanks, ur literally the first person to actually acknowledge something i said lmao. 

U sure? I think we could get an interesting convo out of that. I personally like discussing ideas and beliefs, and since u made this thread, u prolly do as well.

No thanks, the thread will just get derailed.
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