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Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader

on June 24th 2020, 9:03 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Nihilus is sub Vader. There is no case you can make. My friend DarthZanos also sent me messages and gave me sources that shits on Nihilus.

Enlighten me then.

Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1076326320
HellfireUnit
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on June 24th 2020, 9:14 am
@Darth Nihilus wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:Nihilus is sub Vader. There is no case you can make. My friend DarthZanos also sent me messages and gave me sources that shits on Nihilus.

Enlighten me then.

Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1076326320

don't know, ask him
BreakofDawn
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on June 24th 2020, 9:32 am
Circumstantial TK feats aside, I remain unconvinced that Nihilus wasn't massively amped. Vader still wins. He's more skilled/proficient with a lightsaber by a laughable margin and has better TK feats and showings.
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

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on June 24th 2020, 9:57 am
BoD wrote:Circumstantial TK feats aside, I remain unconvinced that Nihilus wasn't massively amped. Vader still wins. He's more skilled/proficient with a lightsaber by a laughable margin and has better TK feats and showings.

@BoD

Regarding Nihilus's TK feat, I suggest you check out the blog I wrote on that. Nihilus does have superior TK feats to Vader and is more powerful in Force power. On top of all that, I don't see Vader being able to resist Nihilus's drain either.

I am aware that Anakin was able to resist the Dark Reaper. However, his resistance was for a short period of time and he had to stay a certain distance from the Reaper or else he would die. From this, we can see that the closer he got to the Reaper, the more dangerous and impactful it became.

Back to the fight, Nihilus is the superior Force user and so Vader's main advantage over Nihilus is that he is the superior duelist. Considering that the Reaper became more and more dangerous the closer you got to it, this means that Vader's main advantage will also end up in a disadvantage because his advantage is lightsaber combat and he would need to get closer to Nihilus to utilize this advantage. So in a sense,Vader's main advantage will also end up being a disadvantage. Nihilus was able to drain planets whilst the Dark Reaper was only able to drain moons (as I am aware of) and so Nihilus's drain is even more dangerous than the Reaper.

Also Vader's  'Drain Resistance' is not something he just passively has. He has to actively use it. Ulic's technique is the only known way to effectively resist 'Force Drain' and it only works for a short period of time and by keeping a distance. The Reaper's drain works very similary to Nihilus's Drain and considering that Ulic's technique is only effective against the Reaper from a distance, this would directly relate to Nihilus as well. This isn't about Nihilus being the Reaper or not, this is about the technique only being effective against 'Force Drain' from a distance. Whether the Reaper is Nihilus or not is completely irrelevant. Actually, not only is Nihilus's Force Drain more potent than the Reaper, but it even works from a much further distance as evident by Nihilus utilizing it to consume planets from Orbit. So distance to Nihilus is definitely not a problem. So I don't think Vader will  be able to close the distance to Nihilus before getting Drained. On top of all this, Nihilus has one of the most powerful TK in all of Star Wars which he can also utilize in this fight.

So here we have a case of Vader being an inferior to Nihilus in the Force and Ulic's technique only being effective against Force Drain from a distance, which would not be a problem to Nihilus who has a more potent Force Drain and can use it from a greater distance. So even if somehow Vader was able to get closer to Nihilus before getting Drained, Ulic's technique would no longer be effective at such close distance and Nihilus can also utilize his powerful TK in either case. 

Taking into account Nihilus being the superior Force user and Vader's main advantage backfiring at him, I see Nihilus as the victor here.

This is my thought on this. If you disagree with anything or if I said something incorrect just let me know and we can discuss it. Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 228124001
BreakofDawn
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on June 24th 2020, 10:14 am
Regarding Nihilus's TK feat, I suggest you check out the blog I wrote on that.

I read it. I remain unconvinced.




Nihilus does have superior TK feats to Vader and is more powerful in Force power.

Going to need you to provide evidence, I'm afraid.



I am aware that Anakin was able to resist the Dark Reaper. However, his resistance was for a short period of time and he had to stay a certain distance from the Reaper or else he would die. From this, we can see that the closer he got to the Reaper, the more dangerous and impactful it became.

Going to need a source for him dying if he got too close. Different playthroughs show different players getting within varying distances of the Reaper.



Back to the fight, Nihilus is the superior Force user 

Again, please provide sources.



Considering that the Reaper became more and more dangerous the closer you got to it, this means that Vader's main advantage will also end up in a disadvantage because his advantage is lightsaber combat and he would need to get closer to Nihilus to utilize this advantage. So in a sense,Vader's main advantage will also end up being a disadvantage.

Considering how ridiculously far above Nihilus Vader is in terms of swordsmanship, all he needs to do is get close for a few seconds. I'm certain that Vader's drain resistance, coupled with his experiments in the Dark Side and other dabbling over the decades, can at least provide that. 



Nihilus was able to drain planets whilst the Dark Reaper was only able to drain moons (as I am aware of) and so Nihilus's drain is even more dangerous than the Reaper.

This is purely speculative and something I'd rather not get into.



On top of all this, Nihilus has one of the most powerful TK in all of Star Wars which he can also utilize in this fight.

If this is based on the Malachor feat without taking into account the context, I agree. Without it, I see no reason why Nihilus > Vader.
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 12:25 pm
dont see any reason why vader doesnt oneshoot still
HellfireUnit
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on June 24th 2020, 12:43 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:dont see any reason why vader doesnt oneshoot still

why would he oneshot in the first place?
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 12:48 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:dont see any reason why vader doesnt oneshoot still

why would he oneshot in the first place?
 overall better lightsaber skills and force abilities besides the op doesnt specify if its knightfall or suited


Last edited by The lord of hunger on June 24th 2020, 3:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
Seturna
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on June 24th 2020, 12:48 pm
Vader stomps via overall better saber skills, imo.
Darth Nihilus
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on June 24th 2020, 1:27 pm
EDIT: I am not sure if you read the newest version of the blog or the older one. It might have been the older one.

@BoD

I read it. I remain unconvinced.

What's making you unconvinced still though?

You are essentially claiming that the nexus was so unbelievably powerful that it allowed Nihilus to perform his TK feat. In that case, Meetra would have been unbelievably hindered and Kreia would have been unbelievably amped by the nexus that was supposedly so powerful that it allowed the TK feat. And I said that if that was the case, then it just goes to show how extremely powerful a severely weakened and Telos starved Nihilus must have been to dominate an unhindered Meetra (by this extremely poweful nexus) and her strike team. And in that case, I find it entirely plausible for a prime Nihilus to have an extremely potent TK as his TK feat, especially when we know that he became vastly more powerful later on compared to his TK feat time.

And I honestly think that claiming the nexus to be as powerful as you are claiming is entirely unjustifiable and quite absurd. Why? Because I don’t think that if the nexus was so unbelievably powerful as you are thinking it is would have allowed Meetra to win against Kreia with such extremely unfavorable odds. Imagine how hindered Meetra and how amped Kreia would be if this nexus was so absurdly strong to allow Nihilus to perform his enormous TK feat. I find it extremely implausible for Meetra to win in such conditions with this type of nexus. On top of all that, Meetra had to fight through many Sith Assassins and had to defeat Sion three times before getting to Kreia. Throughout all this, Meetra would have been significantly hindered by this nexus you are claiming, and all the others would have been significantly amped. And all this was inside the Trayus academy itself where the nexus would be most potent. As such, I think it’s really absurd to claim that the nexus was as powerful as you think, especially when you don’t also have evidence that Nihilus was so absurdly amped.

So, whether you believe the nexus to be unbelievably powerful or not, it all leads down and goes to show how extremely powerful Nihilus is and further justifies his TK potency. And to further show this, the Telos starved and severely weakened Nihilus is able to TK Meetra and her strike team across the whole bridge of the Ravager.

When Nihilus takes half-damage, he roars, blasting the player and any companions back across the bridge with an effect similar to the Force Wave power. Nihilus lets the player fall, yet Visas still rotates. There is silence - Nihilus has suddenly realized that Visas has changed. Visas still lies suspended in the air. Nihilus turns to face the player, who should be getting to his feet. Nihilus roars, hurling Visas across the room. Close-up on Nihilus, his voice roaring as power emanates from him.

―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords (Cut Content)

I have covered pretty much every angle in the blog regarding the TK feat and on here.

Going to need a source for him dying if he got too close. Different playthroughs show different players getting within varying distances of the Reaper



I was alluding to minute 9:30. Anakin says that anyone that comes near the Reaper is killed instantly but looking over at this again, he could be alluding to the others and not himself. Throughout all the gameplays though, you always see players going around the Reaper in circles and never going under it or very close to it. So, I am not currently sure if you would die if you went too close/under it. I don’t have the game and can’t try this out so I will let this point slide for now.

Again, please provide sources

His extremely powerful TK is enough to show that he is the superior Force user here. But to add on even further, the following shows how powerful Nihilus’s Force lightning is whilst rag dolling Sion (begins at around 1:30):



It’s also further elaborated on:

"Nihilus does not move, camera shows him from the front, half side, as Sion walks away behind him. Nihilus turns, dark wave energy exploding from him, blasting Sion back, as supports smash down around him. It would be awesome if Sith soldiers are hurled about by Nihilus' power, or are disintegrated as he attacks Sion. Sion stalks off, disgusted."

―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords (Cut Content)

Nihilus directs the attack at Sion and it’s side effects collapsed some supports of the Ravager, hurled away Sith soldiers and even disintegrated some.

Considering how ridiculously far above Nihilus Vader is in terms of swordsmanship, all he needs to do is get close for a few seconds.” I'm certain that Vader's drain resistance, coupled with his experiments in the Dark Side and other dabbling over the decades, can at least provide that. 

Vader’s superiority in swordsmanship is not going to give him the win against Nihilus when Nihilus is vastly the superior force user.

This is purely speculative and something I'd rather not get into

There is nothing speculative here. Nihilus is able to drain planets and this is confirmed by many sources. This makes his drain more powerful than the Reaper. There really isn’t an argument here.


Last edited by Darth Nihilus on June 24th 2020, 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 3:30 pm
i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 4000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still


Last edited by The lord of hunger on June 24th 2020, 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Seturna
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on June 24th 2020, 3:33 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
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on June 24th 2020, 3:35 pm
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
why the trolling on a thread that isnt talking about that? Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
Darth Nihilus
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on June 24th 2020, 3:42 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still

Claiming New Republic have better scaling because SWTOR era is '3000 years' down the line is honestly one of the worst arguments I have seen on this website. Hopefully you are trolling or I misunderstood you.

I have yet to see a legitimate argument from you.
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on June 24th 2020, 3:43 pm
nah i just give my argument nihilus just sucks plain period Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1019854026


Last edited by The lord of hunger on June 24th 2020, 4:02 pm; edited 4 times in total
Seturna
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on June 24th 2020, 3:44 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
why the trolling on a thread that isnt talking about that? Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
Because Nihlius isn’t sub Kenobi  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1935072468
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on June 24th 2020, 3:45 pm
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
why the trolling on a thread that isnt talking about that? Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
Because Nihlius isn’t sub Kenobi  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1935072468
according to chris avellone if we go pt supremacy logic yes Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 3344068304


Last edited by The lord of hunger on June 24th 2020, 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Seturna
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on June 24th 2020, 3:46 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
why the trolling on a thread that isnt talking about that? Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
Because Nihlius isn’t sub Kenobi  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1935072468
according to chris avellone if we go pt supremacy yes  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 3344068304
When did he say Nihilus is sub Kenobi?
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 3:47 pm
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
why the trolling on a thread that isnt talking about that? Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
Because Nihlius isn’t sub Kenobi  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1935072468
according to chris avellone if we go pt supremacy yes  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 3344068304
When did he say Nihilus is sub Kenobi?
well considering you hold suited vader to be sub tpm kenobi and the fact he said vader beats nihilus but both gets trounced by revan it gives you a idea about what chris said
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on June 24th 2020, 3:49 pm
Good. Nihilius wins.
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 3:51 pm
@Seturna wrote:Good. Nihilius wins.
by your logic no silly
Darth Nihilus
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on June 24th 2020, 4:10 pm
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:
@Seturna wrote:
@The lord of hunger wrote:i choose the man who have better scaling over the one who is nearly 3000 years deep down over swtor era ones everyday still
Choose the guy that’s sub TPM Kenobi, imo.
why the trolling on a thread that isnt talking about that? Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
Because Nihlius isn’t sub Kenobi  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1935072468
according to chris avellone if we go pt supremacy yes  Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 3344068304
When did he say Nihilus is sub Kenobi?
well considering you hold suited vader to be sub tpm kenobi and the fact he said vader beats nihilus but both gets trounced by revan it gives you a idea about what chris said

Except that's not an argument and is not an in source material. Going solely based on what someone has said without backing it up is not an argument. I mean we literally have an author claiming Exar Kun is more powerful than and would beat Sidous.. Chris does not even answer these questions from a versus perspective. I mean in his answer alone  he says that 'if Vader were to go back in the past' and ' If Nihilus were to face him in the present'. How would a versus battle differ whether in the past or present?

Chris has even mentioned in previous answers "I hate to avoid direct/value metric comparisons between Force-users powers, but it's how I write stories, so I tend to follow that pattern myself"
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 4:11 pm
chris is the writer of kotor 2 so he can do whatever he wants with his statements in case of tom vietch about the exar kun can beat sidious is contradicted by lore this one in the other hand is not since a fan legitimately ask him to get a answer to that question
Seturna
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on June 24th 2020, 4:15 pm
This is also contradicted by the lore Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
The lord of hunger
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on June 24th 2020, 4:16 pm
@Seturna wrote:This is also contradicted by the lore Darth Nihilus vs Darth Vader - Page 2 39523600
no mention of it or anything like it really
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