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Seturna
Seturna

Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 3:59 pm
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Meatpants
Meatpants
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 4:43 pm
Tenebrous atomises Kyp before he knows what's going on.
IG
IG
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 6:28 pm
Kyp casually obliterates
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 7:37 pm
Kyp easily
Bart
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 7:58 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Kyp easily.

Tenebrous has basically nearly only Banite scaling to him in general Force power, and Kyp has his scaling to Luke and Luke's enemies in general Force power, with Luke scaling off of Banites as well. Kyp wins.
Dolph
Dolph
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 8:07 pm
@Bart: How does Kyp scale off Luke?
Bart
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 8:12 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@EmperorCaedus: The famous dovin basal manipulation.
Dolph
Dolph
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 17th 2020, 8:15 pm
@Bart: Can you elaborate on how that scales him off Luke?
Scial
Scial

Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 25th 2020, 12:19 pm
Frankly.. anything involving Tenebrous is near-impossible to judge accurately. There simply isn't enough known about his combat capabilities. Basically nothing is known about his martial arts training, other than his choice of weaponry and his training of Plagueis and Venamis. And as for his Force abilities, other than some artwork depicting his usage of lightning, the power of which is completely unknown, all we really know is his non-combative experimentation which Plagueis would later pick up. Scaling or not, there simply isn't enough known about his capabilities to effectively analyse his combat effectiveness, sadly.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 25th 2020, 12:32 pm
@Scial It's safe to say he's better than Darth Bane and all of his predecessors from that lineage, in both Force power and mastery as well as dueling ability.

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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 25th 2020, 12:39 pm
kyp
Scial
Scial

Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 25th 2020, 12:43 pm
Azronger wrote:@Scial It's safe to say he's better than Darth Bane and all of his predecessors from that lineage, in both Force power and mastery as well as dueling ability.
Well.. I wouldn't quite say that. Granted, each successive Dark Lord of the era would have been a more complete and formidable package than the last, but there is no guarantee that they outclassed their predecessors in every field. For example, I would personally rate Bane as a superior lightsaber duelist to Plagueis.
As seen with the cases of Plagueis and Sidious, by the end of the Banite line, mastery was clearly no longer claimed in a straight one-on-one duel, but rather through any means available, treachery and opportunism included. So while each Lord was better positioned than the last to bring about the grand plan, they weren't necessarily the direct superiors in terms of combat effectiveness. And besides, simple scaling isn't really enough to accurately judge a contest; how the individuals skillsets match up to each other's is just as important. And in terms of raw potential or power, I think it's safe to say that Tenebrous and Durron would not be a mismatch. So it's really difficult to say much more without Tenebrous having any combat showings to speak of.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 25th 2020, 1:50 pm
Plagueis said he was the first to have killed his Master with guile rather than in combat, so therefore Tenebrous would have slain his mentor by the way of the blade, and he his own, and so on, all the way down to Bane. It's also confirmed that each successive generation became more powerful in the Force than the last, and that the Banites honed their combat skills over the centuries, making the late Banites superior duelists to the early ones, especially Tenebrous who was a noted enthusiast. His knowledge of the Force also made that of his immediate predecessors (people who could cause cosmic rends in the Force and mess with time) look like ass by comparison, so it's safe to say he is better than those who came before him in the ways of dealing death on the battlefield.

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Scial
Scial

Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 25th 2020, 4:13 pm
Azronger wrote:Plagueis said he was the first to have killed his Master with guile rather than in combat, so therefore Tenebrous would have slain his mentor by the way of the blade, and he his own, and so on, all the way down to Bane. It's also confirmed that each successive generation became more powerful in the Force than the last, and that the Banites honed their combat skills over the centuries, making the late Banites superior duelists to the early ones, especially Tenebrous who was a noted enthusiast. His knowledge of the Force also made that of his immediate predecessors (people who could cause cosmic rends in the Force and mess with time) look like ass by comparison, so it's safe to say he is better than those who came before him in the ways of dealing death on the battlefield.
Hm, didn't recall him being the first, interesting. But even if that is the case, there is still nothing known about him beyond that "he's probably better than this other person", which doesn't really help in the context of a versus matchup. In the context of the Banite Sith, all this really says is "a guy we know next to nothing about is probably better than some other guys we know even less about".. My overall point being that Tenebrous is simply incredibly impractical to use in versus matchups, as he has never been shown in any combat situation of any kind, there is simply nothing to extrapolate a skillset or approach from.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 26th 2020, 8:24 am
I don't think you're quite understanding the implications of Banite scaling. Tenebrous defeated his Master, who defeated his Master, and so on all the way down to Bane. Bane is literally at the bottom of almost 30 people who all successively have defeated each other, are explicitly confirmed to have become consecutively more powerful, and to have increased in skill over the centuries. You're seriously limiting your imagination by fixating on Tenebrous's lack of on-screen fights when there are a dozen data points from which we can infer his strength and skill level with a fair degree of accuracy. Would you say something like Tenebrous vs. Kas'im cannot be determined, even though we know for a fact that a pre-prime Bane was winning against Kas'im by virtue of his superior connection to the Force, and that Tenebrous is even more powerful than peak Bane, most likely by a vast amount? And is a noted lightsaber enthusiast with superior skills to early members of the lineage? And boasts a more advanced understanding of the Force than possibly all his predecessors? And has had around 150 years to actualize all that into a single, cohesive package, with at least one confirmed high-profile lightsaber kill under his belt, and training provided for Plagueis and Venamis that allowed them to perform to the degree that they did during their respective skirmish? Is all that still too vague for you?

Note that I'm not saying Tenebrous would beat Durron, nor am I trying to disparage you; I'm simply bemused with all this talk of Tenebrous being featless or unquantifiable or unusable in versus matches that I have often heard over the years when there has been plenty of information available for years now to prove those notions false.

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xolthol
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 26th 2020, 4:11 pm
Kyp because of all the hype around his power in the Force, based on the Dovin Basal feat and his hype to share some parity with Luke which is more powerful than Tenebrous at this time (at the very least as a duelist)
Scial
Scial

Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 26th 2020, 5:23 pm
Azronger wrote:I don't think you're quite understanding the implications of Banite scaling. Tenebrous defeated his Master, who defeated his Master, and so on all the way down to Bane. Bane is literally at the bottom of almost 30 people who all successively have defeated each other, are explicitly confirmed to have become consecutively more powerful, and to have increased in skill over the centuries. You're seriously limiting your imagination by fixating on Tenebrous's lack of on-screen fights when there are a dozen data points from which we can infer his strength and skill level with a fair degree of accuracy. Would you say something like Tenebrous vs. Kas'im cannot be determined, even though we know for a fact that a pre-prime Bane was winning against Kas'im by virtue of his superior connection to the Force, and that Tenebrous is even more powerful than peak Bane, most likely by a vast amount? And is a noted lightsaber enthusiast with superior skills to early members of the lineage? And boasts a more advanced understanding of the Force than possibly all his predecessors? And has had around 150 years to actualize all that into a single, cohesive package, with at least one confirmed high-profile lightsaber kill under his belt, and training provided for Plagueis and Venamis that allowed them to perform to the degree that they did during their respective skirmish? Is all that still too vague for you?

Note that I'm not saying Tenebrous would beat Durron, nor am I trying to disparage you; I'm simply bemused with all this talk of Tenebrous being featless or unquantifiable or unusable in versus matches that I have often heard over the years when there has been plenty of information available for years now to prove those notions false.
I do get the scaling; and it does reflect extremely well on almost each and every Sith Lord of the line. That being said, due to their devotion to concealment, most of these Sith would not have been expecting to have to cross blades with a Jedi during their lifetimes. So the only high-profile opponent that they would be expecting to face would be their own masters, with the full knowledge that they would have no choice but to either kill them or die. Therefore, it's likely a safe assumption that most of these Sith would have tailored their skillsets and approaches specifically to combat their own masters in preparation for that inevitable confrontation, since they would have had an intimate knowledge and understanding of their masters' own capabilities. So while, yes. each successive Lord would have more knowledge to work with than the last, and overall develop into a greater force to be reckoned with, I don't believe that the scaling should be taken quite at face value; as each would have been developing differently and specifically leveraging their power down the appropriate path of least resistance to bring down their respective masters. I'm not trying to argue away the scaling; the Rule of Two was quite clearly a success, that is undeniable. Simply that that alone really isn't enough to go off for an analysis of the line's capabilities.
Master Azronger
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on April 27th 2020, 12:44 am
Bane held back against Zannah in their sparring matches, and so she was unprepared for his ferocity and new fighting style when their final confrontation came. That's just one example, sure, but I don't think that the Master literally provided their student with a blueprint and precise instructions on how to defeat them since that would mitigate the point of the Rule of Two, the purpose of which was to see if the apprentice was worthy of wresting the mantle of Dark Lord by proving themselves stronger.

I also don't get what you mean when you say that you admit each successive Sith became a greater force to be reckoned with, but then say there isn't enough material to analyze their capabilities. Seems like a self-contradiction to me.

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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

on May 1st 2020, 11:02 am
Azronger wrote:Bane held back against Zannah in their sparring matches, and so she was unprepared for his ferocity and new fighting style when their final confrontation came. That's just one example, sure, but I don't think that the Master literally provided their student with a blueprint and precise instructions on how to defeat them since that would mitigate the point of the Rule of Two, the purpose of which was to see if the apprentice was worthy of wresting the mantle of Dark Lord by proving themselves stronger.

I also don't get what you mean when you say that you admit each successive Sith became a greater force to be reckoned with, but then say there isn't enough material to analyze their capabilities. Seems like a self-contradiction to me.
Obviously they would not simply provide a step-by-step "how to kill me" guide. But you spend the majority of your life with someone, you are going to know more or less what they are capable of one way or another. Bane may have caught Zannah off-guard with his unrestrained brutal power blows, but she still knew to expect a highly physical, strength-based fighting style, as well as what to expect from his use of the Force. It's not like he was going to catch her off-guard by suddenly revealing a hidden mastery of sorcery and start blasting her with raw elemental wrath, or feign mastery of a martial art other than his own specialty to catch her off-guard. Point being that as a student of the Rule of Two, you would literally be spending your entire life plotting and working up to killing the one specific individual who served as your master. I'm not trying to criticise or debunk the Rule of Two, simply stating that it likely resulted in some highly specialised skillsets.

And.. I meant exactly that. Simply saying that "X is better than Y, and Y is better than Z, must mean X is better than Z" is just lazy and doesn't take into account the individuals specific strengths and weaknesses.
And that is my point. That we know absolutely nothing about Tenebrous' skillset and tactics, about his strengths and weaknesses. So how can we possibly analyse his potential performance against another specific individual when we have no way of judging how effective that individual's capabilities and approaches would be when used against him in the specific setting of a 1-on-1 confrontation?
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Kyp durron vs Tenebrous Empty Re: Kyp durron vs Tenebrous

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