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HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Two
Level Two

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 10:23 am
Standart Rules

> Zannah after Bane's demise
> Base Jerec during 5 ABY

Sabers
Force
All out

Who wins?
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 10:24 am
after bane's demise, as in, right after, or at her prime?
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Two
Level Two

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 10:28 am
Right after
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 10:45 am
then jerec. idk about dueling skill, but she aint doing shit to him with her sorcery- he would either know how to counter it, stop it before she applies it, or do it himself to her. he seems to be overall more powerful, and possibly smarter, with a big likelihood on having better and more force powers
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 10:54 am
Zannah should be more powerful. I'm about 95% certain the rivalling Vader accolade is exaggerated for dramatic effect. Even if it weren't, Zannah has her boost from killing Bane and lots of sorcery she can use to gain an edge.

Zannah wins.
Corvinus
Corvinus

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 6:17 pm
@BoD It is. Jerec is objectively Sedriss's inferior, who is objectively Vader's inferior. By contrast, the game's strategy guide opens with this statement:

Jerec versus Darth Zannah 5717757-noaccurate
Gaunter O'Dimm
Gaunter O'Dimm

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 7:44 pm
@Corvinus wrote:@BoD It is. Jerec is objectively Sedriss's inferior, who is objectively Vader's inferior. By contrast, the game's strategy guide opens with this statement:

Jerec versus Darth Zannah 5717757-noaccurate

Based on what?

The New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Jerec outranked the Dark Side Adepts such as Hethrir, Sedriss, and Kadann...
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 7:55 pm
Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base.

Probably this.
Gaunter O'Dimm
Gaunter O'Dimm

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 8:05 pm
@BoD wrote:
Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base.

Probably this.
The quote starts with a word "perhaps", so...
Also, for all we know the word "disciple" might refer to those trained personaly by Palps, which Jerec was not.
And it's not like we have an outright statement regarding Jerec outranking Sedriss.
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 8:05 pm
I'm not arguing it, just posting the quote.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 8:12 pm
hmm interesting. so maybe jerec > sedriss after all. makes sense that he is closer to vader in power than, since sedriss is considered fodder to him.
TenebrousWay
TenebrousWay

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 10th 2020, 8:13 pm
Zannah
Corvinus
Corvinus

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 11th 2020, 2:49 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Gaunter O'Dimm

A couple of things to start with. Firstly, regardless of whether Jerec is inferior to Sedriss (he is) it doesn't stop the quote from being true. The publisher admits they exaggerate  the powers of the characters and that you can't take what they say to be factually true outside of the game. Secondly, nice job in cutting your quote off. It reads fully:

The New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Jerec outranked the Dark Side Adepts such as Hethrir, Sedriss, and Kadann but they viewed him as a turncoat waiting for the right opportunity to stab them in the back.

Yeah, he outranks them. As in he has higher authority than they do. This has nothing to do with power, and the quote itself implies that. None of them respect him and they think he would stab them in the back rather than deal with them head on. And on the subject of people outranking other people, Sedriss later on outranks Jerec when Palpatine chooses him to lead the Dark Side Elite, passing over Jerec:

The Dark Forces Saga, Part 3: Pride Of The Dark Side wrote:One man who took the title of Dark Jedi with pride was Jerec -- the enigmatic Force-user who murdered Kyle Katarn's father -- but he did not do so alone. Inspired by glimpses into the Emperor's Dark Side Compendium, Jerec intended to bring to fruition an experiment Palpatine had spoken of in his malignant tome: the creation of a unit of seven Dark Jedi perfectly absorbed into the Emperor's will, a "Dark Side Elite." Unfortunately for Jerec, the Emperor readily recognized the darksider's ambition and denied Jerec further access to the Compendium, ending the audacious experiment. Nonetheless, Jerec at least managed to assemble a cabal of Dark Jedi willing to do his bidding.


This quote also ends the nonsense about Jerec not being Palpatine's disciple.

As for the quote BoD posted, it explicitly refers to power. It also doesn't come from a game guide that admits it is stretching the truth. Trying to dismiss it for using the word "perhaps" is ridiculous. Numerous accolades use "perhaps" or "possibly". So, the above quote and the power quote is why I say Sedriss is objectively Jerec's superior.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 11th 2020, 2:59 pm
i see i see
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator
Moderator

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 11th 2020, 3:07 pm
Zannah for sure.
Gaunter O'Dimm
Gaunter O'Dimm

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 12th 2020, 3:10 pm
@Corvinus wrote:@Gaunter O'Dimm

A couple of things to start with. Firstly, regardless of whether Jerec is inferior to Sedriss (he is) it doesn't stop the quote from being true. The publisher admits they exaggerate  the powers of the characters and that you can't take what they say to be factually true outside of the game. Secondly, nice job in cutting your quote off. It reads fully:

The New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Jerec outranked the Dark Side Adepts such as Hethrir, Sedriss, and Kadann but they viewed him as a turncoat waiting for the right opportunity to stab them in the back.

Yeah, he outranks them. As in he has higher authority than they do. This has nothing to do with power, and the quote itself implies that. None of them respect him and they think he would stab them in the back rather than deal with them head on. And on the subject of people outranking other people, Sedriss later on outranks Jerec when Palpatine chooses him to lead the Dark Side Elite, passing over Jerec:

The Dark Forces Saga, Part 3: Pride Of The Dark Side wrote:One man who took the title of Dark Jedi with pride was Jerec -- the enigmatic Force-user who murdered Kyle Katarn's father -- but he did not do so alone. Inspired by glimpses into the Emperor's Dark Side Compendium, Jerec intended to bring to fruition an experiment Palpatine had spoken of in his malignant tome: the creation of a unit of seven Dark Jedi perfectly absorbed into the Emperor's will, a "Dark Side Elite." Unfortunately for Jerec, the Emperor readily recognized the darksider's ambition and denied Jerec further access to the Compendium, ending the audacious experiment. Nonetheless, Jerec at least managed to assemble a cabal of Dark Jedi willing to do his bidding.


This quote also ends the nonsense about Jerec not being Palpatine's disciple.

As for the quote BoD posted, it explicitly refers to power. It also doesn't come from a game guide that admits it is stretching the truth. Trying to dismiss it for using the word "perhaps" is ridiculous. Numerous accolades use "perhaps" or "possibly". So, the above quote and the power quote is why I say Sedriss is objectively Jerec's superior.

Except I'm not using a quote from the game? Since when The New Essential Guide to Characters is a game guide?

Their personal view of Jerec in no way, shape or form indicates Jerec's inferiority to them. And even if he would rather stab them in the back rather than face them directly, what of it? Why use a sword, when a dagger will suffice? Since when pragmatism = inferiority? 

And you outright ignore the fact that power and abilities are clearly factors when being granted specific rank or title in the Empire:
The New Essential Chronology wrote:During the Empire's reign, Hethrir and his mate, Rillao, had been trained by Darth Vader in the ways of the Dark Jedi. Palpatine was so impressed with Hethrir's abilities that he promoted him to Procurator of Justice - an unprecedented appointment for a nonhuman in the New Order.

Unless of course you claim that Jerec was such a master manipulator that he fooled Palpatine into granting him a rank of High Inquisitor without Jerec meeting the necessary criteria of power and abilities... 

The quote you provided explicitly says that "Jerec intended to bring to fruition an experiment Palpatine had spoken of". And since both Jerec and Palpatine had to be, well, alive for Palpatine to restrict Jerec's access to the Compendium, this had to occur prior to the Battle of Endor. Provide a proof that Dark Side Elite was established during the Palpatine's reign, and not during Dark Empire. And even if you prove that, you still need to prove that appointing Sedriss had anything to do with Jerec's power being inferior to that of Sedriss, when your quote says outright that it was Jerec's "ambition" which prompted Palpatine to restrict Jerec's access to the Compendium. 

Having "glimpses" into one of Palp's books doesn't automatically make Jerec Palpatine's disciple, especially since he was plotting against him since day one. Does having access to Revan's holocron makes Bane Revan's disciple?

Again, the quote about Jerec outranking Sedriss doesn't come from a game guide.

Prey tell, what is more ridiculous? Questioning (not "dismissing", questioning) a quote which starts with a word "perhaps", or blindly buying it beceuse "numerous accolades use "perhaps" or "possibly"? Think long and hard about that.
Isv
Isv
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 13th 2020, 9:04 am
Bane almost dies when performing death field while amped.

Jerec performs a death field that withers and ashes spore without breaking a sweat. Direct feat comparison there.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level One
Level One

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 13th 2020, 10:55 am
B Isv wrote:Bane almost dies when performing death field while amped.

No he doesn’t
Corvinus
Corvinus

Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

on February 22nd 2020, 5:05 pm
@Gaunter O'Dimm


Except I'm not using a quote from the game? Since when The New Essential Guide to Characters is a game guide?


You seem to be confused. Jerec being a rival of Vader is the quote that comes from a game guide.

Their personal view of Jerec in no way, shape or form indicates Jerec's inferiority to them. And even if he would rather stab them in the back rather than face them directly, what of it? Why use a sword, when a dagger will suffice? Since when pragmatism = inferiority? 

His rank doesn't indicate superior power to them either, otherwise it would explicitly mention power.

And you outright ignore the fact that power and abilities are clearly factors when being granted specific rank or title in the Empire:


Not really, since it outright states that his abilities were enough to make up for him not being born a human. This doesn't mean you have to have certain abilities to hold a certain position, it just means this particular position has never been held by a nonhuman before.  

Unless of course you claim that Jerec was such a master manipulator that he fooled Palpatine into granting him a rank of High Inquisitor without Jerec meeting the necessary criteria of power and abilities... 

The quote you provided explicitly says that "Jerec intended to bring to fruition an experiment Palpatine had spoken of". And since both Jerec and Palpatine had to be, well, alive for Palpatine to restrict Jerec's access to the Compendium, this had to occur prior to the Battle of Endor. Provide a proof that Dark Side Elite was established during the Palpatine's reign, and not during Dark Empire. And even if you prove that, you still need to prove that appointing Sedriss had anything to do with Jerec's power being inferior to that of Sedriss, when your quote says outright that it was Jerec's "ambition" which prompted Palpatine to restrict Jerec's access to the Compendium. 

Having "glimpses" into one of Palp's books doesn't automatically make Jerec Palpatine's disciple, especially since he was plotting against him since day one. Does having access to Revan's holocron makes Bane Revan's disciple?


Jerec was a Jedi Master, it was policy at the time for the Inquisitorius to hunt down Jedi and either convert them or kill them. By converting and agreeing to serve Palpatine, he became his disciple. Palpatine then offered him more Force knowledge in the form of a book, which he could grant or deny Jerec access to.

Studying from a holocron you've hunted down independently is different from being given access to books (or holocrons) to study by your master.

Again, the quote about Jerec outranking Sedriss doesn't come from a game guide.

Already addressed.

Prey tell, what is more ridiculous? Questioning (not "dismissing", questioning) a quote which starts with a word "perhaps", or blindly buying it beceuse "numerous accolades use "perhaps" or "possibly"? Think long and hard about that.


What you are doing, obviously. You are not questioning quotes, you are nitpicking particular words in a quote in order to justify dismissing them.
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Jerec versus Darth Zannah Empty Re: Jerec versus Darth Zannah

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