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The Witness
The Witness

Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 1:22 pm
Who is the best and worst vs maker in your opinion?
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 2:04 pm
Bandele has the best opinions, Evan is just the best dude overall. Jensaarai is the worst in every category you can think of.
The Witness
The Witness

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on May 23rd 2019, 2:13 pm
SithArchaeologist wrote:Bandele has the best opinions, Evan is just the best dude overall. Jensaarai is the worst in every category you can think of.

I think Jensaarai is pretty good. My issue is that he reuses the same characters a lot in his vs videos.
ILS
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on May 23rd 2019, 2:53 pm
None of them deal in the realm of facts or evidence. Out of the four it's clear Bandele made the greatest attempts to do so, meanwhile the other three unapologetically based all of their conclusions on their subjective interpretations/conjecture/intuitions rather than anything even closely resembling hard evidence.

Places like here, you make claim X, you have something to prove it. On youtube they are several steps removed from something as basic as that. Often they will state X without verifying or supporting the idea, then from there, X leads to Y conclusion, except they won't explain why.

It's not just the fact they are terrible at referencing evidence, it's that they don't even begin to attempt to explain why the particular methodology they use (insofar as they can be described as having one, which isn't very) is the one we ought to pay heed to.

In other words... as Bertrand Russell said:

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
The Dragon Of The West
The Dragon Of The West
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Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 3:24 pm
Helllllllllllllooooooo yoooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttttttttttttttttttttttuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubbbbbbbbbbbe.

This is Jensaaraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Yoda is honestly a terrible Lightsaber duellist. He simply lacks the technical skill required and puts all of his eggs in one basket (his Ataru). When he tried to defeat Darth Sidious he went into an Ataru Frenzy and lost the fight because of it. If he had been more nuanced he maybe could have defeated the Dark Lord of the Sith.
The Dragon Of The West
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Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 3:33 pm
Jensaarai also thinks that Starkiller can't TK random DS adepts. So yeah his opinion has no value.
The Witness
The Witness

Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 3:37 pm
The Cosmic Force wrote:Helllllllllllllooooooo yoooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttttttttttttttttttttttuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuubbbbbbbbbbbe.

This is Jensaaraiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Yoda is honestly a terrible Lightsaber duellist. He simply lacks the technical skill required and puts all of his eggs in one basket (his Ataru). When he tried to defeat Darth Sidious he went into an Ataru Frenzy and lost the fight because of it. If he had been more nuanced he maybe could have defeated the Dark Lord of the Sith.

What I don't get is, he uses Yoda's choreography from the films to judge his duelling skills. By that logic ROTS Sidious, Mace Windu, ANH Vader, Ben Kenobi, ROTJ Luke are shitty duelists too based of choreography.
MasterCilghal
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on May 23rd 2019, 3:47 pm
I often disagree with their opinions, especially in regards to Jeensarai and Antoine, but their videos are certainly well made and deserve credit for that. They’re good people.
Haggis
Haggis

Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 3:52 pm
Zannah is fire. Tholme is smoke!
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
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Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 3:53 pm
@ILS wrote:None of them deal in the realm of facts or evidence. Out of the four it's clear Bandele made the greatest attempts to do so, meanwhile the other three unapologetically based all of their conclusions on their subjective interpretations/conjecture/intuitions rather than anything even closely resembling hard evidence.

Places like here, you make claim X, you have something to prove it. On youtube they are several steps removed from something as basic as that. Often they will state X without verifying or supporting the idea, then from there, X leads to Y conclusion, except they won't explain why.

It's not just the fact they are terrible at referencing evidence, it's that they don't even begin to attempt to explain why the particular methodology they use (insofar as they can be described as having one, which isn't very) is the one we ought to pay heed to.

In other words... as Bertrand Russell said:

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Azronger
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Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 4:23 pm
Antoine and GreyJedi are the best.
Meatpants
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Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 23rd 2019, 4:26 pm
Antoine is pretty bad if we take away the facade. At least GreyJedi owned Reti onscreen over his Hoth > Bane bullshit.
Trayvon
Trayvon

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on May 23rd 2019, 6:41 pm
Jensaarai is based and redpilled on the Kun question, and shits on Sheev, he’s unironically the best. Also putting SK below Dooku is god-like, love the man.
Blade_of_Dorin
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on May 23rd 2019, 10:05 pm
Antoine said Bane > Vader so he isn't the best
MasterCilghal
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on May 24th 2019, 12:50 am
The main problem with them, as far as I am concerned, are the people who follow them on YouTube. They tend to take their opinions and whatever they say in their videos as the truth, despite the fact that they themselves have never said to do so.
LSDMB
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on May 24th 2019, 9:34 am
Jensaarai1 simultaneously believes Zannah beats Vader and Yoda... but gets raped by Tholme kek.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91 Empty Re: Evannova95 vs Jensaarai1 vs Antoine Bandele vs Greyjedi91

on May 24th 2019, 11:29 am
Antoine is probably the most consistently entertaining of the bunch. I like his other non-Star Wars videos. I think the biggest issue as Swords pointed out is that a lot of their analysis is based on headcanon and not concrete facts. Granted a lot of us, including me from time to time are guilty of the same thing, but the difference is that on a message board you have people to call you out for it whereas with a YouTube video you only have yourself. That's when you get to such nonsense as "Yoda was a slave to form" or "Sidious is a third rate lightsaber duelist".
Isv
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on May 24th 2019, 1:01 pm
My views align most with the newer and more revised Evannova. The man seems to look at facts now, and sources most of his claims. While I freely concede he has been flat out bias in the past, he has recanted and altered those decisions updating his opinions, which is honestly something I can respect, meanwhile Antione clearly does not understand the differences of combatants outside of the movieverse, he wields the movies as the absolute authority over a character and how they can do, the best and most shining example of this is when he claims that only Vader's Shoulder pauldrons are lightsaber resistant. This is incorrect, but when Jensaarai provided evidence for the claim "roan shryne cutting through Vader's hand but being blocked" Antione responded with a shiningly unsophisticated "Oh I guess we will just forget about this scene then." He then puts on a clip of Luke cutting off vader's hand... that is pure unrefined stupidity. He has admitted that Luke was amped in that final section of the fight, ironically he neglects to mention that fact in the video, treating the circumstances as equal, but in Evannova's rebuttal he addresses both of these terrible points politely and elegantly, by posting a scan from Rebellion and in it we have proof Vader's helmet resists lightsaber strikes as well, he also mentions the level of amplification luke was running on, and went into the whole dark rage argument. While I appreciate them both, specifically Antione's style, Evannova as of late has been a much more balanced and well researched fellow.

Matt is cool too, but he debates in an outdated way.
The Witness
The Witness

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on May 24th 2019, 3:36 pm
@LSDMB wrote:Jensaarai1 simultaneously believes Zannah beats Vader and Yoda... but gets raped by Tholme kek.

I can see Zannah beating Vader due her massive sorcery advantage which can fuck up an unstable/conflicted character like Vader. But Jensaarai thinking Tholme can beat Zannah is ridiculous. Like Tholme is barely an Unduli level council master. He has no business being up there with Zannah, Vader and Yoda lol.
Isv
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on May 24th 2019, 5:50 pm
Sam wrote:
@LSDMB wrote:Jensaarai1 simultaneously believes Zannah beats Vader and Yoda... but gets raped by Tholme kek.

I can see Zannah beating Vader due her massive sorcery advantage which can fuck up an unstable/conflicted character like Vader. But Jensaarai thinking Tholme can beat Zannah is ridiculous. Like Tholme is barely an Unduli level council master. He has no business being up there with Zannah, Vader and Yoda lol.

I'm sorry, but What the F*ck? The only way to beat zannah's spells is through willpower, that is literally Vader's bread and butter, if you don't know what I'm talking about he willed himself to life 2 times, once on mustafar and once during DVLC comics... Vader curbstomps Zannah if all she has over him is spells.
MasterCilghal
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on May 25th 2019, 11:19 am
In-sidiousvader wrote:My views align most with the newer and more revised Evannova. The man seems to look at facts now, and sources most of his claims. While I freely concede he has been flat out bias in the past, he has recanted and altered those decisions updating his opinions, which is honestly something I can respect, meanwhile Antione clearly does not understand the differences of combatants outside of the movieverse, he wields the movies as the absolute authority over a character and how they can do, the best and most shining example of this is when he claims that only Vader's Shoulder pauldrons are lightsaber resistant. This is incorrect, but when Jensaarai provided evidence for the claim "roan shryne cutting through Vader's hand but being blocked" Antione responded with a shiningly unsophisticated "Oh I guess we will just forget about this scene then." He then puts on a clip of Luke cutting off vader's hand... that is pure unrefined stupidity. He has admitted that Luke was amped in that final section of the fight, ironically he neglects to mention that fact in the video, treating the circumstances as equal, but in Evannova's rebuttal he addresses both of these terrible points politely and elegantly, by posting a scan from Rebellion and in it we have proof Vader's helmet resists lightsaber strikes as well, he also mentions the level of amplification luke was running on, and went into the whole dark rage argument. While I appreciate them both, specifically Antione's style, Evannova as of late has been a much more balanced and well researched fellow.

Matt is cool too, but he debates in an outdated way.
I completely agree. Evannova is a lot better now. The way he analyzes characters is way better than it was once.
DarthSkywalker0
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on May 25th 2019, 11:45 am
Keeping in mind that all of the Forcecast deal in the currency of mediocrity, here are my thoughts:

Bandele has the best opinions.
Nova is unmemorable and copies Jensaarai's writing and format.
Greyjedi is the best writer.
Jensaarai deals in the most abstractions, but generally makes decently entertaining videos.
Azronger
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on May 25th 2019, 3:13 pm
@DarthSkywalker0 wrote:Keeping in mind that all of the Forcecast deal in the currency of mediocrity, here are my thoughts:

Bandele has the best opinions.
Nova is unmemorable and copies Jensaarai's writing and format.
Greyjedi is the best writer.
Jensaarai deals in the most abstractions, but generally makes decently entertaining videos.

Agreed, although Evan is improving. He actually shows scans on-screen and has started using power scaling recently.
The Witness
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on June 23rd 2019, 3:00 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:My views align most with the newer and more revised Evannova. The man seems to look at facts now, and sources most of his claims. While I freely concede he has been flat out bias in the past, he has recanted and altered those decisions updating his opinions, which is honestly something I can respect, meanwhile Antione clearly does not understand the differences of combatants outside of the movieverse, he wields the movies as the absolute authority over a character and how they can do, the best and most shining example of this is when he claims that only Vader's Shoulder pauldrons are lightsaber resistant. This is incorrect, but when Jensaarai provided evidence for the claim "roan shryne cutting through Vader's hand but being blocked" Antione responded with a shiningly unsophisticated "Oh I guess we will just forget about this scene then." He then puts on a clip of Luke cutting off vader's hand... that is pure unrefined stupidity. He has admitted that Luke was amped in that final section of the fight, ironically he neglects to mention that fact in the video, treating the circumstances as equal, but in Evannova's rebuttal he addresses both of these terrible points politely and elegantly, by posting a scan from Rebellion and in it we have proof Vader's helmet resists lightsaber strikes as well, he also mentions the level of amplification luke was running on, and went into the whole dark rage argument. While I appreciate them both, specifically Antione's style, Evannova as of late has been a much more balanced and well researched fellow.

Matt is cool too, but he debates in an outdated way.
Matt debates in an outdated way? Did u see how he destroyed Reti4 in their Hoth vs Bane debate?
MasterCilghal
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on June 23rd 2019, 3:43 pm
Sam wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:My views align most with the newer and more revised Evannova. The man seems to look at facts now, and sources most of his claims. While I freely concede he has been flat out bias in the past, he has recanted and altered those decisions updating his opinions, which is honestly something I can respect, meanwhile Antione clearly does not understand the differences of combatants outside of the movieverse, he wields the movies as the absolute authority over a character and how they can do, the best and most shining example of this is when he claims that only Vader's Shoulder pauldrons are lightsaber resistant. This is incorrect, but when Jensaarai provided evidence for the claim "roan shryne cutting through Vader's hand but being blocked" Antione responded with a shiningly unsophisticated "Oh I guess we will just forget about this scene then." He then puts on a clip of Luke cutting off vader's hand... that is pure unrefined stupidity. He has admitted that Luke was amped in that final section of the fight, ironically he neglects to mention that fact in the video, treating the circumstances as equal, but in Evannova's rebuttal he addresses both of these terrible points politely and elegantly, by posting a scan from Rebellion and in it we have proof Vader's helmet resists lightsaber strikes as well, he also mentions the level of amplification luke was running on, and went into the whole dark rage argument. While I appreciate them both, specifically Antione's style, Evannova as of late has been a much more balanced and well researched fellow.

Matt is cool too, but he debates in an outdated way.
Matt debates in an outdated way? Did u see how he destroyed Reti4 in their Hoth vs Bane debate?
Well destroying Reti isn’t difficult. His opinions are by far the most head canon based out of all the forcecast debaters. Even he’s admitted it.
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