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by Jake
on Fri May 31, 2019 11:06 pm
Search in: Star Wars Versus
Topic: Canon Vader vs Canon Dooku
Replies: 44
Views: 1284

Canon Vader vs Canon Dooku

I am far more impressed with Dooku's standing relative to Yoda, than Vader's shaky, self-assessed growth over Anakin based solely on his superior 'spirit.' The Count is able to contend as a near equal to Yoda for a time whilst tired, before eventually being outclassed and forced to flee;

"Dooku was already tired from his duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker when Yoda arrived."

-- Fact File v3 #71

"Yoda and Dooku were almost equals, with the little Jedi Master having perhaps a slight edge over his former Padawan."

-- Fact File v3 #34

"Dooku is surprised when his old master, Yoda, arrives. After equalling each other with feats of Force power, they ignite their blades and clash in an explosive duel. Yoda's acrobatic style is matched by Dooku's finesse and the fight ends with Yoda electing to save Obi-Wan and Anakin from death rather than defeat his old Padawan."

-- 2017 Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Trading Card #112

Dooku grows even more powerful than this during the war

"Dooku's powers grew noticeably during the Clone Wars."

-- Fact File v3 #78

Up until Revenge of the Sith, where he is more powerful than ever before

"But before they can escape, they come face-to-face with a determined Count Dooku, who is more powerful than ever."

-- 2015 Topps Star Wars Journey to the Force Awakens #12 Rematch with Dooku

Unless I see these kinds of performances from Vader, I'm inclined to back the Count here.

I'm aware of the new 'Galaxy of Adventures' short that depicts Dooku as being half as powerful as Master Yoda, but I feel it far more 'honest' and 'correct' to refer to the highest Canon depiction of the fight; the movie, and all of the secondary sources that reference it, instead of a quick video made for kids that omits important details.
by LadyKulvax
on Sat May 25, 2019 10:29 pm
Search in: Star Wars Versus
Topic: The Kaggath Tournament (2019)
Replies: 7
Views: 500

The Kaggath Tournament (2019)

The Kaggath Tournament was a creation of Beniboybling on the forums of SWTOR. It ran from 2013 to 2015 and saw three in the series. Given the current popularity of this forum, I see it as finally a time for this tournament to return in full force.

What is the Kaggath?

The Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

The number of factions involved will likely vary, but for now at least six spaces need to be filled, with a maximum of 12 possible spaces. This will operate on a first-come, first-serve basis. But do not post your factions below; to avoid an influx of offers and to maintain a level of secrecy I’ve decided to opt for a private message based system. If you are interested, please do post your interest below (this does not guarantee a place), but once your faction is finalised, send it to me via PM. I’ll try to get as many people involved as possible, but note that not everybody is guaranteed a place.

Note that I shall periodically update this thread to anonymously list taken leaders, units and planets.

Once your faction has been submitted, it becomes autonomous – you do not have any direct control over its actions. It operates as any normal Kaggath combatant would, with actions being determined by the nature of its leadership, etc. You are however allowed to debate for your faction until the bitter end. I’m hoping that this will allow those who aren’t able to commit themselves to a large undertaking to participate. As long as you are able to participate in a regular Kaggath you are welcome to join, however you must be available over the majority of the next couple of months. And of course everyone else is welcome to join in the debate even if they have not submitted a faction.

Example faction:

Vader's Vision wrote:Leadership:

Head-of-State: Darth Vader
Second-in-Command: Inquisitor Jerec
Ally: Director Isard
Ally: Cipher Nine

Supplier: Kuat Drive Yards
Intelligence: Inquisitorious

Minor Force: Imperial Shadow Guards
Minor Force: Shadow Stormtrooper
Minor Force: Clone Commandos

Light Vehicle: HK-51 Assassin Droid
Light Vehicle: Dark Trooper Phase III
Heavy Vehicle: AT-AT
Fighter: TIE D/Defender
Bomber: Missile Boat
Elite: Shadow Droid

Light Ship: Modular Taskforce Cruiser
Light Ship: Imperial-Class Frigate
Capital Ship: Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer
Flagship: Megador Star Dreadnought
Capital: Byss
Fortress World: Prakith
Fortress World: Kuat
Organization World: Imperial Center


Don’t feel the need to pick the biggest and the baddest. If the Kaggath is any indicator, smaller, wilier and more evasive opponents can often outmanoeuvre larger foes.

Don’t be afraid to pick units from earlier era’s, standard Kaggath rules will apply so technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time).

Try to make your faction mesh well i.e. pick a supplier that complements your ground and/or naval forces, choose planets strategically and think about how your units will work together.

Be creative!

If you have any further questions please post below.

Ground Rules

#1 The Kaggath is won or lost when the leader of either faction is killed.

#2 No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base or influence. See below for details concerning the extent of influences, etc.

#3 No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent. This includes prominent named individuals and any kind of organisation not in the faction makeup or permitted by the rules.

#4 No surrender, fight to the death!

#5 Apathy is death. Factions are not allowed to hide or wait. They must act.

#6 Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. Capital ships in particular will be evaluated by classification.

#7 Factions are autonomous – players have no control over their faction’s decisions, this is instead determined by the nature of their leadership.

#8 When determining the distances and travel times between planets etc. we will be referring to this table.

#9 Factions retain knowledge of prior battles and are therefore capable of learning from their mistakes, and acting on holes discovered in their armour.

#10 Any units lacking in substantial information are not permitted as faction choices.

#11 All units (unless otherwise prior specified) are regarded as at the height of their power – unless this leads to the removal of important entities associated with either faction.

#104 Combatants have limited knowledge of their opponents. They are only aware of the nature of the enemies Head of State and Second-in-Command, not their allies of whom they do not know exist, finally they are aware of the size and firepower of military forces as well as possessing basic knowledge of their nature, though not prior to the match, only on recognition – the extent of this info will be similar to that of its summary on a Wookiee article.

#105 Anything deemed secret/confidential within the Star Wars universe will remain so in the Kaggath, unless there are explicitly exceptional circumstances that demonstrate otherwise. Such secrets can be internal as well, such as the secrets of one’s allies or forces.

#106 Factions cannot acquire any additional assets, be it planets, resources, individuals etc. outside the specified arena/spheres of influence.

#109 Access to the HoloNet and other communications networks is permitted but for the purposes of communication only – it cannot be used as a source of intelligence.

#112 The scenario is merely a visual representation of the final score and has no bearing on the final outcome. It is just one of many scenarios that could have occurred.



#12 Leadership selections must correspond to their respective positions within the Star Wars universe i.e. Heads of State must have held the position of ‘Head of State’ or equivalent.

#13 An individual who has held the position of Second-in-Command may function as a Head of State, though those who have not may not. Also note that Allies (of which you may have two) cannot have held the position of Head of State or Second-in-Command at any point.

#14 You may have no more than two Force users in your leadership.

#15 The following individuals are not permitted; if a specific incarnation is specified, then an earlier incarnation is permitted:

Darth Sidious, Master Luke Skywalker, Master Yoda, Tenebrae, Darth Caedus, Galen Marek(Including clones), Thrawn, Vaylin, Mace Windu, Revan, Arcann, (Reborn) Krayt, Sarasu Taalon, Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus, the Ones, Lord Nyax, The Outlander, Darth Plagueis, Mother Talzin, Soa,

Entities such as Sel-Makor, UnuThul, etc. are NOT permitted.

#16 When making selections, units will be regarded as at the height of their power. However you do have the option to have your unit regarded at alternate stages of their career.

Head of State:

#17 Head of State must be someone who has been the de-facto leader of a sovereign state or interplanetary organisation at any point – though they cannot be temporary substitutes or puppet leaders.


#18 Second-in-Command must be someone who has been second only to their leader in a sovereign state or interplanetary organisation – though again they may not be temporary or puppets. This sort of position can also be more broadened and internalised, for example an Admiral can be considered second in command to a Supreme Commander or Grand Moff/Admiral.


#19 Allies can be anyone who has never held the title of Head of State or Second-in-Command. They do not have to be affiliated with any particular group or faction.


#20 At the beginning of the Kaggath all parties are loyal to their superiors, dedicated to supporting their faction and winning the battle, for whatever reason. This includes planetary populations i.e. civilians and only civilians, and their respective governments.

#21 Allegiances to the factions from where members of Leadership originated are carried over into the Kaggath, but only if necessary requirements are fulfilled. For example, if Darth Vader were made second in command to a superior Sith Lord, he would be devoutly loyal to this Sith Lord as he was to Sidious. However if his superior is for example a droid, or much lesser Sith Lord, that loyalty will no longer apply – only standard faction leadership.

#22 Abandoning one’s faction is allowed by any parties aside from the Head-of-State. Only however to defect to the opposite team, and only if a reasonable argument can be put forward that suggests that this is possible. Remembering original loyalties are retained, and in some cases can therefore override new loyalties if they are made to resurface.

#23 Droids will have their original programming rewritten, however in cases of droids capable of independent thought it is possible for their original programming to be restored.

Influence and assets:

#24 When in the Kaggath, no members of Leadership have immediate access to personal supplies such as raw materials, technologies, armies, navies etc. they are completely isolated from them.

#25 Members of leadership only retain their influence e.g. contacts, access, knowledge and immediate monetary resources e.g. personal bank accounts. They also have access to personal weapons/items and vehicles such as speeders or starships – though nothing that could be classed as a capital ship or tank/walker etc.

Suppliers and Organisations


#26 You are able to choose between one supplier and one organisation or two suppliers at the expense of an organisation. You must however have at least one supplier and you cannot choose two organisations.

#27 The role of the supplier is to provide armour and/or armament i.e. weapons, vehicles, droids etc. and are not allowed to provide anything else outside of these parameters.

#28 The role of an organisation is to provide anything else such as intelligence, criminal influence, black market assets, technology etc. they are also able to provide armour and armaments but not in large quantities, nor can they be a manufacturer.

#119 Each faction will be prequipped by any basic weapons and supplies their supplier and/or organisation can provide e.g. small arms, armor, fighters/transports, elite tech etc. and altogether anything that would be logical to have already armed. What is allowed under this ruling however will ultimately be up to the discretion of the Arbiter.


#29 The supplier provides access to all and every nationalised industries present within your given territory, see rule #82 concerning nationalised and privatised industry.

#30 The industries under the suppliers control do not have to be in any way affiliated with the supplier, they merely have to be capable of producing their products e.g. if your supplier produces vehicles it must have access to a vehicle factory, or if it produces droids it must have access to a droid factory – or both. Any factories incapable of producing the supplier’s resources cannot produce the supplier’s resources, but can be used for other purposes.

#31 The supplier gives you access to whatever products that they manufacture, which will be available prior to the Kaggath as ‘stock’ in small quantities i.e. single squad or soldiers or vehicles, single capital ship, transport etc. that can later be built on. This applies to all forms of armour and armaments and will be up to the Arbiter’s discretion.

#32 Members of said suppliers e.g. leaders, administrators etc. are also present in the Kaggath but they can only affect it in limited ways. They can be acted upon and influenced e.g. persuaded to defect, killed, reasoned with etc. but cannot directly take control or issue commands over anything other than their own power base e.g. your supply base.

#33 The administrative arm is based on your capital world, they can be moved from this location but only if needed, and they can only properly administrate from this location.


#34 The organisation provides whatever designated base of operations you have given them, though this cannot be under any circumstances a production facility. It also has to be capable of accommodating for their needs e.g. the presence of an information network/black market, but does not have to be directly affiliated with them in any way.

#35 The organisation is capable of operating, and has access to all its assets outside the scope of its base of operations. Its abilities are not limited in anyway – only its abilities to provide your faction with physical units which can only be provided in small quantities.

#36 Members of the organisation operate in the exact same way as members of the supplier, they can be acted upon but can only act upon their power base, this however does not apply to provided assets i.e. agents, mercenaries, droids etc. which operate as units.


#52 Availability for ground and naval forces are mainly determined by the makeup of your leadership. You can only have access to units that at least one member of your leadership (including your organisation/supplier) has been affiliated with at one point. This does not include alliances, unless said ally had units given to them (not just for assistance but control) at some point, and not just on loan.

#115 When selecting ground forces you may have no more than three units from the same organisation, encompassing both infantry and vehicles.

Infantry/Ground Forces:

#53 You can choose one Major Ground Force with one Minor, or three Minor Ground Forces.

#54 Major Ground Forces must consist of some kind of standard infantry unit e.g. Stormtrooper, Sith Trooper, Rebel Trooper, B1/2 Battle Droid etc. Major Ground Forces cannot be comprised of anything considered elite infantry.

NOTE: If, for example, you wanted Clone Troopers from a specific group, such as the 501st, then you merely need represent it as this:

Major Ground Force: Clone Troopers(501st Legion)

#55 The size of chosen Ground Forces will be determined by the military unit they come from. For example Clone/Stormtroopers would be deployed in legions of 10,000 men, a droid army significantly higher, and for a Rebel force significantly lower. Numbers will be decided by the Arbiter, so there are no specific caps or limits to be aware of or avoid.

#56 Minor Ground Forces must be identifiable as elite units, and cannot be standard rank-and-file soldiers. They can consist of a sect, clan militia or other minor organisation, or simply be an elite support unit designed to back up a major force i.e. a Droideka. Units of Force Users are hard-capped at 50. If you take Jedi, the unit will appear as follows:

Jedi Masters: 2
Jedi Knights: 48

NOTE: You are allowed to signify which era the Jedi unit is from using the same format:

Minor Ground Force: Jedi Order(Rise of the Empire)

#57 All ground forces will also come with appropriate transportation for deployment. Though this does not include anything classable as a gunship, and said transportation, be it a vehicle or a starship, cannot be used in combat in anything other than a situation of self-defence.

#108 Any infantry unit you choose comes with all its immediate support units e.g. Stormtroopers provide Scout troopers, Jumptroopers, and will be deployed in the necessary variation e.g. Snowtroopers if in an arctic climate. As well as all command units from the lowest rank to Commander, though they must be directly affiliated.

Specifying a unit of, for example, 501st Legion Clone Troopers, will not give you a known character such as Captain Rex. Such an individual, if wanted, must be chosen in the Leadership.

#116 If you have chosen any mechanised unit as an infantry i.e droids, your supplier must be capable of manufacturing them as well as your vehicles, though not the exact unit, only the class. Note that suppliers capable of acquiring said units through alternative means will also suffice.

Vehicles/Ground Forces:

#58 You may choose a maximum of two light vehicles, and one heavy vehicle. You must have at least one light vehicle, noting that the less vehicles you have the larger quantities they will be deployed in. As such there is no real specification that can be given here regarding what is classed as a light vehicle and what is classed as a heavy vehicle; ultimately it will be the Arbiter’s decision.

#59 Vehicles can include in some cases heavy war droids, but not gunships.

#60 The number of vehicles available will not be specified, and instead will be left vague and open to debate – loosely based on relevant standard vehicle support numbers in lore.

#61 You may only have access to vehicles that your supplier is capable of manufacturing, be it war droids, tanks or walkers etc. though not the exact unit, only the class. A supplier capable of acquiring said units through alternative means will also suffice.

Naval Forces:

#62 You are able to choose a single Flagship, one Heavy Capital Ship model and a maximum of two Light Capital Ship models, as well as a full fighter complement. Light Capital Ships can be no larger than a Heavy Cruiser and Heavy Capital Ships can be no larger than a Star Destroyer or smaller than a Cruiser.

#110 The flagship can be any vessel that has been classed as a “flagship” of some kind, or any model classifiable as a battlecruiser or dreadnaught. You also have the option however to not opt for a flagship, in which case you will receive a boost to your capital ship pool. Furthermore, if your flagship lacks an official name, you may give it your own.

#63 Stealthed vessels are permitted, though you may only choose one stealthed class.

#64 Any vessel with 1,000+ weapons of any kind are not permitted.

#65 Vessels that might be classed as superweapons are not permitted, however if possible the vessel can be stripped of its superweapon and simply function as a standard capital ship.

#66 [omitted – refer to Role and Powers of the Arbiter]

#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters your chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes.

#68 Fighter complements cannot and do not include particular squadrons of any kind e.g. Rogue Squadron, Red Squadron etc. regardless of affiliation.

#69 You cannot have all the vessels and must select a bomber, a fighter and an elite class. Bombers and fighters should be self-explanatory; elite can either be an “elite” starfighter or bomber, the classing of which will be up to the discretion of the Arbiter. It can also constitute a gunship of some kind, but cannot be a transport, which are provided.

#117 Permissible transports cannot be those considered advanced or otherwise heavily armed, and cannot be used in direct combat, only for self-defense. Noting that this does include basic boarding craft - including the burrowing kind - as long as your chosen vessels are capable of fielding them.

#70 Each faction will have access to only one Flagship and a base number of 5 Heavy Capital Ships and 12 Light Capital Ships, these numbers will be adjusted in accordance with size and firepower, and in the case of Light Capital Ships the number of units you have chosen.

#71 Any Heavy Capital Ships classifiable below the class of Destroyer will be multiplied accordingly: Heavy Cruisers x4 [20], Cruisers x6 [30]. Light Capital Ships beneath a Heavy Cruiser will be multiplied accordingly: Cruiser x1.5 [18], Frigates x2 [24], Corvettes x2.5 [30]. Note if you choose two light cruiser classes said light cruisers will have their individual numbers halved.

#72 If you choose not to opt for a Flagship you will receive a 20% increase to your capital ship pool. If you choose to opt for a flagship that is a Star Destroyer class or lower you will receive a 10% increase to your capital ship pool and if you choose to opt for a flagship that is a Dreadnought class you will receive a 20% negation.

#73 All capital ship classifications are in accordance with the Anaxes War College System. Though there may be exceptions which will be decided by the Arbiter’s discretion.

NOTE: One may opt to choose a specific variation of a ship class, or a specific fleet, for example the Open Circle Fleet. You need only signify this as follows:

Heavy Capital Ship: Venator-Class Star Destroyer(Open Circle Fleet)

#74 Neither orbital bombardment or bombing runs are permitted under any circumstances in the course of the Kaggath, any faction caught engaging in such practices will be instantly attacked by the entire might of the Galactic Empire, and their faction will be liquidated to pay reparations.

#117 Neither Heads of State can perish in a space battle, however Second-in-Commands and Allies from both sides can perish - ultimately, who, if any, members of Leadership are killed, will be decided by the Arbiter.

Planets and Territories

#76 Each faction must specify a Capital world, two Fortress Worlds, and an optional Organisation world. In addition to all territory within a certain radius of the chosen capital will be annexed into the faction’s territory and relevant planetary rules will be applied to them. Note that the Fortress and/or Organisation worlds do not have to be within this radius.

#77 Any chosen capital planets located within and including the Mid Rim will have territories within a one-square radius (from the occupied square) annexed, any chosen capital planets located within the Outer Rim and beyond will have territories within a two-square radius annexed – both in reference to the galaxy map from the Essential Atlas.


#78 The capital world acts as the base of operations for your faction Leadership and will be where they will all be initially located and will be the centre of your factions HoloNet hub that governs and process all communications among your factions territories. If this planet is lost you risk losing access to the HoloNet and/or having your factions communications tracked.

#79 The military bases have a two-fold purpose. They can provide a base for a specific unit and therefore a source of the resources they need, and they also acts as an armoury where stockpiled arms and armament are kept. If this planet is lost these resources are lost, and can only be procured elsewhere if the faction has explicit means of doing so.

#80 For those who have chosen an organisation and a supplier, as opposed to two suppliers, they must also specify a planet for their organisation. This will act as a base of operations and means by which they access all their assets. If the organisation world is lost the organisation will be no longer able to access its assets until an alternate means can be established.

Additional Territorial Resources

#81 Any definable factions or prominent individuals affiliated with or based within your territory will not be present in the Kaggath, for the purpose of argument they do not exist.

#82 Any and all nationalised facilities i.e. those controlled by the government, will be under your faction’s control – this includes the government itself. However any privatised industries i.e. those owned by private companies, will not and for the purposes of the Kaggath do not exist. However anything owned by small groups/markets/individuals can be traded with – it is up to the discretion of the Arbiter to decide what falls under this category.

#111 Any and all non-celestial objects existing within the faction’s territory do not automatically fall under their control and are subject to rule #82.

#107 Members of government who might be considered prominent individuals will be permitted if they are not a directly a member of any other organisation.

#83 All strongholds and military bases or anything similar are permitted for use.

#84 General planetary populations i.e. citizens, do exist and can contribute to the faction in terms of manpower, monetary assets, source of information, commerce, expertise etc.

#85 Judicial authorities do exist regardless of how advanced or expansive, but they cannot leave the planet and can only be used in self-defence if the enemy were to attack etc.

#86 Commercial markets including the black market do exist and are in operation, but cannot be used to procure fleets, armies or anything other than small arms in large quantities. The faction will also require the necessary amounts of credits to make purchases.

#87 Any and all territories conquered or otherwise claimed from the enemy have the above assets and granted to the faction, and existing planetary rules apply to them.

Unit Affiliations:

#88 If you choose an organisation they will require an Organisation world where their base of operations will be situated. These planets must be affiliated with them in some form.

#89 Both Major and Minor Ground Forces will also require a planet they are affiliated with i.e. Death Watch Troops would require Concordia, relevant academies for Force Users, etc. Said planets must be specified as a Military Base or Capital.

#90 For units with no particular affiliation to any one planet e.g. Stormtrooper Corps or units who can be demonstrated to have no need for their affiliated planets – i.e. nomadic units – then any chosen Military Base will serve as their base of operations.

#91 All starships and capital ships that make up your naval force must be producible by shipyards present within your chosen territory, or they cannot be replenished.

Roles and Powers of the Arbiter:

#97 The Arbiter must remain neutral in the Kaggath until the final decision is called and therefore cannot support either side and must remain unbiased.

#98 The appointed Arbiter has the ability to alter and override the rules of the Kaggath at any point – however these rules can be changed by future appointed Arbiters, this should only be done as a last resort.

#99 The Arbiter is able to interpret the rules where specified however they cannot bend or break rules where not specified.

#100 Decisions made by the Arbiter are open to dispute and discussion, but ultimately the Arbiter’s decision is final.

#66 In the event of appointed Arbiters acting against the interests of the Kaggath, the Supreme Arbiter will remove those individuals by lethal force, and command of the Kaggath will revert to the Supreme Arbiter until a new command structure is established.

#101 Whenever a rule change is made, the Arbiters must always refer to the Supreme Arbiter for advice first, and if they do not gain approval the rule change cannot be made. This also applies for when the Kaggath is called, except when the SA’s faction is participating.

#102 In the event that the faction of the Supreme Arbiter is participating in the Kaggath the following powers are stripped and following rules apply:

#102.1 The Supreme Arbiter does not have the authority to make changes to the rules or override the decisions of the appointed Arbiter.

#102.2 The Supreme Arbiter does not have the authority to call the Kaggath or dispute the decision of the appointed Arbiter.

#103.3 Only the Supreme Arbiter however has the authority to make changes to the Ground Rules and the layout/structure of future matches, etc.

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