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HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:09 am
Hmm, now I want to see an SS between Az and lorenzo for Vader versus TPM Sheev TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 1019854026
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:13 am
i asked someone if they wanted to do it. im up for it to be honest. its fun as kark doing these.
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BoD (Away)
Level Six
Level Six

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:19 am
@Meatpants wrote:
BreakofDawn wrote:Which still does not answer my question. We have multiple sources (including one approved by Lucas and some from Lucas himself) suggesting that Vader > Luke as a Force user but = him in sabers, so how does ragdolling Luke mean he could ragdoll Vader?

I don't understand why that's relevant even if it was true. Unless Vader is significantly more powerful than Luke, he's getting ragdolled. Notwithstanding that Lucas basically said Sidious could have dealt with both easily, and that's the intent you get from watching the movie and just common sense.

No, he said he could deal with Luke easily, "then Vader would be in trouble". He also says that neither could beat Sidious, which is a given. He says nothing about him being able to ragdoll him. 

Again, this version of Sheev has about 30 years of growth on his TPM self. Stuff he can do (such as ragdolling Luke) doesn't necessarily mean that his younger iteration could repeat.
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BoD (Away)
Level Six
Level Six

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:20 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:It may not be a ragdoll but Sheev does dominate Vader. He outclasses Vader in every area except for durability. His arsenal is too much for Vader to handle. He can surely tank his lightning but combined with Palpatine's exceptional skill and speed, he cannot keep up with all of these and the limitations of his suit doesn't make it any easier for him.
I agree that he dominates, but people mix up dominating (which is solidly beating someone) and ragdolling (which is flicking someone around wirh little effort), and it gives the completely wrong impression. Vader is pretty substantially outside of TPM Sheev's ragdoll range, and can give him a challenge. He does, however, get dominated and slaughtered in sabers.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:21 am
@BreakofDawn

Again, Sheev's growth in power is irrelevant because he wasn't drawing beyond his body to ragdoll Luke. He did it effortlessly. Vader is his equal in the Force. Show me the evidence that's wrong.
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BoD (Away)
Level Six
Level Six

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:24 am
@Meatpants wrote:@BreakofDawn

Again, Sheev's growth in power is irrelevant because he wasn't drawing beyond his body to ragdoll Luke. He did it effortlessly. Vader is his equal in the Force. Show me the evidence that's wrong.
I've given an overview of the Vader vs ROTJ Luke discussion in my respect thread, and I'm going in-depth in my upcoming "battle misconceptions" blog. 

Please show me a source saying Sheev reached his maximum ability to harness his power by TPM, because ROTS was clearly doing everything he could against Yoda and he had over 10 years of growth on this Sidious.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:27 am
By the way Vader isn't getting a Maul treatment from Sheev, even though he loses badly. Sheev would show way more effort than he did against Maul.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 10:27 am
how does sheev beat him so easily? im hella karking confused now
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 11:19 am
BreakofDawn wrote:I've given an overview of the Vader vs ROTJ Luke discussion in my respect thread, and I'm going in-depth in my upcoming "battle misconceptions" blog.

There are no misconceptions. I had a look at your blog. It's not a good idea to take much stock in Luke's opinion. He's got extremely limited training, and he thought Ben was this ultra powerful being (despite being considerably more powerful than Ben as of ROTJ). His conception of power levels is wonky as hell. Lucas liking the book doesn't lend any authority to a power level position from the bias of an IU character with kriff all training. What's more, we can't be entirely sure whether Luke is thinking specifically about ROTJ. Not sure what Mark Hamil's comments have to do with anything, he only says Luke is an equal swordsman to Vader - not mutually exclusive with him also being equally proficient in the Force. What we do have is a number of OOU and IU sources stating Luke = Vader, it's one of the most mentioned power level comparisons in Legends. So what you're really saying is that we should dismiss all of these sources because Luke thought Vader was more powerful than him, the guy who throughout the many years after ROTJ has shown consistently to have wrong points of view about power levels (because he had barely any training or experience).

BreakofDawn wrote:Please show me a source saying Sheev reached his maximum ability to harness his power by TPM, because ROTS was clearly doing everything he could against Yoda and he had over 10 years of growth on this Sidious.

You've read my SS posts, that's my evidence.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 1:04 pm
@BreakofDawn If Sidious can simply wave his hand and Luke dies (source: George Lucas), that implies an extremely casual exertion, nowhere near enough to indicate he would be drawing beyond his biological potential and damage himself. It's safe to say TPM Sidious could do the same.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 1:52 pm
lucas also said that ben is stronger than darth Vader by a full 50%. that makes ben stronger than sheev who is only 20% or so stronger. lucas is not reliable when talking about discrepancies in power lol
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek  - Page 3 Empty Re: TPM Darth Sidious vs Darth Vader (ROTJ) and Galen Marek

on December 19th 2019, 7:00 pm
Duo die horribly lol.
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