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Ziggy
Ziggy

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 16:10
ROTJ Vader vs B team 4037459623
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 16:15
Kolar solo-stomps:

Kolar >> Vos >> Aayla = Aurra > Jinn + Kenobi >> Kenobi > Vader.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 16:17
ROTJ Vader vs B team 3344068304 ROTJ Vader vs B team 3344068304 ROTJ Vader vs B team 3344068304
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Two
Level Two

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 17:08
@NotAA3 wrote:Kolar solo-stomps:

Kolar >>> Vos >/~ Aayla>K’kruhk/Tol Skorr>Aurra>Jinn>/~TPM Kenobi>/~Xanatos>> Kenobi>Vader.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 17:27
terrible bait
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 22:07
Jokes aside the team has a very good chance of pulling it off if they just swarm him.
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Mon 20 Apr - 23:24
Kolar and Tiin just don't impress me enough for me to consider B-Team winning. The only actual challenge here for Vader would be Kit Fisto, and even that's more of just a road bump.
Ziggy
Ziggy

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 14:49
@Underachiever599 wrote:Kolar and Tiin just don't impress me enough for me to consider B-Team winning. The only actual challenge here for Vader would be Kit Fisto, and even that's more of just a road bump.


ESB Luke provided a reasonable challenge to the Half man/machine by all accounts. Including G-canon. And of course, Qui Gon is certainly a better warrior than Vader. These guys are at least around his level and there is three of them.
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
Level Three
Level Three

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 14:59
Look man, people are holding Caedus with Luke now due to Juke scaling. Elm is making a comeback, Bane and Maul are held in high regard and you like to be original. So be original my white supremacist friend, go off and live your life lowballing caedus, Vader being held with TPM Kenobi is the forum's consensus, you should be better than to agree with the rest of us infidels. After all, you are Ziggy are you not?
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 16:34
yeah no luke being a challenge to vader on esb have been debunked with other lfl licensing sources into hand fact files,art treasures and so on
SithSauce
SithSauce
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Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 16:59
Even John Knoll suggested Vader wasn't giving it his all in ESB against Luke.


Last edited by SithSauce on Tue 21 Apr - 17:15; edited 1 time in total
BoD
BoD
Level Six
Level Six

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:06
@SithSauce Sauce?
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:09
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Luke didn’t challenge Vader... except for all the sources that explicitly say he did.
SithSauce
SithSauce
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Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:13
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
@BOD
"In Empire, it’s Luke who’s a kid who’s never really done this before, has just sort of started his training, fighting against Vader who is not really going at him particularly hard".
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
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Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:36
even the insiders says vader was toying with luke
IG
IG
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Level Four

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:40
Assuming Legends, B-Team have this. I doubt Vader can take 3 opponents of their caliber simultaneously. He's definitely taking any one of them, most likely two of them. But all three attacking from separate angles is going to be devastating imo. It's not necessarily a bad thing, beating three opponents of these guys' calibre at the same time is pretty hard.
BoD
BoD
Level Six
Level Six

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:42
Only a handful of beings from the PT/OT can take these three with their teamwork, skill and precision at once in sabers. Vader isn't one of them. He'll probably get some good hits in but they're too skilled and agile. Now if he uses the Force, that's another story.
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
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Level Three

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 17:56
I don't think Vader can beat the team but this esb luke nonsense has awakened me from my slumber. Please dear memepants provide me your best argument for why Vader can't shitstomp Luke
Ziggy
Ziggy

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 18:15
@The lord of hunger wrote:even the insiders says vader was toying with luke

I think there are more sources claiming it was challenge for Vader than not.  

Don't have those sources to hand though.  Not a rhetorically challenged librarian like @zenwolf, you see. 

I believe that G claimed ESB was only "a somewhat one-sided" fight.  Emphasis on the somewhat. Which settles it.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
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Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 19:48
@Ziggy wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:even the insiders says vader was toying with luke

I think there are more sources claiming it was challenge for Vader than not.  

Don't have those sources to hand though.  Not a rhetorically challenged librarian like @zenwolf, you see. 

I believe that G claimed ESB was only "a somewhat one-sided" fight.  Emphasis on the somewhat. Which settles it.
from what i remember there is only two sources of that 

vader have like 20 depicting his superiority to luke 

the lucas quote clearly means that was a one sided battle for vader
Ziggy
Ziggy

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 21:08
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Ziggy wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:even the insiders says vader was toying with luke

I think there are more sources claiming it was challenge for Vader than not.  

Don't have those sources to hand though.  Not a rhetorically challenged librarian like @zenwolf, you see. 

I believe that G claimed ESB was only "a somewhat one-sided" fight.  Emphasis on the somewhat. Which settles it.
from what i remember there is only two sources of that 

vader have like 20 depicting his superiority to luke 

His superiority to Luke is evident to anyone watching, but even a statement claiming such wouldn't preclude a "challenge" for Vader.  

the lucas quote clearly means that was a one sided battle for vader

But that's not what he said.  To the letter; a "somewhat" one-sided fight. 

There's a crucial difference.  A one sided fight implies a stomp that the underdog couldn't even compete in.  A "some-what" one sided fight is enough of a distinction to validate a smaller gap then previously believed by many (those with Vader's cock in their mouths), not me of course.  I believed all along, that if Vader is pressed by a Luke so untrained and surpassed with another two years under the boy's belt, how great could he be really, considering Master Jedi are trained as munchkins, considering that Luke's own father, who's natural force connection was stronger than anyone's ever, was still below Dooku with a decade of Jedi training behind him.  Indeed, the body of evidence supporting us "lowballers" is far stronger than against the grain.
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
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Level Three

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 21:14
Or... Luke is a prodigy
Ziggy
Ziggy

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 21:21
He is indeed.  But a far greater one than the unblemished and unbroken Anakin Skywalker, which is what he'd really have to be to justify some of the wanking?  I don't know.  

Again G think's greatly of Luke's potential, but he's still just a lowly trained boy compared to those depicted in the prime of the Jedi.


Last edited by Ziggy on Wed 22 Apr - 9:48; edited 2 times in total
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 21:56
it precludes since other evidence states vader as a superior 

the film depicts luke literally shitting his pants against the dark lord, you could also always argue that luke was a prodigy and he started to became more powerful within a small gap of years after esb


Last edited by The lord of hunger on Tue 21 Apr - 22:50; edited 1 time in total
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

ROTJ Vader vs B team Empty Re: ROTJ Vader vs B team

on Tue 21 Apr - 22:13
@Ziggy wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Ziggy wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:even the insiders says vader was toying with luke

I think there are more sources claiming it was challenge for Vader than not.  

Don't have those sources to hand though.  Not a rhetorically challenged librarian like @zenwolf, you see. 

I believe that G claimed ESB was only "a somewhat one-sided" fight.  Emphasis on the somewhat. Which settles it.
from what i remember there is only two sources of that 

vader have like 20 depicting his superiority to luke 

His superiority to Luke is evident to anyone watching, but even a statement claiming such wouldn't preclude a "challenge" for Vader.  

the lucas quote clearly means that was a one sided battle for vader

But that's not what he said.  To the letter; a "somewhat" one-sided fight. 

There's a crucial difference.  A one sided fight implies a stomp that the underdog couldn't even compete in.  A "some-what" one sided fight is enough of a distinction to validate a smaller gap then previously believed by many (those with Vader's cock in their mouths), not me of course.  I believed all along, that if Vader is pressed by a Luke so untrained and surpassed with another two years under the boy's belt, how great could he be really, considering Master Jedi are trained as munchkins, considering that Luke's own father, who's natural force connection was stronger than anyone's ever, was still below Dooku with a decade of Jedi training behind him.  Indeed, the body of evidence supporting us "lowballers" is far stronger than against the grain.
@Ziggy Dude why bother making this thread if you genuinely believe that Vader is below Qui Gon Jinn who is on the same tier as each individual B-Team member?  Should it not be obvious who the victor is to you? Or you made this thread just to be a troll?

The Empire Strikes Backs fight can't be used to suggest Luke has parity with Vader when Vader isn't even trying his hardest for the majority of the fight.  Luke confronts Vader with the mindset that Vader killed his father. While Vader fights Luke with the intention of not killing him but turn him to the darkside. Therefore he is clearly holding back. This is backed up by John Knoll's statement which suggests Vader wasn't trying hard against Luke.
"In Empire, it’s Luke who’s a kid who’s never really done this before, has just sort of started his training, fighting against Vader who is not really going at him particularly hard".
John Knoll is reliable as he was the visual effects supervisor for The Prequel Trilogy and the special editions for the Original Trilogy. So he has worked extremely close with George Lucas. 
And if you really think ESB Luke is close to Vader then how do you explain these clips?
https://youtu.be/rgyitSlMtMY?t=87
https://youtu.be/rgyitSlMtMY?t=237
In the first clip he disarms Luke casually and in the second clip he is using the force to throw objects at Luke without the move of his finger, firmly indicating that he isn't even trying. He doesn't need to. He is just that more powerful than Luke. Now as for the final portion of their fight. Luke was clearly fighting with aggression and tagged Vader on the shoulder. But this is more of a feat for Luke than it is a bad one for Vader. As ISV said, Luke is a prodigy, he is the son of the chosen one after all. It makes sense that he isn't giving up and trying his all to defeat the man who he was led to believe killed his father. 
Furthermore, how much training a character has quite frankly doesn't matter much and isn't the end all be all of things. Remember, Savage Opress had less training than Luke in the force and he was already throwing down with Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress and Anakin and Obi Wan. Darth Bane as of Path of Destruction had significantly less training at the Academy and ended up surpassing every member of the brotherhood of darkness including Kas'im who had decades worth of lightsaber training to his belt. Its quite plausible that a Jedi who is the son of The Chosen whom George Lucas himself claimed he could become the very thing Anakin failed to become is capable of contending with Darth Vader after three years of training from Yoda and Ben. What matters is your connection to the force more than how good you are with a blade. This is said by Yoda himself.  "Not this Crude matter". This illustrates how good you are with a blade or how physically strong you are doesn't matter as much if you have the force as your ally. And this is why Luke became a great jedi without years of physical lightsaber training. His connection to the force is what makes him a powerful jedi not his ability in lightsaber combat.
https://youtu.be/EJz2FXkZb7g?t=129

What I find rather ironic in amongst of all this, is that you mentioned before that the c-canon sources that suggested Dooku was toying with Anakin in AOTC don't mean anything as the film itself doesn't reflect this. Though ESB perfectly showcases a holding back Vader taunting Luke and completely wrecking him by throwing objects at him yet you seem to take all these false statements about Luke being "near equal" to ESB Vader into consideration despite that the film blatantly doesn't reflect this at all.
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