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SithSauce
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on October 14th 2019, 12:33 pm
@MacialRecognition wrote:Not as immoral as wasting people's time with stupid questions
Is it immoral to masturbate to porn? - Page 2 815462187
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on October 14th 2019, 12:48 pm
@Latham2000 wrote:Strawman. 

I wasn't arguing that we must condemn the porn industry for creating unrealistic expectations of sex, I was saying that you shouldn't watch porn and jump to the conclusion that you can easily replicate the stuff that the actors do because porn videos aren't just made by two people simply having sex, it also involves other variables too, which are unlikely, if not impossible, to exist when you have sex with your partner.

You’ve agreed with Xolthol on the reasons for why porn is immoral, then further expanded on that reasoning. I pointed out that that reasoning doesn’t lead to porn being immoral and now you’re saying that said reasoning has nothing to do with whether porn is immoral or not?

Clearly, you were saying that the tendency we have for taking porn as a reliable reference point for how sex actually works makes watching porn dangerous and therefore immoral. I simply pointed out that such threats exist in things you wouldn’t categorize as immoral. 
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on October 14th 2019, 1:01 pm
@MacialRecognition wrote:
@Latham2000 wrote:Strawman. 

I wasn't arguing that we must condemn the porn industry for creating unrealistic expectations of sex, I was saying that you shouldn't watch porn and jump to the conclusion that you can easily replicate the stuff that the actors do because porn videos aren't just made by two people simply having sex, it also involves other variables too, which are unlikely, if not impossible, to exist when you have sex with your partner.

You’ve agreed with Xolthol on the reasons for why porn is immoral, then further expanded on that reasoning. I pointed out that that reasoning doesn’t lead to porn being immoral and now you’re saying that said reasoning has nothing to do with whether porn is immoral or not?

Clearly, you were saying that the tendency we have for taking porn as a reliable reference point for how sex actually works makes watching porn dangerous and therefore immoral. I simply pointed out that such threats exist in things you wouldn’t categorize as immoral. 

Ah, you just made me realise that I misread Xolthol’s post 🤦‍�, my stance was that watching porn isn’t a good idea and it’s immoral if you take porn as a reliable source for how sex works, but when I saw Xolthol’s post, it was the closest stance to my stance so I automatically agreed with Xolthol for having a not too dissimilar stance.
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on October 14th 2019, 1:02 pm
^ That facepalm emoji was meant to be male, not female ☹
The Lost
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on October 20th 2019, 6:19 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
@MacialRecognition wrote:
@Latham2000 wrote:@Xolthol is actually right. I disagree with the people who have remarked that I am asking a stupid question.

Porn does indeed pervert sex by misleading people into having ridiculous expectations of what their partner must perform because the porn industry has a lot of money and its objective is to make more money. They have the resources to hire professional actors who get are highly experienced, and they also hire directors plus camera men/women to make everything look great e.g. makeup, lighting, film editing etc. That shit is funded by tons of money, time and experienced actors. It’s unlikely that you’re going to have that when you have sex with your partner because it’s improbably that you’re both professional actors, and the person who is so used to the hardcore standards of sex that porn videos falsely gives, that your hardcore expectations of sex will probably lead to you trying to copy what porn actors do, and that can hurt you and the other person because pornography takes sex to the extreme and statistics show that a great deal of porn videos contain violence.
What you've said here applies to pretty much every field related to media/entertainment. While I do think that pop culture is shallow and braindead in most cases, I wouldn't call it immoral. If porn makes sex dangerous, then Hollywood makes life dangerous.

Regarding the violence stuff, I suspect it's the viewer's demands that shape the porn industry, not the other way around.
I am guessing by "every field" you meant to include killing people. I suppose the difference here is that we don't expect to go out and kill people in our daily lives, only to be disappointed when we find that we aren't able to kill seven people while backflipping from a flaming helicopter, each with a perfect headshot, and that it isn't emotionally gratifying but actually pretty traumatising to cause that level of violence and suffering in another human being. What other fields could you be referring to that set unrealistic expectations? The list is pretty endless, but I think your point pretty much ends up as a tu quoque fallacy where you expect the OP to capitulate to you if he does not denounce every single form of media that sets unrealistic expectations compared to real life as immoral. The problem is, the OP is clearly concerned with the real-world impact porn watching has on the health of human beings. I'm sure if it was proven - and it hasn't been proven - that killing people in game like GTA had a severe negative impact on human health and made them want to engage in harmful/violent behaviours, he would just as quickly denounce these games.

The viewer's demands being hardwired, evolved-over-millions-of-years psychological mechanisms which produce hormone-altering rushes of chemicals in the brain which are hijacked by modern technology and an advanced understanding of human psychology, including the unconscious. Those hardwired psychological mechanisms which are hijacked and advertised to as soon as one is old enough to get online - which for most of us here could be as young as 11 years old - meaning that porn indoctrination begins to spread like wildfire from a young age where the brain is still developing, still incredibly malleable and impressionable and thus can be tangibly altered very severely for years to come thanks to neuroplasticity - "neurons that fire together, wire together". All of this of course happening without any parental controls or supervision, meaning that from the age of 11 onwards, most boys reference point for what sex should be like between two human beings is what they see in porn, and they set this in stone by masturbating to this porn on a near-daily basis for the next decade, further entrenching their neural network into a pattern that associates porn with normal sexual behaviour and desires, all before they are ever presented with their first opportunity to have something even vaguely resembling a sexual relationship with a female. Yes, those "viewer demands."

I think it's quite silly to suggest that porn, particularly hardcore porn, is just something we all consciously choose to enjoy or discard and that it's not particularly harmful one way or another, and that given what I've outlined above we all have 100% agency for our engagement with porn and have not in any way been influenced or moulded by external pressures from a young, delicate age. For some people it clearly does cause a tangible negative effect on their life. OP is on the money.
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on October 21st 2019, 2:44 pm
Quick, better delete my fictitious homoerotic porn from my browsing history before Xolthol finds out or it'll be like the Spanish Inquisition all over again.
MacialRecognition
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on October 21st 2019, 3:52 pm
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You didn't have to type all that to make this simple point that porn can be harmful. Kids have other sources to find out that killing people isn't nice and it wasn't perceived as a positive activity in the first place unlike sex. What you're talking about is caused by the fact that sex is an irrational taboo in our society. This is why kids grow old enough to engage yet remain ignorant about it. We'll continue to have these problems even if we get rid of porn. In other words, the discussion had nothing to do with whether porn is harmful or not. The OP eventually understood this, but I guess I had to dumb it down even further for you to get on board.
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on October 21st 2019, 4:18 pm
I love this idea that porn is like a singular factor that affects people's desensitisation to rape. In 2014: 


More than half (56 per cent) of Britons watch online pornography at least occasionally and 15 per cent do so on a regular basis. However, there is a disparity between the sexes, with 76 per cent of men watching pornography on the internet, compared with just 36 per cent of women.  

So let's take the total as being 71%. In the UK in 2014, there were 64,232 cases of sexual assault, ranging from groping, being forced to perform a sexual act or having a sexual act performed, to rape. So essentially, that leaves 64,935,768 people within the UK who haven't committed a crime. 

Now, let's break this down further. The percentage of 0-15 year olds within the UK in 2014 was 19%. Let's be generous and assume that not one of these minors watched porn before they were 16. That means that 52,780,000 people have watched porn. Of this, only 64,232 cases of sexual assault have been reported. 

That means that 0.12% of the UK population as of 2014 has committed a sexual offence of some kind. To clarify, knife crime offences at this time were recorded at 26,370, meaning that sexual assault offences were just under 2.5x the number of knife crime incidents. I assume that video games, TV shows, films, and any other depiction of a fictitious setting with a knife in it you'd agree is the sole reason for desensitisation towards knife crime, by this logic?
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on October 21st 2019, 5:08 pm
@MacialRecognition wrote:You didn't have to type all that to make this simple point that porn can be harmful. Kids have other sources to find out that killing people isn't nice and it wasn't perceived as a positive activity in the first place unlike sex. What you're talking about is caused by the fact that sex is an irrational taboo in our society. This is why kids grow old enough to engage yet remain ignorant about it. We'll continue to have these problems even if we get rid of porn. In other words, the discussion had nothing to do with whether porn is harmful or not. The OP eventually understood this, but I guess I had to dumb it down even further for you to get on board.
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Blade_of_Dorin
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on October 22nd 2019, 9:41 pm
@Cheth thoughts?
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on October 23rd 2019, 9:36 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Not immoral but I don't see the need to "f*p" or watch p*rn at all.
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on October 23rd 2019, 9:42 am
Cheth wrote:Not immoral but I don't see the need to "f*p" or watch p*rn at all.
Scientifically speaking, masturbation has numerous mental and biological benefits.
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on October 24th 2019, 7:51 am
WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:
Cheth wrote:Not immoral but I don't see the need to "f*p" or watch p*rn at all.
Scientifically speaking, masturbation has numerous mental and biological benefits.

Eh
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on October 24th 2019, 8:20 am
Is it immoral to post in this thread?
CuckedCurry
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on October 24th 2019, 10:21 am
Cheth
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on October 24th 2019, 10:25 am
Cheth wrote:
WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:
Cheth wrote:Not immoral but I don't see the need to "f*p" or watch p*rn at all.
Scientifically speaking, masturbation has numerous mental and biological benefits.

Eh
Surprisingly, it's true. It can relieve stress, improve sexual and bodily health, aid sleep, relieve muscle cramps or tension, and so on.
Nute_Chethray
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on October 24th 2019, 3:53 pm
@CuckedCurry wrote:Cheth

Yeah?
Nute_Chethray
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on October 24th 2019, 3:54 pm
WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:
Cheth wrote:
WalkingInCircles (away) wrote:
Cheth wrote:Not immoral but I don't see the need to "f*p" or watch p*rn at all.
Scientifically speaking, masturbation has numerous mental and biological benefits.

Eh
Surprisingly, it's true. It can relieve stress, improve sexual and bodily health, aid sleep, relieve muscle cramps or tension, and so on.

I know. There are other ways to do that though.
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on November 11th 2019, 2:30 pm
No
The lord of hunger
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on January 3rd 2020, 9:20 pm
no
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EmperorCaedus
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on January 7th 2020, 9:12 pm
No.
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on January 7th 2020, 11:04 pm
Yes. It's as immoral as ketchup with beans, socks with sandals, and agreeing with a MyGod post.
The lord of hunger
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on January 7th 2020, 11:27 pm
BoD (back from 8th) wrote:Yes. It's as immoral as ketchup with beans, socks with sandals, and agreeing with a MyGod post.
Yep Star wars debates are cringy on cv everything else is just fine 


Ketchup with beans is awful
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on January 8th 2020, 12:43 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
I am not one to condemn fapping on its own.

However, pornography, after fapping to it for a whole decade, is something I now consider to be immoral, and I've thought that way for a while but didn't attempt to put that into practice until a month ago. For the past month I've been avoiding it after 10 years of indulging in it multiple times a week, and have only relapsed one of those days.

I'm not going to say the people who watch it are pieces of shit, as I myself did so for 10 years and it's still a struggle for me to avoid it. I'm also not going to necessarily denigrate the character a person for going against a conscience that hasn't spoken up, people with more reductionist views on sex, and my view on this isn't going to sit well with many of those people.

It's what I am choosing to live my life by, because I am deeply morally uncomfortable with using other people in that respect and the attitudes that come to the surface during indulgence in pornography.
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on January 8th 2020, 12:53 am
@LSDMB wrote:I am not one to condemn fapping on its own.

However, pornography, after fapping to it for a whole decade, is something I now consider to be immoral, and I've thought that way for a while but didn't attempt to put that into practice until a month ago. For the past month I've been avoiding it after 10 years of indulging in it multiple times a week, and have only relapsed one of those days.

I'm not going to say the people who watch it are pieces of shit, as I myself did so for 10 years and it's still a struggle for me to avoid it. I'm also not going to necessarily denigrate the character a person for going against a conscience that hasn't spoken up, people with more reductionist views on sex, and my view on this isn't going to sit well with many of those people.

It's what I am choosing to live my life by, because I am deeply morally uncomfortable with using other people in that respect and the attitudes that come to the surface during indulgence in pornography.

pls Pornhub
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