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freethedevil
freethedevil

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Wed 6 May - 11:09




...you mean he kicked Maul. By contrast, Maul hit Ahsoka, disarmed her, kicked her again later on, and disarmed her of both blades in quick succession of each other. This is false.
Disarming someone does not "do damage to them", again, red herring. Ahsoka landed more hits than maul and easily landed the most dangerous one when she catapulted maul a dozen feet. The only comparable tag to grievous one maul managed was when they were fighting on beams. The throne room is a far longer stretch of time and maul is unable to do anything to ahsoka comparable to what grevious did. Grevious only needed a couple seconds. A weaker ahsoka briefly driving GG back, staggering him and avoiding a fight ending blow over a sustained stretch of time is perfectly in line with a more powerful ahsoka going toe to toe with maul in rots.

Then there's her beating barriss in season 2, someone who was able to push a ventress-stomping anakin in season 5. Or her driving offee back in season 5 before offee set off an explosion right next to her.

Claiming "ahsoka has never done anything like this in canon" is silly, she has, you just disregarded it. Your head canon versions of maul and ahsoka don't actually line-up with the real thing. 



The fight starts, and she's immediately on the defensive. The two then exchange blows for around 30-50 seconds before he manoeuvres through her defences and disarms her, before driving her back until she gets a hit in due to his overconfidence, allowing her to retrieve her lightsaber. The fact that he was able to disarm her so quickly is a clear showing of a gap in skill, whereby he was able to get through her defences and outright knock the blade from her hand. Her retrieving it doesn't change that.

The fight also has ahsoka landing more hits, and putting maul on the defensive for stretches. It also has her catapulting maul a dozen feet of a window. Again crying "maul is way more skilled" doesn't change that as far as overall martial combat goes, they were potrayed as near equals. Hence whatever you want to attribute maul disarming ahsoka to, the actual thing that matters here, (outcomes) had ahsoka landing more hits as well as the best hit of the fight. Given she was able to do this with maul disarming her, maul disarming her really doesn't matter. The only, and I mean only thing maul has going here is that ahsoka was tired.
it happened
Yes it happened. Alas, defending a single strike from mace means literally nothing for his character.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Wed 6 May - 17:59
Was going to say everything BoD did.
freethedevil
freethedevil

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Wed 6 May - 18:02
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Was going to say everything BoD did.
Does that include trying to pass off maul parrying a strike from mace as a feat?
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Wed 6 May - 20:48
@freethedevil wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Was going to say everything BoD did.
Does that include trying to pass off maul parrying a strike from mace as a feat?

Well considering his fight with Aayla and Mace likely lasted way more than one strike, yes. 

SOD Maul has the feats to challenge canan Mace. Ahsoka doesn't.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

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on Wed 6 May - 21:51
@freethedevil wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Was going to say everything BoD did.
Does that include trying to pass off maul parrying a strike from mace as a feat?
While having Aayla Secura on his back? It is absolutely a feat.
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
Level Three
Level Three

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Wed 6 May - 21:56
When I get more time on my hands I would actually like to debate @King Joker on this very topic.
Despite the fact I would get my ass handed to me, I think it would be fun to debate my hero on his favorite Character  S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 228124001
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Wed 6 May - 22:10
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@freethedevil wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Was going to say everything BoD did.
Does that include trying to pass off maul parrying a strike from mace as a feat?

Well considering his fight with Aayla and Mace likely lasted way more than one strike, yes. 

SOD Maul has the feats to challenge canan Mace. Ahsoka doesn't.
Beating Maul arguably puts her on Mace's level, at least if we assume Maul is on it S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 1668617588
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 2:01
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Beating Maul arguably puts her on Mace's level, at least if we assume Maul is on it S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 1668617588

Mace contending with Sidious on screen is far beyond anything Ahsoka's done.
xmysticgohanx
xmysticgohanx

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 2:42
Ahsoka shits on him
freethedevil
freethedevil

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 2:50
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@freethedevil wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Was going to say everything BoD did.
Does that include trying to pass off maul parrying a strike from mace as a feat?

Well considering his fight with Aayla and Mace likely lasted way more than one strike, yes. 

SOD Maul has the feats to challenge canan Mace. Ahsoka doesn't.
1. "Way more"? Please be specific

2. What feats? The only feats I'm aware of are being clowned by kenobi and getting lmao-stomped by sids.
freethedevil
freethedevil

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 2:56
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Beating Maul arguably puts her on Mace's level, at least if we assume Maul is on it S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 1668617588

Mace contending with Sidious on screen is far beyond anything Ahsoka's done.
Which might matter if 

A. Maul was tied to mace in any way
B. We had Evidence Ahsoka couldn't defend a strike from Mace as of rots

But as you've failed to provide evidence for either, we can dismiss your use of this 'feat' as head canon.
King Joker
King Joker
Level One
Level One

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 11:47
The G Canon Purist wrote:When I get more time on my hands I would actually like to debate @King Joker on this very topic.
Despite the fact I would get my ass handed to me, I think it would be fun to debate my hero on his favorite Character  S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 228124001

I may take you up on that. S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 3344068304
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 13:55
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Beating Maul arguably puts her on Mace's level, at least if we assume Maul is on it S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 1668617588

Mace contending with Sidious on screen is far beyond anything Ahsoka's done.
So beating Maul doesn't put her on Mace's level, despite you believing Maul is?
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 15:50
@freethedevil wrote:1. "Way more"? Please be specific

2. What feats? The only feats I'm aware of are being clowned by kenobi and getting lmao-stomped by sids.

I was referring to their fight likely lasting longer than the single panel that was shown. The fight between the three was likely at the very least 20 seconds. 

Maul only got trashed by Kenobi when he had access to the second saber and when the narrow hallway and Savage limited Maul from fighting him one on one. Kenobi also never won that fight because he got TK'd by Maul and had the ceiling not collapsed the fight would've continued. 

As for Sidious, while he was clearly toying with the two at the very end he did legitimately have to try even if it wasn't his full capacity. If it was I don't think Maul would've been able to land a kick on him.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 15:53
@Nute_Chethray wrote:So beating Maul doesn't put her on Mace's level, despite you believing Maul is?

Well if Ahsoka straight up won against a Maul who was going all out then sure, she could be. 

However Maul who not only has been put far above Ahsoka by Filoni disarmed Ahsoka several times and she was visibly tired even after the first engagement. Maul also wasn't trying to kill her as he wanted her to join him and it wasn't until the very end where he overextended ONCE and got flipped over Connor style. 

Had Maul been going all out it's fairly obvious that he would've dismantled Ahsoka.
freethedevil
freethedevil

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 16:11
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@Nute_Chethray wrote:So beating Maul doesn't put her on Mace's level, despite you believing Maul is?

Well if Ahsoka straight up won against a Maul who was going all out then sure, she could be. 
Filoni explicitly states Ahsoka "can compete at this level". You need to prove maul>>ahsoka, ahsoka being as impressive as the actual gains of the fight suggests she was doesn't contradict anything. Furthermore Filoni notes that maul's "overconfidence" is a consistent thing which will always be at risk in fights with him. If anything that would indicate Maul's 'overconfidence' should be held against him when dealing with duelists who can compete with him, like ahsoka.

Maul disarmed her
 
And nothing came of it until they were fighting in a special environment where Ahsoka didn't have a chance to retrieve her lightsaber. You're happy to make every excuse in the book for maul, but you can never be bothered to admit when things go his way. It's getting tiresome.  S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 1220391476

Maul only got trashed by Kenobi when he had access to the second saber and when the narrow hallway and Savage limited Maul from fighting him one on one.
Kenobi was easily the most acrobatic of the fighters there and both brothers took opposite sides of him. Shadow conspiracy is an earlier, non-canon script for TCW episodes. When there is a contradiction with the final script, you dismiss it. Especially if we're talking disney canon. 


We're talking in the context of a 1 v1, not a 2 v 1. Kenobi's preferred approach is soresu, him needing to make use of ataru for the 2 v1 is not an advantage. You'll note that Kenobi opted for soresu until he tried to save Galia. Then he realizes Galia was in danger, Disorientates Maul for several seconds, and continues that form in the cave where the three instances of Kenobi focusing on maul resulted in maul
-> Jumping the fuck back to not get diced up. 
-> Getting his head banged against the wall
-> Getting launched backwards with a kick to the chest. 
 
You can also just refer to their first fight where kenobi, having gotten the shit kicked out of him earlier has Maul dead to rights in 40 seconds, but opts to save ventress instead of finishing the job. 


Kenobi is a defensive fighter who maul can't seem to handle the slightest shred of offense from unless he's charging like a lunatic. How are they peers?
TK

Yes, in the context of a 2v1, when Kenobi was spinning between brothers. You realize that has no application in a 1 v1 fight?
very end he did legitimately have to try even if it wasn't his full capacity.
Starwars,com explicitly notes Sidious toyed with Maul, after Oppress's death. That includes Maul kicking Sidious. Like seriously, Sidious takes maul out, then once he kills him, he toys with and beats a enraged maul in 20 seconds. There's nothing there.


the three fought for 20 seconds

Uh, wasn't aayla taken out at the start? And what are you basing this 20 second estimate off from? Why is this even impressive?
King Joker
King Joker
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Level One

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 16:38
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:However Maul who not only has been put far above Ahsoka by Filoni

"Far above"? Filoni only stated that Maul was the "stronger" duelist without denoting to what degree. Why are you making things up?

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:disarmed Ahsoka several times

More like three times, with the first one being immaterial.

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:and she was visibly tired even after the first engagement.

And Maul was kicked through a window. I think Ahsoka was in a position of relative superiority there.

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Maul also wasn't trying to kill her as he wanted her to join him

Did you forget that Ahsoka's express mission was to capture Maul and bring him back to the Jedi Temple for questioning? I'd say that's a more important asterisk than Maul's "it'd be cool if Ahsoka joined me" holding him back.

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:and it wasn't until the very end where he overextended ONCE and got flipped over Connor style.

It wasn't really the first time Maul made combative errors if you count all the times Ahsoka kicked, punched, and grappled him (that would be about six times, btw).

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Had Maul been going all out it's fairly obvious that he would've dismantled Ahsoka.

It's actually not fairly obvious given how well-contested the fight was.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Thu 7 May - 19:38
@King Joker wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:However Maul who not only has been put far above Ahsoka by Filoni

"Far above"? Filoni only stated that Maul was the "stronger" duelist without denoting to what degree. Why are you making things up?

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:disarmed Ahsoka several times

More like three times, with the first one being immaterial.

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:and she was visibly tired even after the first engagement.

And Maul was kicked through a window. I think Ahsoka was in a position of relative superiority there.

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Maul also wasn't trying to kill her as he wanted her to join him

Did you forget that Ahsoka's express mission was to capture Maul and bring him back to the Jedi Temple for questioning? I'd say that's a more important asterisk than Maul's "it'd be cool if Ahsoka joined me" holding him back.

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:and it wasn't until the very end where he overextended ONCE and got flipped over Connor style.

It wasn't really the first time Maul made combative errors if you count all the times Ahsoka kicked, punched, and grappled him (that would be about six times, btw).

@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Had Maul been going all out it's fairly obvious that he would've dismantled Ahsoka.

It's actually not fairly obvious given how well-contested the fight was.

Well it's not like Maul being called stronger points to him being slightly better. 



Several means more than two. Several can mean three. 



During a bladelock where she redirected his weight. Not through anything like TK.



That's true but it's not like Ahsoka's formula at full capacity would be suited for fighting Maul. If they both fought all out Ahsoka would be better off evading and defending rather than trying to meet him head on. 



Those instances were because Maul was holding back rather than him and at the very least are cancelled out by Ahsoka getting disarmed. It's the same how Maul landed a kick on Sidious but that was likely due to Sidious not going all out. 



Well given Maul's previous showings in SOD and my above take on the fight I don't see Ahsoka holding up.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

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on Thu 7 May - 19:59
@freethedevil wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@Nute_Chethray wrote:So beating Maul doesn't put her on Mace's level, despite you believing Maul is?

Well if Ahsoka straight up won against a Maul who was going all out then sure, she could be. 
Filoni explicitly states Ahsoka "can compete at this level". You need to prove maul>>ahsoka, ahsoka being as impressive as the actual gains of the fight suggests she was doesn't contradict anything. Furthermore Filoni notes that maul's "overconfidence" is a consistent thing which will always be at risk in fights with him. If anything that would indicate Maul's 'overconfidence' should be held against him when dealing with duelists who can compete with him, like ahsoka.

Maul disarmed her
 
And nothing came of it until they were fighting in a special environment where Ahsoka didn't have a chance to retrieve her lightsaber. You're happy to make every excuse in the book for maul, but you can never be bothered to admit when things go his way. It's getting tiresome.  S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 1220391476

Maul only got trashed by Kenobi when he had access to the second saber and when the narrow hallway and Savage limited Maul from fighting him one on one.
Kenobi was easily the most acrobatic of the fighters there and both brothers took opposite sides of him. Shadow conspiracy is an earlier, non-canon script for TCW episodes. When there is a contradiction with the final script, you dismiss it. Especially if we're talking disney canon. 


We're talking in the context of a 1 v1, not a 2 v 1. Kenobi's preferred approach is soresu, him needing to make use of ataru for the 2 v1 is not an advantage. You'll note that Kenobi opted for soresu until he tried to save Galia. Then he realizes Galia was in danger, Disorientates Maul for several seconds, and continues that form in the cave where the three instances of Kenobi focusing on maul resulted in maul
-> Jumping the fuck back to not get diced up. 
-> Getting his head banged against the wall
-> Getting launched backwards with a kick to the chest. 
 
You can also just refer to their first fight where kenobi, having gotten the shit kicked out of him earlier has Maul dead to rights in 40 seconds, but opts to save ventress instead of finishing the job. 


Kenobi is a defensive fighter who maul can't seem to handle the slightest shred of offense from unless he's charging like a lunatic. How are they peers?
TK

Yes, in the context of a 2v1, when Kenobi was spinning between brothers. You realize that has no application in a 1 v1 fight?
very end he did legitimately have to try even if it wasn't his full capacity.
Starwars,com explicitly notes Sidious toyed with Maul, after Oppress's death. That includes Maul kicking Sidious. Like seriously, Sidious takes maul out, then once he kills him, he toys with and beats a enraged maul in 20 seconds. There's nothing there.


the three fought for 20 seconds

Uh, wasn't aayla taken out at the start? And what are you basing this 20 second estimate off from? Why is this even impressive?


Ok before I start cutting out the rest of my sentences to limit context doesn't help your point. 



Being able to compete at Maul's level doesn't mean you're on it. If we're going to debate on Maul VS Ahsoka as a whole that's something I'll do with Joker although someone else has said he wants to do that. 



How does the environment take away from him disarming her? That's like when Ventress disarmed Anakin on Yavin. Ok sure Anakin after that went into supa mode but that doesn't take away from Ventress pulling it off. 



Well even if that book isn't within canon those explanations do make sense. Kenobi clearly needed the second saber and had the fight been in a field it wouldn't have gone as well. 



I never said Kenobi couldn't regularly compete with Maul only that he didn't start trashing him and Savage until he went inside and had the second saber. 



What about TK not mattering in a 1v1? 



I'm not sure what your point is. I agree Sidious was toying with them until the end where he had to try at least somewhat after Maul got pissed off Savage died. I think in either this or another Thread I said that while Sidious had to try at the end he wasn't going all out because having Maul land a kick on full capacity Sidious wouldn't make sense. 



Again, cutting out the rest of the sentence won't help you lol I said that it probably lasted that long since the fight switches between Maul and Dooku's separate fights until the rocket breaks them up.
MyGod000
MyGod000

S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor  - Page 2 Empty Re: S7 Tano vs The Grand Inquisitor

on Fri 8 May - 13:31
Welp...it was pretty much stated that TCW S7 Maul>TCW S7 Ahsoka.

She only won because Maul is very Arrogant, but he is the superior Fighter. 

On topic:

Ahsoka beats the Grand inquisitor in a good fight. the reason why I say this GI isn't no slouch, he was able to defeat Jocasta in a duel from just taking in the Dark side.

He then gets Training from Vader. 

That should be enough to say it is at least a close fight...but I give it to Ahsoka because of her experience on the battle field, and having a good record against force users who had more experience than her. 

Bonus round I say could go either way but Maul is the strongest.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

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on Fri 8 May - 16:13
Saying that Maul > Ahsoka in an overall fight is wrong imo. While Fiolini confirmed that he was more skilled, he also confirmed that she won because of his permanent trait of arrogance. He's always arrogant, thats just how he is. If his person causes him to always make mistakes then that should be considered in every battle unless stated otherwise.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

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on Fri 8 May - 16:35
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Saying that Maul > Ahsoka in an overall fight is wrong imo. While Fiolini confirmed that he was more skilled, he also confirmed that she won because of his permanent trait of arrogance. He's always arrogant, thats just how he is. If his person causes him to always make mistakes then that should be considered in every battle unless stated otherwise.

While his arrogance and dumbassery may never change the environmental factors and situational context will. 

That still doesn't make me believe that the fight would go the same say if they fought again going all out this time.
DarthDuelist9
DarthDuelist9

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on Fri 8 May - 19:55
Ahsoka probably takes it although the Grand Inquisitor is no slouch, it is a good fight in my opinion.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

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on Fri 8 May - 20:15
@Nute_Chethray wrote:Saying that Maul > Ahsoka in an overall fight is wrong imo. While Fiolini confirmed that he was more skilled, he also confirmed that she won because of his permanent trait of arrogance. He's always arrogant, thats just how he is. If his person causes him to always make mistakes then that should be considered in every battle unless stated otherwise.
Arrogance and CIS in general shouldn't even be considered on battle forums, and every single duel where Maul's arrogance got the better of him was due to the plot. Heck, Maul's persistent arrogance isn't even organic, it's not a natural progression of his character, it's actually really contrived and forced.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

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on Fri 8 May - 20:48
@Latham2000 wrote:Arrogance and CIS in general shouldn't even be considered on battle forums, and every single duel where Maul's arrogance got the better of him was due to the plot. Heck, Maul's persistent arrogance isn't even organic, it's not a natural progression of his character, it's actually really contrived and forced.

Maul's character since his revival as a whole hasn't been handled that well lol Realistically he wouldn't obsess over Kenobi and would've wanted to replace Dooku. They made him this pretentious idiot who had goals of taking the galaxy over within a week.
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