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Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:16
IG (Exists) wrote:
@Corvinus wrote:This is A'Sharad Hett, not Darth Krayt. Both versions of Darth Vader win decisively.
Based on what, kek? Hett puts up a great fight against Obi Wan, who's >> Vader.


Based on him admitting inferiority, and it wasn't a great fight. Obi-Wan just wanted him to leave, he didn't go all out like he did with Anakin.

Also, Obi-Wan knows Anakin's fighting style inside and out, and Anakin was highly emotional in that duel. Obi-Wan can't replicate that feat against other top tier opponents.
IG
IG
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Level Two

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:19
Except Suit Vader’s ass gets handed to him by any pre suit Rots iteration of himself... also, Kenobi was likely amped by his need to protect luke
Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:28
IG (Exists) wrote:Except Suit Vader’s ass gets handed to him by any pre suit Rots iteration of himself... also, Kenobi was likely amped by his need to protect luke


Not any version no, only Knightfall version. That has no bearing on this fight regardless.

Motivation doesn't give you an amp, at least not in the same way a Force nexus does. Still, that's unlikely to be the case as, since I stated, he didn't even go all out.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
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Level One

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:30
IG (Exists) wrote:
@Corvinus wrote:This is A'Sharad Hett, not Darth Krayt. Both versions of Darth Vader win decisively.
Based on what, kek? Hett puts up a great fight against Obi Wan, who's >> Vader.

No, he didn’t. Boba Fett performed better against an earlier Kenobi than the one Hett faced, does that now mean teen Boba Fett would put up a good fight against an all-out, full swing ROTS Obi-Wan? Absolutely not, and the same applies to Hett.
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:30
When she emerges her first question is if they had removed Muur. If they had been locked in a mental battle for millennia she would have been aware when she woke up. There wouldn't have been a break in her consciousness. The phrase

"With only the voice of Muur to keep me company"

Is referring to being sealed with Muur. Not that they were conscious. This is made clear by Muur, who rather than remarking "finally!" or anything else, refers to wasted time.

1. I addressed the mental battle within the oubliette in my post, if you'd actually read it instead of skimming.
2. No, it is not referring to being sealed with Muur. Zayne's plan was to free Morne from the oubliette once he and the Jedi had found a way to free her from Karness. That's why the first word she says when the oubliette is opened is "Zayne!"


Celeste is never stated to have meditated or even to have fought Muur during stasis. The most that's ever implied is that she had nightmares. AKA dreams, she wasn't conscious.

Interesting argument. One problem:

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco06310
Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco08210

Merciful guy, that Dreypa. Putting his enemies to sleep forever in a casket is his idea of torture. If only someone like Muur had dialogue along the lines of "No sensor could pierce it to find a hint of your existence - but you would know, living inside the darkness for as long as I command" to suggest that the victim is kept conscious during all of it. 



Moreover it's made a point while fighting Vader that she was consumed by despair and anger, yet wouldn't use the dark side. A state of mind which has always resulted in LS user being significantly hindered. 

And now you're cherry-picking.

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco10910 Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco11110

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco11410

A character quite clearly drawing upon her emotions and using the dark side. Vader even confirms this. She's tapping into the dark side without fully surrendering to it. What you're referring to her "refusing to give into it" is her refusing to fully succumb to the dark side and join Vader. Nothing stopped her from tapping into it like Luke. 

The bit you're talking about is near the end of the duel, right after she realises she can't beat Vader:

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco11812 Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Rco11912
Spin it however you'd like. You have a Jedi kept in conscious stasis for 4,000 years with nothing to do but meditate and sleep, either of which would help her growth (one admittedly more than the other).
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:37
Who's Corvinsus?


Based on what, kek? Hett puts up a great fight against Obi Wan, who's >> Vader.





He did not think about how long it had been since he had last used his lightsaber in combat.

-

....and that the Tusken was far more experienced at fighting in the desert.


-


Ben blocked each blow, but he wasn't doing it with ease. Hett was far more experienced at fighting on the sand and in the desert heat. Ben knew that his opponent would never surrender, let alone withdraw. As much as he hoped to avoid killing Hett, he also knew that they couldn't keep fighting indefinitely.
But in the end, Ben knew he wasn't fighting for his own life. He was fighting for Luke's .
Quickly raising his left hand, Ben used the Force to push out at Hett, shoving him back through the air as Ben's lightsaber swept up and through Hett's right arm. Hett shouted as his arm fell away from his body. As Hett stumbled back, Ben used the Force to tear Hett's other lightsaber from his left hand's grip. Both of Hett's lightsabers deactivated as they sailed past Ben and landed in the sand behind him.

Hett crumpled to his knees.


Obi-Wan was trying not to kill Hett while at a decent disadvantage. When he realised Hett would never surrender or leave, he quickly cut off his arm. 
And Obi-Wan is not >> any version of Vader. That's rubbish. Even his MF self had the advantage of Anakin's instability vs his rationality and his intimate knowledge of Anakin's fighting style.
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
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Level Five

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:44
@BOD (Away): Vader tells her she has to give into her power and embrace the dark side. That's not the same as her already embracing the dark side and Vader acknowledging it. In fact that's the opposite really. You basically confirmed Grey's point unintentionally.
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:48
Vader is able to feel her immersed in these emotions: anger, fear, self-loathing, etc. He's trying to get her to surrender and to become his apprentice, but Morne is instead using these emotions to try and kill him as she still thinks of herself as a Jedi while using these emotions. You're still able to draw upon the dark side without being completely consumed by them. Morne is another example of that: finding out that the Republic is gone by the Sith in front of her, she also wants to kill him and stop Vader from gaining the talisman. If anything, she'd be operating at her absolute best to stop a galactic level threat.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:49
Not accurate, iirc. The start of the novel is indeed only 4 weeks after ROTS (per vader's point of view. Roan's POV starts at the exact moment order 66 it put into action). Then there is a time skip, enough that roan is rusty, and has a non existent connection to the force just before the fight, while before that, he could still amp, and TK shit around, even if some struggle was present. Then, after he talks to sheev, a few weeks pass. Two sources say that the battle of kashyyk, in which roan died, say 19 BBY (essential readers companion, and the novel itself). I did find something that says that the subjugation of kashyyk takes two months after the declaration of the empire. It started 16:7, if that means anything. Annnnnnnd the fight between the two happens at about almost literally the same time. Like, 1 months difference. Seems like they were BOD, the duel between Vader and Celeste is indeed after he kills Roan. The fight between him and Roan likely happens at 16:7 more or less, while his and Celeste's duel happens at 16:8.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Kashyyyk_(19_BBY)

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/First_duel_on_unidentified_desert_moon

So yeah, he had the amp by that point.
BoD
BoD
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 17:49
Any counters or other inputs will have to wait for a response. I'm focusing on some of my other outstanding responses, including two SS's.
Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:00
I'm new to the forum. Just joined today.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Level One

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:01
ok? want a cookie or something? 

im jk jk. where u from? comicvine? spacebattles? italy?
Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:05
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:ok? want a cookie or something? 

im jk jk. where u from? comicvine? spacebattles? italy?


Nah, the poster above me asked who I was and I don't know how to tag.

I'm a long time lurker, and I'm from England.
BoD
BoD
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:06
@Corvinus @(put username here). For members with multi-word names, do @"(insert username here)".
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:10
i was gonna say England instead of italy. damnit
Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:11
BoD (Away) wrote:@Corvinus @(put username here). For members with multi-word names, do @"(insert username here)".


Thanks, I'll remember that.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:11
u better, its not that complicated lmaoo
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:23
vader and its not that close
Isv
Isv
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:26
When did Grey become just as dumb as the idiots he fought against? If I must I will return to put this little aussie in his place. Like his precious country he will burn
The Dragon Of The West
The Dragon Of The West
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 18:31
@Corvinus

Based on him admitting inferiority, and it wasn't a great fight.

Hett never admits inferiority to Vader.

Obi-Wan just wanted him to leave, he didn't go all out like he did with Anakin. Also, Obi-Wan knows Anakin's fighting style inside and out, and Anakin was highly emotional in that duel. Obi-Wan can't replicate that feat against other top tier opponents.

No one drew comparisons with Anakin in this thread. Just because Obi-Wan didn't want to kill Hett that doesn't mean the entire fight doesn't matter. In the fight:

-Hett lands several physical strikes on Kenobi.
-Hett pressures Kenobi to the point where Kenobi wasn't close to blocking his attacks with ease.

You're going to need to explain to me how this doesn't even indicate loose parity between the two and why it's not relevant in a matchup against Vader. Vader likewise is significantly below Kenobi (he's stalemated by a post-prime Kenobi), so all things considered this should be a pretty decent matchup and I'm not convinced Vader takes this "decisively".

OT - While I think it's close Vader probably does win.
Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 19:08
NotAA3 wrote:@Corvinus

Based on him admitting inferiority, and it wasn't a great fight.

Hett never admits inferiority to Vader.

Obi-Wan just wanted him to leave, he didn't go all out like he did with Anakin. Also, Obi-Wan knows Anakin's fighting style inside and out, and Anakin was highly emotional in that duel. Obi-Wan can't replicate that feat against other top tier opponents.

No one drew comparisons with Anakin in this thread. Just because Obi-Wan didn't want to kill Hett that doesn't mean the entire fight doesn't matter. In the fight:

-Hett lands several physical strikes on Kenobi.
-Hett pressures Kenobi to the point where Kenobi wasn't close to blocking his attacks with ease.

You're going to need to explain to me how this doesn't even indicate loose parity between the two and why it's not relevant in a matchup against Vader. Vader likewise is significantly below Kenobi (he's stalemated by a post-prime Kenobi), so all things considered this should be a pretty decent matchup and I'm not convinced Vader takes this "decisively".

OT - While I think it's close Vader probably does win.

Hett admitted inferiority when he agreed to become XoXaan's student, specifically in order to grow strong enough to kill Darth Vader.

And IG brought up Obi-Wan beating Darth Vader.
The Dragon Of The West
The Dragon Of The West
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Level Three

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 19:14
@Corvinus

Hett admitted inferiority when he agreed to become XoXaan's student, specifically in order to grow strong enough to kill Darth Vader.

No, he agreed to become XoXaan's student in order to grow strong enough to kill Vader and Palpatine. This is kinda a crucial detail which you missed, and completely changes the meaning of his statement.

And IG brought up Obi-Wan beating Darth Vader.

Which part of my post are you even responding to with this? It's kinda hard to know when you just quote the whole thing lol.
The Dragon Of The West
The Dragon Of The West
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Level Three

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 19:16
You also basically ignored everything I wrote in regards to comparisons with Kenobi on Hett vs Vader, which is disappointing.
Corvinus
Corvinus

Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 19:27
NotAA3 wrote:@Corvinus

Hett admitted inferiority when he agreed to become XoXaan's student, specifically in order to grow strong enough to kill Darth Vader.

No, he agreed to become XoXaan's student in order to grow strong enough to kill Vader and Palpatine. This is kinda a crucial detail which you missed, and completely changes the meaning of his statement.

And IG brought up Obi-Wan beating Darth Vader.

Which part of my post are you even responding to with this? It's kinda hard to know when you just quote the whole thing lol.


It wasn't common knowledge that Palpatine was a Sith Lord at that time. He wants revenge on Palpatine for killing off the Jedi Order with Order 66.


Obviously the part about Anakin lol. Did that really need to be explicitly pointed out to you?


NotAA3 wrote:You also basically ignored everything I wrote in regards to comparisons with Kenobi on Hett vs Vader, which is disappointing.

Except when I said Obi-Wan wasn't going all out?

BoD went into more detail on this page about that "duel".
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 4 Empty Re: Darth Vader vs A'Sharad Hett

on Thu 16 Jan - 19:34
funny when we have people who met obi wan say that vader > obi wan

how 
about
that
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