Spirit Valkorion vs pre-Plagueis boost Sidious

Rules


Force battle.
Valkorion is in a physical form but is his weakened self (chapter 8/chapter 12 of KOTFE). 
Battle to the death.

Sidious.

Valk with relative ease. While he's heavily weakened, he's able to simultaneously ragdoll the Outlander, Unchained Vaylin, and Arcann.

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Valk with relative ease. While he's heavily weakened, he's able to simultaneously ragdoll the Outlander, Unchained Vaylin, and Arcann.

That's prime Valk, not this Valk.

I'm very confused here. There's no such incarnation as "spirit Valkorion" that's weaker than the physical one. All Force power inherently resides in the spirit - the body is merely a vessel to manifest that power through. The reason Valkorion appears weaker in KotFE Chapter 8 is because the Outlander is an insufficient vessel that can't contain, much less efficiently channel, his full power. If you plop him in his actual body, he's going to be as powerful as he ever was.

WalkingInCircles wrote:

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Valk with relative ease. While he's heavily weakened, he's able to simultaneously ragdoll the Outlander, Unchained Vaylin, and Arcann.

That's prime Valk, not this Valk.

I'm even more confused now. There's no noted power growth Valkorion experiences during the story that would segregate his KotET Chapter 9 self from the rest of his appearances. The only thing you can argue is that he gained more strength by assimilating his children's essence, but that bond was severed by the Holocron. And that "ragdolling" wasn't even real; it was all a battle of wills taking place inside the Outlander's head. How it would translate to an actual telekinetic contest in the physical world is unknown.

I'm thinking of just merging this with the existing Palpatine vs. Valkorion thread as there isn't anything actually making this one unique unless you change the stipulations.

I'm very confused here. There's no such incarnation as "spirit Valkorion" that's weaker than the physical one. All Force power inherently resides in the spirit - the body is merely a vessel to manifest that power through. The reason Valkorion appears weaker in KotFE Chapter 8 is because the Outlander is an insufficient vessel that can't contain, much less efficiently channel, his full power. If you plop him in his actual body, he's going to be as powerful as he ever was.

Except every time one of Valk's host bodies has been struck down, he's been weakened as a result. It's irrespective of the Outlander unless we're taking the view that KOTET chapter 9 Outlander has the potential to harness all of Valkorion's power (indicating a level of comparability between the two in raw power), which is definitely not true. 

I'm even more confused now. There's no noted power growth Valkorion experiences during the story that would segregate his KotET Chapter 9 self from the rest of his appearances. The only thing you can argue is that he gained more strength by assimilating his children's essence, but that bond was severed by the Holocron. And that "ragdolling" wasn't even real; it was all a battle of wills taking place inside the Outlander's head. How it would translate to an actual telekinetic contest in the physical world is unknown.

We know exactly how it would turn out:

Sidious.

WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:

I'm very confused here. There's no such incarnation as "spirit Valkorion" that's weaker than the physical one. All Force power inherently resides in the spirit - the body is merely a vessel to manifest that power through. The reason Valkorion appears weaker in KotFE Chapter 8 is because the Outlander is an insufficient vessel that can't contain, much less efficiently channel, his full power. If you plop him in his actual body, he's going to be as powerful as he ever was.

Except every time one of Valk's host bodies has been struck down, he's been weakened as a result. It's irrespective of the Outlander unless we're taking the view that KOTET chapter 9 Outlander has the potential to harness all of Valkorion's power (indicating a level of comparability between the two in raw power), which is definitely not true. 

The only time I can recall was in Act III and that was when Vitiate was already diminished prior to his death - proof his death weakened him further?

And not sure what relevance the Outlander in the finale has to this point, but yeah, he was capable of housing Valkorion's full might at that point - the Immortal Emperor even states as such.

I'm even more confused now. There's no noted power growth Valkorion experiences during the story that would segregate his KotET Chapter 9 self from the rest of his appearances. The only thing you can argue is that he gained more strength by assimilating his children's essence, but that bond was severed by the Holocron. And that "ragdolling" wasn't even real; it was all a battle of wills taking place inside the Outlander's head. How it would translate to an actual telekinetic contest in the physical world is unknown.

We know exactly how it would turn out:

Not sure if even that's legitimate, but for the sake of the argument, let's accept it. Now, how does dominating the Outlander (an Arcann-tier Force-user) prove Valkorion could dominate Arcann, the Outlander, and Vaylin all at once as the dreamscape fight depicts?

I can't reply to any of this yet, but lol at prime Outlander being Arcann tier. That's lowballing if ever I've seen it.