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DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 1st 2020, 11:14 pm
Message reputation : 100% (8 votes)
DISCLAIMER: As of v1.0, the programs shared below do NOT support mobile devices. I recommend reading this thread only on a laptop or desktop.

Introduction


Hello everyone. I'm excited to announce a project I've been working on for four months now with other members. A pervasive issue throughout Star Wars debating is comparing feats of different Force abilities. For example, how do you compare a Jedi using battle meditation on fifty thousand soldiers to a dark Jedi mind dominating seven opponents to a Sith telekinetically hurling a fifty ton cruiser? As it stands, we cannot really say. This dilemma commonly kills debates before they begin or excludes certain characters and feats from the debate floor despite being impressive. So, I devised a means to (hopefully) better objectively measure different Force abilities.

Justification


Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game is a d6 role-playing game active from 1987 to 1998. You are probably familiar with some of its supplementary sourcebooks, such as the Dark Empire Sourcebook (1993), Tales of the Jedi Companion (1996), and Jedi Academy Sourcebook (1996). These guides set the groundwork for a lot of the expanded universe. According to editor Bill Slavicsek, "Lucasfilm Licensing decided they wanted everything to match up, and our products became the reference materials for the other licensees." Notably, Licensing sent Timothy Zahn a box of every sourcebook and directed him to ensure his Thrawn Trilogy was consistent with them. Later, Wizards of the Coast launched a d20 role-playing game active from 2000 to 2010, which included popular guides like the Dark Side Sourcebook (2001), Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (2002), and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide (2008). These sourcebooks were also rigorously reviewed by Lucasfilm Licensing.

There is nigh-unanimous agreement across the Star Wars debating community that gauging character power levels through analysis and debate of feats, accolades, and scaling yields a more accurate picture than just using the numbers ascribed on trading cards or roleplaying statistics. However, that does not mean that these vetted and published secondary canon (S-Canon) sources cannot be utilized in situations where we have no alternative methodology. Specifically, we currently have no way to compare the impressiveness of feats across different Force abilities or which Force abilities a character is disproportionately good or poor with. In line with how Holocron continuity database administrator Leland Chee uses roleplaying statistics "to see what type of Force powers a character may have" and as "a basis of comparison" "if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle," I have created programs to tackle the issues highlighted in red above. Note that Licensing continuity policy states, "A book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction," so anything here cannot be used in replace of actual quotes or feats showing or suggesting the opposite. 

DISCLAIMER: The programs found below are not forum policy. Members are unequivocally not obligated to use them if they do not want to, and members who do want to use them have no say if another member does not recognize its findings. This is just for people who want to use it with other people who want to use it.

Ability statistics




(The program does NOT support mobile devices. If you cannot view the program, go to your "Profile" -> "Preferences" -> Select "Yes" for "Always allow HTML.")

The ABILITY STATISTICS program allows you to directly compare the difficulty of feats across different Force abilities. The d6 role-playing game set difficulty values for twenty-one Force abilities, which the program visualizes. You can modify the conditions for any Force ability (e.g. amount of targets mind controlled, weight of object lifted, distance from target, etc.), and the program will adjust its difficulty values for the three Force spheres (alter, control, and sense) and overall. An 80 overall difficulty rating for both "control mind" and "telekinesis", given the conditions you set, means they would be equally difficult for a Force user to perform. However, the difficulty values are not linear; rather, they work quasi-exponentially. A feat with a 75 overall difficulty rating isn't "half" as difficult as a one with 150 difficulty, nor is a feat with a 15 overall difficulty necessarily close to a feat with 30 difficulty. Thus, you cannot extrapolate difficulty values beyond the statistical ranges provided (e.g. the difficulty rating for lifting a million metric ton object is simply unknown). Note that the difficulty values assume the feat is completed within roughly five seconds. Also, note that if you click a field and the options menu appears clipped to the side of the screen, scroll further up or down on the program then try again. 

Example A: "The dark Jedi reached out and shattered the minds of the three enemy soldiers that approached him. Utterly enslaved to his will, they were forced to turn around and fire on their fellow comrades."

This is a demonstration of "control mind." Using the ability statistics program, we can modify the "control mind" field to match this situation. Note that the "control mind" calculations "do not include the target's Force and mental resistance," so this and other similar Force abilities offer merely the minimum possible output to assess.

Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Contro11

This feat has a 67 difficulty rating. Now, let's work with the "telekinesis" ability and see what yields approximately a 67.

Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Teleki13

Demonstrably, telepathically dominating three unwilling strangers within five seconds is roughly as difficult as throwing a hundred metric ton object (i.e. the maximum takeoff weight of a Boeing 757 airplane) across seventy meters of space within five seconds. Thus, we now have a frame of reference for the dark Jedi's power.

Example B: "The Jedi Master opened himself to the raging battle of ten thousand rebels and Imperials around him. Reaching out to both fleets, he amplified the resolve of his allies and the fear of his enemies. Soon, the tide of the battle turned."

This is a demonstration of "battle meditation." Using the ability statistics program, we can modify the "battle meditation" field to match this situation.

Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Battle17

This feat has a 90 difficulty rating, meaning employing battle meditation on ten thousand individuals is more difficult than the feats from example A.

Note that the difficulty ratings assume a character is equally proficient in all abilities. However, this isn't always the case. Whether by way of biological disposition or concentrated training, some Force users are disproportionately proficient in specific abilities. While Bastila Shan, a legendary battle meditation prodigy, may be able to match and surpass the 90 difficulty rating for battle meditation, that does not necessarily mean she can replicate a 90 difficulty rating telekinetic feat. How do we factor in these specialized characters to the statistics? More importantly, how do we know which Force users are specialized ... and toward which abilities? Introducing ...

Character statistics




(The program does NOT support mobile devices. If you cannot view the program, go to your "Profile" -> "Preferences" -> Select "Yes" for "Always allow HTML.")

The d20 roleplaying game lists Force users' skill levels for many different Force abilities (e.g. Palpatine has a 16 in Force choke, 15 in control mind, 23 in farsight, etc.). These values are made relative to the character's overall power and not to be compared across Force users. Consequently, the CHARACTER STATISTICS program showcases a character's relative proficiency across multiple Force abilities. This was done by pre-setting an "anchor" Force ability -- generally Force push or enhance ability -- at 100%. All other Force abilities have then been turned in percentages relative to the "anchor", revealing roughly what Force abilities a Force user is uniquely gifted or poor in. For example, a 200% in affect mind indicates the character is uniquely and greatly accomplished in the ability, whereas a 50% suggests the opposite. If a Force user does not have any percentage next to a Force ability, that simply means no sourcebook has presented data either-way.

Again, let's look at two examples of how to apply the character statistics program correctly. 

Example A: Bastila Shan

Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Bastil10

Bastila's "anchor" Force ability is Force push, as indicated by it being 100%. Relative to Force power, she is disproportionately inept in many abilities. While having 90% or even 80% for abilities is not that relevant, her relative capabilities in Force grip, move object, battlemind, and farsight are significantly sub-par at 50%. However, her "inspire" and "influence" proficiency, the two central components to battle meditation, is radically high. This proves that Bastila's battle meditation feats are not translatable to other Force abilities, meaning Bastila's 90+ difficulty rating in battle meditation does not suggest that she can also telekinetically hurl a hundred metric ton object. 

Example B: Darth Malak

Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Darth_11

The character statistics program both aligns with established lore positions and introduces new dynamics. Malak's statistics, for example, reveal that he has unnaturally potent Force lightning and Force fear powers. Also, note that Malak has many abilities hovering around 130%. Rather than being disproportionately adept in all those abilities, it is instead more likely that Malak's Force push is just notably less refined than his Force grip, control mind, enhance ability, etc.

Below are the descriptions for all the Force abilities. Specifically note the comments for Force push, move object, enhance ability, battle mind, and Force defense.

Spoiler:
ALTER:
Force Push: You attack one or more opponents using the Force. Note that skill levels may differ between it and move object.
Force Grip: You use the Force to find the lines of energy that connect all things together and using them to grip an organ or crush a larynx.
Move Object: You move objects and living beings using the Force. Note that skill levels may differ between it and Force push.
Force Lightning: You draw upon the dark side of the Force to blast targets with deadly bolts of energy.
Drain Energy: You deplete lightsabers, energy cells, and similar power sources of energy.
Alchemy: You alter the molecular composition of living beings or reshape inanimate matter.
Force Light: You channel the Force into withering blasts of light that can destroy dark side spirits or purge the taint from dark side locations.
Sever Force: You block a Force user's access to the Force.
Heal Another: You use the Force to heal damage taken by another person.
Affect Mind: You alter a target’s perceptions or make a telepathic suggestion in another character’s mind.
Control Mind: You guide the actions of allies, overriding and replacing their mental processes or increasing their efficiency. 
Force Fear: You manipulate the Force to learn what frightens others and use that against them, making them more susceptible to the dark side.
Illusion: You use the Force to manifest false visual and auditory images that seem completely real to those who perceive them.
Drain Knowledge: You drain specific memories from a victim’s mind.
Influence: You envision a specific outcome of a combat and help make it a reality through the Force.
Inspire: You fill allies with the conviction that they are going to succeed, despite any odds, making them more dedicated and less likely to give up.

CONTROL:
Enhance Ability: You call on the Force to enhance your physical strength, speed, hand-eye coordination, agility, reflexes, and balance. This ability's statistics denotes the depth and/or duration a Force user can operate with enhanced abilities compared to a standard Force user of the same power level.
Battlemind: You increase your prowess in combat, using the Force to enhance your concentration and commitment in battle.
Force Defense: You use the Force to improve your resistance to Force-based attacks, wrapping yourself in the Force. Note that this ability is not tutaminis.
Force Stealth: You meditate and lose yourself in the Force, avoiding Force-based detection.
Heal Self: You use the Force to heal damage you have taken.

SENSE:
Force Sense: You detect the presence of the Force in someone or something by examining the emanations and currents in the Force.
Farsight: You use the Force to gain vague impressions of events happening in other places or times.
Empathy: You reach into the Force to read a target’s surface emotions, getting a sense of the target’s general state of mind.
Telepathy: You use the Force to establish a mental link with a specific target and then exchange emotions and single thoughts.
Enhance Senses: You use the Force to enhance your non-combative sensory capabilities.

Note that the character's iteration is shown to the right of the name. Because some iterations are not the character's prime, take note of what source it lists. Also, some characters may have multiple different statistics for the same iteration (e.g. "Darth Vader | ANH | 1" and "Darth Vader | ANH | 2"). Most of these differences are minor and minimally affect extrapolating information. However, a significant discrepancy may mean that a Force user's skill in that specific Force ability cannot be reliably found. 

Forum usage


To use the ability statistics program or the character statistics program in a post, click Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 S5y96PO or Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Webp_n11 respectively on the quick reply editor bar. This will automatically copy-and-paste text into your edit post box that will transform into the program once you hit publish. The programs cannot be preemptively viewed via preview mode.

DISCLAIMER: As of v1.0, the programs do NOT support mobile devices. [hideedit]

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to write them below. A mobile-friendly v2.0 will be released in the upcoming weeks with additional character statistics.


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on February 27th 2020, 11:28 am; edited 19 times in total
BoD
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 1st 2020, 11:20 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
This is really nice work. Will take some time to understand it, however just to clarify is it just using the d20 system, or combining multiple cards, games, etc? Sorry if you already answered this.
DarthAnt66
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 1st 2020, 11:28 pm
BreakofDawn wrote:This is really nice work. Will take some time to understand it, however just to clarify is it just using the d20 system, or combining multiple cards, games, etc? Sorry if you already answered this.

Thanks! v1.0 uses the d6 system for the ability statistics program and the pre-2007 d20 system for the character statistics program. For v2.0, I plan to incorporate other sources, especially the saga edition d20 system, to get information for Revan, Starkiller, Darth Plagueis, etc., but I need to look further into their mechanics.
ScionOfSkywalker77
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on January 1st 2020, 11:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
This is sweet and will hopefully improve the overall complexity of SW debating, although it's gonna take a lot of getting used to.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 1st 2020, 11:30 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
First things first, huge super mega thanks for doing this. its looks  F U C K I N G amazing. 

Im actually famously bad at getting some else's meaning when reading something that they wrote, so im sorry if one of my questions have already been answered.

First and foremost, the the percentage part u mentioned simply means HOW easily one can perform said ability or how SKILLED they are with it? i assume it is the easiness, correct?

U guys are going to release information on other characters? 

So TPing three normal non force users (circumstances included) is about as HARD as lifting an airplane (circumstances included) or does just 'waste the same amount of force points'?
DarthAnt66
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 2nd 2020, 12:07 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:First things first, huge super mega thanks for doing this. its looks  F U C K I N G amazing. 

First and foremost, the the percentage part u mentioned simply means HOW easily one can perform said ability or how SKILLED they are with it? i assume it is the easiness, correct?

Thanks! And imagine two equally powerful Force users, but character A has a 100% in affect mind whereas character B has a 50% in affect mind. If both apply equal Force exertion to influence an opponent, character A will have far greater success. Character B will have to apply significantly greater Force exertion to match character A. This difference in difficulty can be due to character B being born without a propensity for the ability or having trained less than normal in the ability. Alternatively, if a character has a 200% in affect mind, that means they were either born with a great aptitude in the ability or have trained extensively to get above and beyond the norm in the ability. 

U guys are going to release information on other characters? 

Yes, I have plans to add another 70+ characters to the characters statistics program in the upcoming weeks. 

So TPing three normal non force users (circumstances included) is about as HARD as lifting an airplane (circumstances included) or does just 'waste the same amount of force points'?

Both I and the d6 roleplaying system equate the level of Force exertion needed to complete the feat with the difficult of performing the feat, so I would say both.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 2nd 2020, 12:49 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
ah i see. its like two equally fast swimmers, but one has far better technique, or experience. or both are equally skilled and experienced, but one is leaner, or can move his arms at top speed for longer. and 200% is not only a talented, but also extremely skilled AND strong 'user' of said ability.

dude, 70 is a lot of characters. i assume they are mostly protags, or antags then, but mostly main ish ones.

ah ok ok. is there something 200% percent is that the literal best?
MasterCilghal
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on January 2nd 2020, 4:01 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Great work Ant. I’ve been waiting for it for a long time. Hopefully it will help with SW debating and finally allow certain characters to get more respect.
BoD
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 2nd 2020, 8:51 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
In before Star Wars characters become the new superhero power level franchise.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 2nd 2020, 9:27 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@darthant66 could u answer my questions above?
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 2nd 2020, 10:00 pm
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something else i noticed is that mind fucking someone who is ur enemy is kind of a big deal, per the thingy there.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 2nd 2020, 11:58 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
is this a reliable comparison of feats?
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 3rd 2020, 11:06 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
is 100% simply mean mastery of an ability, or is it literally just how it compares to his skill with other abilities? for example, Luke having 50% on something, and 200% on something else, would that mean he is 4 times more skilled at the second thing than the first?
DarthAnt66
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 4th 2020, 3:45 am
Sorry for the delay in the response. I'll get back to you tomorrow. Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 1289255181
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 4th 2020, 12:02 pm
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That's fine that's fine
The lord of hunger
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Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0 Empty Re: Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.0

on January 8th 2020, 9:56 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Great stuff :3
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