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xmysticgohanx
xmysticgohanx

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 7th 2020, 3:36 am
Canon
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 7th 2020, 5:28 am
Anakin. Snoke is powerful, sure, but he's physically helpless. There's a reason he surrounds himself with the Praetorian Guards. Without them, he's extremely vulnerable to physical threats like the one Anakin presents. And I believe Anakin is strong enough in the Force to not be outright ragdolled by Snoke the way Rey was in TLJ.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 7th 2020, 11:15 pm
^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.
xmysticgohanx
xmysticgohanx

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 7th 2020, 11:57 pm
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.
Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 12:37 am
@xmysticgohanx wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.
Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls

I was saying how it'd be more likely than Snoke ragdolling Anakin not that it'd be likely to happen in the first place. 

Even then Luke in canon regarding sequel era content is an idiot. What does he know.
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 11:44 am
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@xmysticgohanx wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.
Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls

I was saying how it'd be more likely than Snoke ragdolling Anakin not that it'd be likely to happen in the first place. 

Even then Luke in canon regarding sequel era content is an idiot. What does he know.
You may not like the depiction of Sequel Luke, but your claim that he's an idiot is utterly unfounded. Poor portrayal or not, Canon Luke is hands down one of the most knowledgeable characters in all of Canon, having dug up a great deal of ancient and lost knowledge. The only other character I can see having as much knowledge is Yoda, due to being alive for literal centuries.

Luke's comparison of Snoke to RotJ Palpatine is still a dubious one, though. He claims Snoke's mastery of the Dark Side rivaled Palpatine's. But that doesn't necessarily mean Snoke's power was equivalent. Mastery and power aren't the same thing.
MyGod000
MyGod000

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 3:19 pm
If Snoke is as Powerful as people are saying then he has the Advantage in force powers. The highest I see Anakin pre-suit at his peak is Yoda and ROTS Sidious tier. 

Snoke is physically weak. However, when you are as powerful as ROTJ Sidious you don't really need to be physically strong.


Overall...I think Anakin takes this Regardless of the disparity in power...Ben wasn't even close to Anakin's level  and he managed to kill Snoke just by cutting him in half something that even maul was able to survive.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 3:20 pm
@MyGod000 wrote:If Snoke is as Powerful as people are saying then he has the Advantage in force powers. The highest I see Anakin pre-suit at his peak is Yoda and ROTS Sidious tier. 

Snoke is physically weak. However, when you are as powerful as ROTJ Sidious you don't really need to be physically strong.


Overall...I think Anakin takes this Regardless of the disparity in power...Ben wasn't even close to Anakin's level  and he managed to kill Snoke just by cutting him in half something that even maul was able to survive.

Agreed with this.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 3:34 pm
Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.
Anakin wins
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 6:10 pm
@Underachiever599 wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@xmysticgohanx wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.
Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls

I was saying how it'd be more likely than Snoke ragdolling Anakin not that it'd be likely to happen in the first place. 

Even then Luke in canon regarding sequel era content is an idiot. What does he know.
You may not like the depiction of Sequel Luke, but your claim that he's an idiot is utterly unfounded. Poor portrayal or not, Canon Luke is hands down one of the most knowledgeable characters in all of Canon, having dug up a great deal of ancient and lost knowledge. The only other character I can see having as much knowledge is Yoda, due to being alive for literal centuries.

Luke's comparison of Snoke to RotJ Palpatine is still a dubious one, though. He claims Snoke's mastery of the Dark Side rivaled Palpatine's. But that doesn't necessarily mean Snoke's power was equivalent. Mastery and power aren't the same thing.

Considering his actions in TLJ and how he said he'd never seen such great darkness despite meeting Vader and Sidous in person is silly. 

Also, wasn't that quote from before ROS and Sidious's revival came out? Unless Luke experienced Snoke's lightning or other showcases I'm not sure whether to believe that. ROTJ Sidious wouldn't have fallen for the saber twist.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 8th 2020, 6:11 pm
@SithSauce wrote:Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.
Anakin wins

Where is this said? So below Suited Vader but as powerful as ROTJ Sidious? 

More Vader > Sidious lunacy.
xmysticgohanx
xmysticgohanx

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 9th 2020, 3:31 am
Canon really loves the chosen one lmfao
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 9th 2020, 4:09 am
@xmysticgohanx wrote:Canon really loves the chosen one lmfao

Well milking Vader does make them a lot of money. I mean at this point they might as well make a live action Disney Plus series for him. That and a videogame.
Galan007
Galan007

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 9th 2020, 5:46 pm
@SithSauce wrote:Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.
What source are you referencing?
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 9th 2020, 9:41 pm
@Galan007 wrote:
@SithSauce wrote:Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.
What source are you referencing?
I think they're alluding to an old argument based around Kylo Ren. I don't recall all the specifics, but I remember seeing people argue that since Snoke intended for Kylo to kill Luke, and Snoke holds Kylo below or around Suited Vader, this would imply Snoke is below Vader. After all, we know Snoke himself can't kill Luke, as there are at least two sources which imply Snoke and Luke fought once and Snoke lost.
Galan007
Galan007

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 9th 2020, 10:29 pm
@Underachiever599 wrote:I think they're alluding to an old argument based around Kylo Ren. I don't recall all the specifics, but I remember seeing people argue that since Snoke intended for Kylo to kill Luke, and Snoke holds Kylo below or around Suited Vader, this would imply Snoke is below Vader. After all, we know Snoke himself can't kill Luke, as there are at least two sources which imply Snoke and Luke fought once and Snoke lost.
Hm.

Not sure if I'd subscribe to that, tbh.

In canon, Luke was already Vader's equal during RotJ:
"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."
-Jedi vs. Sith
(2016)

And Luke's power/skill should have grown considerably after the events of RotJ, given the amount of Force-related knowledge he collected and studied in the years afterward(including the massive caches of Jocatsu Nu, the High Republic, as well as the ancient texts), in addition to communing with the spirits of Anakin, Yoda, and Kenobi for a number of years.

Point being- even if Kylo had reached Vader's level, he would have still logically been stomped by ST-era Luke(just like Snoke was implied to have been.)

I'm also not entirely sure that Snoke ever really intended to send Kylo in alone to destroy Luke, given his line in TLJ:
"We will give [Luke] and the Jedi Order the death he desires. After the Rebels are gone, we will go to his planet and obliterate the entire island."

/shrug

My opinion:
ST-era Luke > Snoke ~ RotJ Palpatine > RotJ Vader = RotJ Luke > Kylo.
MyGod000
MyGod000

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 10th 2020, 1:15 am
@Galan007 wrote:
@Underachiever599 wrote:I think they're alluding to an old argument based around Kylo Ren. I don't recall all the specifics, but I remember seeing people argue that since Snoke intended for Kylo to kill Luke, and Snoke holds Kylo below or around Suited Vader, this would imply Snoke is below Vader. After all, we know Snoke himself can't kill Luke, as there are at least two sources which imply Snoke and Luke fought once and Snoke lost.
Hm.

Not sure if I'd subscribe to that, tbh.

In canon, Luke was already Vader's equal during RotJ:
"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."
-Jedi vs. Sith
(2016)

And Luke's power/skill should have grown considerably after the events of RotJ, given the amount of Force-related knowledge he collected and studied in the years afterward(including the massive caches of Jocatsu Nu, the High Republic, as well as the ancient texts), in addition to communing with the spirits of Anakin, Yoda, and Kenobi for a number of years.

Point being- even if Kylo had reached Vader's level, he would have still logically been stomped by ST-era Luke(just like Snoke was implied to have been.)

I'm also not entirely sure that Snoke ever really intended to send Kylo in alone to destroy Luke, given his line in TLJ:
"We will give [Luke] and the Jedi Order the death he desires. After the Rebels are gone, we will go to his planet and obliterate the entire island."

/shrug

My opinion:
ST-era Luke > Snoke ~ RotJ Palpatine > RotJ Vader = RotJ Luke > Kylo.


In the passage it does say VAder and Luke fought Evenly. However, Filoni stated also that Vader in that fight wasn't trying to kill Luke and that he was conflicted. 

 Snoke pretty much implies Vader and Luke are top tiers Saying that Kylo potential can be as great as either of them.  it pretty much implied the Last two sith>The last Two Jedi. 

Sidious&Vader>Yoda&Luke. 

The New novel implied that ROTJ Sidious was absolutely scared shittless of Vader and could do nothing about his Betrayal. it also stated that Sidious knew for 2 years that Vader was going to betray him and still he couldn't stop Vader so he decided to go into cloning himself and learned a new Sith power.

all that implies that Vader was dangerously close to Sidious power. Luke only in a Duel proved to fight evenly with Vader...to be honest the novel implied Luke was heavily relying on the Dark side to handle Vader as well.
Galan007
Galan007

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 10th 2020, 1:56 pm
@MyGod000 wrote:In the passage it does say VAder and Luke fought Evenly. However, Filoni stated also that Vader in that fight wasn't trying to kill Luke and that he was conflicted.

The New novel implied that ROTJ Sidious was absolutely scared shittless of Vader and could do nothing about his Betrayal. it also stated that Sidious knew for 2 years that Vader was going to betray him and still he couldn't stop Vader so he decided to go into cloning himself and learned a new Sith power.

all that implies that Vader was dangerously close to Sidious power. Luke only in a Duel proved to fight evenly with Vader...to be honest the novel implied Luke was heavily relying on the Dark side to handle Vader as well.
Yeah, the original novelization and even comic adaption confirm the same, but I'm not referring to those. I am referencing far more recent canon material which states that Luke's power and skill were equal to Vader's as of RotJ. They may not have been actively trying to kill each other at first(Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark, and Luke was trying to turn Vader to the light), but that doesn't change the fact that they were still intended to be equals -- with Luke obviously gaining the advantage when he briefly tapped into the dark side.

I wouldn't say that Palpatine was "scared shitless" of Vader. He didn't know when(or even if) Vader would betray him, but he knew it was a possibility based on the flickering light he began to sense in his apprentice, so he started making preparations to transfer his essence. Palpatine did not want to make the same mistake Plagueis had and be caught unprepared in his final moments(and thus perma-killed), so he made sure all the pieces were in place for the transference, just in case it came to that. Granted, Palpatine could have simply destroyed Vader on the spot when he began sensing the 'good' in him, but that would have left him without an apprentice for who knows how long... And given that Vader had always been extremely loyal beforehand(Palpatine himself even stated that Vader was the "perfect Sith"), his betrayal may not have been very likely in Palpatine's eyes, so killing him could have been counterproductive in the scheme of things. /shrug

I'm not saying there was a vast difference in power between Vader and Palpatine, but there was still definitely a difference, as Vader explicitly needed Luke's help to destroy Palpatine as of ESB.
MyGod000
MyGod000

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 10th 2020, 2:10 pm
@Galan007 wrote:
@MyGod000 wrote:In the passage it does say VAder and Luke fought Evenly. However, Filoni stated also that Vader in that fight wasn't trying to kill Luke and that he was conflicted.

The New novel implied that ROTJ Sidious was absolutely scared shittless of Vader and could do nothing about his Betrayal. it also stated that Sidious knew for 2 years that Vader was going to betray him and still he couldn't stop Vader so he decided to go into cloning himself and learned a new Sith power.

all that implies that Vader was dangerously close to Sidious power. Luke only in a Duel proved to fight evenly with Vader...to be honest the novel implied Luke was heavily relying on the Dark side to handle Vader as well.
Yeah, the original novelization and even comic adaption confirm the same, but I'm not referring to those. I am referencing far more recent canon material which states that Luke's power and skill were equal to Vader's as of RotJ. They may not have been actively trying to kill each other at first(the same source states that Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark, and Luke was trying to turn Vader to the light), but that doesn't change the fact that they were still intended to be equals -- with Luke obviously gaining the advantage when he briefly tapped into the dark side.

I wouldn't say that Palpatine was "scared shitless" of Vader. He didn't know when(or even if) Vader would betray him, but he knew it was a possibility based on the flickering light he began to sense in his apprentice, so he started making preparations to transfer his essence. Palpatine did not want to make the same mistake Plagueis had and be caught unprepared in his final moments(and thus perma-killed), so he made sure all the pieces were in place for the transference, just in case it came to that. Granted, Palpatine could have simply destroyed Vader on the spot when he began sensing the 'good' in him, but that would have left him without an apprentice for who knows how long... And given that Vader had always been extremely loyal beforehand(Palpatine himself even stated that Vader was the "perfect Sith"), his betrayal may not have been very likely in Palpatine's eyes, so killing him could have been counterproductive in the scheme of things. /shrug

I'm not saying there was a vast difference in power between Vader and Palpatine, but there was still definitely a difference between them, as Vader explicitly needed Luke's help to destroy Palpatine as of ESB.


my counter to that is that Dark side amp Luke was fighting evenly with Vader. 

Base Luke without using the dark side was not on Vader level at all, It back up by the fact that Vader told Luke only his hatred can defeat him and told him to use it.  Even at the end Palpatine acknowledges Luke's "Hatred" as made him very powerful...so clearly Luke was tapping into the dark side to combat Vader, and used it towards the end of the fight... he even had to pull himself out of the rage he had.
Vader=Dark side amp Luke>Base Luke.



As for the palpatine stuff he was scared shitless...to the point he went a sith Temple to learn a new force powers right before ROTJ to be ready for what ever happens. He wouldn't have went to such lengths to make sure that he survived against Vader if he wasn't scared shittless of the outcome of him losing.
Galan007
Galan007

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 10th 2020, 2:43 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
It's more like:
RotJ Luke(dark side amped) > RotJ Vader = RotJ Luke(standard)
...As canon indicates.

And no, Palpatine was not "scared shitless" of Vader, but I suppose you're welcome to that opinion.

That being said, there's really no reason for us to continue beyond this.  Snoke vs RotS Anakin 1289255181
Jedi_Jesus
Jedi_Jesus

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 10th 2020, 10:52 pm
Anakin, but hes injured at the end of the fight. 

I dont normally say such a thing in my comments( Like noting how injured one would be ) , but i believe that Anakin is JUST powerful enough to bully his way through whatever Offensive force onslaught snoke can throw at him, which should say alot about both canon Anakin and Vader. Outright being able to casually ragdoll rey/Kylo is a pretty demonstrably massive feat if their shielding holds up as much as its implied it would in canon. However, that being said, Anakin has the durability feats shown to muscle through such an assault, and Snoke has no ways to defend himself in an up close and personal confrontation.  

Im not sure if this post was intended just for people to say anakin spites, but he doesnt. Snoke can probably out muscle the likes of canon dooku in a force bout, and id ever grow as bold to say match the likes of Talzin as well.
MyGod000
MyGod000

Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

on May 11th 2020, 2:57 am
@Galan007 wrote:It's more like:
RotJ Luke(dark side amped) > RotJ Vader = RotJ Luke(standard)
...As canon indicates.

And no, Palpatine was not "scared shitless" of Vader, but I suppose you're welcome to that opinion.

That being said, there's really no reason for us to continue beyond this.  Snoke vs RotS Anakin 1289255181


Well...I respectfully disagree.

But yeah, I won't go beyond this, Great debate those friend and nice hearing your input on the matter.
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Snoke vs RotS Anakin Empty Re: Snoke vs RotS Anakin

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