Search found 2 matches for 62
- on August 1st 2019, 2:15 am
- Search in: Star Wars Versus
- Topic: SS - Darth Traya (MasterCilghal) vs Jaina Solo (Xolthol)
- Replies: 114
- Views: 3536
[size=19]Premises[/size][size=15]Before introducing my response I wanted to point out a few things about this debate and this post. In the beginning, I didn’t think I was going to continue this debate but I menaged to solve my personal problems. In the mean time, I wanted to greatly thank @Meatpants for stepping in and creating a marvelous post, which basically contained what I would have said abou Traya. to all those who are reading, Consider this post a “continuation” to MP’s one that will address the parts he didn’t (particularly Jaina and Jaden Korr). Having said that, let’s begin, and I hope you all enjoy my post. [/size]
[size=19]Counter 1: “the combat equal of none”[/size]
@Xolthol wrote:[size=15]What this quote gives us to know ? First of all, we learn that at this time, Jaina is the "combat equal" of anyone [/size]
[*]in the Jedi order.
[size=15]Thank you, I hadn’t noticed it. [/size]
[size=15] Jokes aside, this statement, even in and of itself doesn’t tell us anything and i’ll give you a very simple explanation for why it it simply an hyperbole and cannot be taken literally. “The equal of anyone” refers to all members of the Jedi order, but there is no way Jaina could be the equal of, for example, Kyle Katarn and a padawan at the same time, considering that the two are on completely different levels in skill, it would be an illogical idea. Rather it is a vague way to tell the readers that Jaina is skilled, that’s all. [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:[size=15]Obviously she cannot be at the same time the equal of younglings and the equal of masters... The quote refer to the fact that she is the equal to any top fighting Jedi masters, which include: Kyp Durron, Saba Sebatyne, Kyle Katarn. [/size]
[size=15]Not sure how you can come to this conclusion. It could very well refer to a yougling if we are to take it at face value. Coming to this conclusion requires too much assumption; Katarn, Saba and Kyp aren’t even mentioned. I would agree with you if the quote were something like“among the best in the order”, but this is far too speculative. [/size]
[size=15]if this argument doesn’t convince you, I can assure you the next one will be more than sufficient. [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:But this reasonning is clearly false based on a simple fact. During the time of FotJ Luke Skywalker wasn't in the Jedi Order. He left in exile because he think that he had failed his duty by letting his nephew Jacen Solo becoming the sith lord Darth Caedus. So he isn't in the Order anymore and the quote is still valid.
[size=15]This is objectively wrong. Luke had just resumed his position as the GM in the previous book, ascension. Here is a statement from the essential reader’s companion’s description of the book’s plot that specifically says Luke resumes his title as GM after his return and Coruscant ( which he could do given that Chief Daala had recently been removed from office): [/size]
[size=15]As you correctly pointed out, Jaina’s power pales in comparison to Luke’s and is therefore stupid to conclude the quote applies to him, which it would if you were to take it seriously.[/size]
@Xolthol wrote:I have used "at least" in order to made explain something that must be taking into account: the quote undirectly explain that Jaina is the above most of the members of the jedi order by using the rethoric figure which made her equal to the top jedi of the order.
[size=15]Exactly, You’re proving my own point. ( and contradicting yourself) ,that statement is just a figure of speech, however, as I already proved it’s both far too vague and can simply be dismissed with the Luke skywalker argument I presented. [/size]
[size=15] Honestly, I’m surprised you brought it up considering that it has been debunked so many times in the past.[/size]
[size=24]Counter 2: Jaden Korr[/size][size=15]I found the Jaden scaling you presented to be very interesting ( although I already knew it since I read the books). However, not only are there a few issues with it, but I also fail to see how it is linked to Jaina herself. I’ll divide this in 3 parts: (1) addressing the issues in the Jaden scaling, (2)addressing the fight between Boba and Vader, and (3) negating Jaina’s involvement in this whole scaling. [/size]
[size=15]1-issues in the Jaden scaling [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:Even though they are clone, they can use the Force in pretty impressive way.
[size=15]I don’t get how being a clone is a problem to one’s force connection. Could you please explain this a bit more in depth? [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:[size=15]This feat can be seen as not really impressive but when you look cautionly, it is really insane. First of all, Runner didn't push the speeder all the time, he just give it the first (and only) impulse. Then the speeder wasn't flying at all, he was sliding on the ground so the physical friction must had take a important part of the initial energy. Last but clearly not least the speeder hit a building and because of this the building half collapsed. And this wasn't because of some explosion: Metal shrieked and bent. Glass shattered this was only because of the sheer speed and weight of the speeder. [/size]
[size=15]Basically, what he have done here prove that he can easily with a single push half-destroy a building. And he is far from working at his full power.[/size]
[size=15]Very good feat indeed. However, it doesn’t prove he can destroy a building of even half of it. It was the speeder itself which caused the damage by impacting on the building, not Soldier’s own power. What I don’t understand is why you didn’t mention the hospital feat, which to me seems far more impressive. [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:Basically, you can see that even the combine might of the two clones isn't enough to defeat in a sheer TK competiton Jaden Korr.
[size=15]Jaden did indeed menage to TK stalemate the two clones, however i find it a stretch to argue he was equal, let alone superior to the two clones. In fact, initially, he struggles against Soldier alone:[/size]
[size=15]The clone snarled, held up a hand, palm outward, and met Jaden’s blast with his own. Power pressed against power and Jaden and the clone eyed each other across the landing, jaws fixed, eyes locked, neither gaining the advantage."[/size]
[size=15]―Star Wars Riptide[/size]
[size=15]Later, in the passage you presented, it Jaden makes it clear that, sooner or later, he would have been overwhelmed by the combined power of the two clones, not to mention the incredible amount of effort required to him in order to hold them off: [/size]
[size=15]Jaden held out his left hand—his maimed hand—at the last moment, intercepted the blast, and answered with his own power. The clone’s push caused him to stagger, but he nested himself in the Force and stood his ground against both clones. He held his hands out, the clones’ power pressing at him from right angles. The yellow line of his lightsaber, which he still held in his left had, sizzled before his eyes. The effort squeezed sweat from him, taxed mind and body. He took a step back, another, and found himself pressed against the wall. He could not hold out for long.[/size]
[size=15]Overall, You cannot possibly argue Jaden is superior to the two clones combined. All evidence points to him being unable to hold them off forever. The best he can possibly achieve ( and that has been shown achieving ) against them is a stalemate. I really don’t understand why you came to this conclusion. Other than that I agree with everything that was presented, Jaden is a truly impressive jedi. [/size]
[size=15]2-addressing Fett vs Vader and Jaden’s own skill [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:[size=15]If you want to argue that sheer power isn't everything in a fight, I will agree, but Jaden is far from being a shitty fighter. In fact he is exactly the opposite: he is an awesome fighter. [/size]
[size=15]Indeed he faced and defeat Boba Fett (you know, the guy who fought against Vader and survive)[/size]
[size=15]I acknowledge the Boba fett feat is extremely impressive for Jaden, that I won’t deny. However, I found a lot of issues with the fights you provided, which to me point to a lack of a deep research on your part. the first of the two fights, which comes from Star Wars tales #11, was never canon even before Disney came in, and we can therefore dismiss it completely. [/size]
Basically, everything except those items marked with an “Infinity” logo (i.e. the Star Wars Tales comics) is considered canon.”-Sue Rostoni, Lucas Books and Lucas Licensing Managing Editor, Starwars.com May 30, 2003
[size=16] In the latter example, there are a great deal of circumstances:Vader was looking for a chest which he desperately needed and that Boba was carrying, meaning he wasn’t going all out against him from the start (and that’s basically why Boba lasts so long) . It’s downright stated by Vader himself. Furthermore Vader was fairly overconfident, which further added to the apparent “difficulty” (he still beat him pretty easily every time he menato close the distance) he was experiencing when facing the renowned bounty hunter. His vast superiority over Fett is unquestionable. [/size]
[size=16]This fight also takes place around 3 BBY. Don’t forget that Vader still had to go through a massive growth in regards to his combat skill, in fact he is described as a far more capable opponent in ESB than he was in ANH ( which is later than the events in the comic, I might add)and don’t forget that around this time period he was struggling against not-particularly-impressive jedi like An’ya Kuro. [/size]
[size=16]Here is the statement I was talking about: [/size]
[size=16]Within the armoed forces Vader now holds absolute power over the higher Imperial officers who scorned him earlier in his career. This situation reflects Vader's greater mastery over himself and over the Force in the time since the Battle of Yavin, an improvement that is readily apparent in his lightsaber style during the duel with Luke Skywalker on Bespin. Vader has largely freed himself of pain through the Force in the years since the Battle of Yavin and, by practice with living opponents both willing and unwilling, he has advanced his lightsaber technique. Baron Orman Tagge serves as testament to Vader's technique by this era, precisely blinded in both eyes by Vader's blade in a duel. Vader is thus a far more formidable foe on Bespin than he was against Ben Kenobi on the Death Star.[/size]
[size=16]Ultimately, Jaden’s feat is certainly impressive,but using Vader as an example doesn’t prove anything, since his enormous superiority over Boba while vastly before his prime is pretty much undeniable. Plus there’s the fact that Boba was far older when he faced Jaden. [/size]
[size=16]This leads me into my next point: is Jaden truly a great fighter, as you are suggesting? [/size]
[size=16]Unfortunately the all indications are to the contrary or at least not quite as great as you are suggesting. Jaden’s performance when engaged in a lightsaber duel, at least in his prime, isn’t all that impressive. First, in crosscurrent, he only menages to achieve a stalemate against and injured jedi master Relin, a random Jedi from the old republic:[/size]
[size=15]Khedryn did not hesitate and fired a series of blaster shots. The intruder's lightsaber turned from line to blurred circle as he weaved a defense that deflected each shot into the bulkheads.[/size]
[size=15]"Stay back," Jaden said to Khedryn. He augmented his speed with the Force and rushed forward, feinting high and stabbing low.[/size]
[size=15]Parrying the low stab as he sidestepped, the intruder spun into a reverse strike at Jaden's head. Jaden interposed his blade, met the man's hard eyes through the transparisteel of his helmet, and put a Force-augmented kick into his abdomen.[/size]
[size=15]The impact slammed the intruder into the wall, elicited a wince and a grunt of pain. He doubled over for a moment, favoring his side. Taking advantage of the opening, Jaden unleashed an overhand slash, but the man spun aside and Jaden's blade cut a black groove in the bulkhead.[/size]
[size=15]Jaden backflipped high into the air to avoid the intruder's reverse backslash and landed on the other side of the corridor, three meters away, trapping the intruder between Jaden on the one side and Khedryn on the other.[/size]
[size=15]Jaden could not quite place the man's fighting style. He had seen nothing like it before."[/size]
[size=15]Star Wars: Crosscurrent[/size]
[size=15]Yes, I am aware that Jaden “could not quite place the man’s fighting style”, but it is equally true this lack of knowledge would have gone either ways, especially considering that the NJO developed new fighting styles completely unknown to the old jedi. this jedi has no particular accolades of feats that point to an unusually high level of skill. [/size]
[size=15]Overall, Jaden is far too inconsistent to truly declare him a great fighter, you’ll have to come up with more than an isolated instance. But that’s not so relevant to this debate. Let’s get to the next point. [/size]
[size=15]3- Jaina solo?! [/size]
@Xolthol wrote:As shown in the previous part, Jaina is around Kyp/Kyle/Saba level of fighter. So she is clearly above someone as powerful as Jaden Korr.
[size=15]You have proved it through a wrong interpretation of a quote that was not intended to be taken the way you did and that i already debunked in its entirety. In fact, My reaction after reading this was like: “ ok interesting, but what does Jaina have to do with all this?”. Simply put, You haven’t proven she is on par with Saba or Kyle in any way, and as such this scaling falls apart completely. [/size]
[size=15]But let’s, for a moment, pretend she is on that level. You still haven’t provided any valid proof[/size]
[size=15] that Saba and Kyle (let’s exclude Kyp for obvious reasons) are Jaden’s superiors. I imagine this assumption is based on the fact that the two are masters while Jaden is only a Knight ( because Jaden actually has some feats that exceed both, like the aforementioned Boba Fett fight) . In case this comes up as an argument, I’ll give a simple counter to it: [/size]
[size=15]1-being in a different rank doesn’t necessarily speak to one’s superiority to those ranked beneath said jedi, this applies specifically in the NJO, as seen in monologue from Jacen: [/size]
[size=15]2- Jaden was actually offered the rank of master but he refused due to personal reasons. [/size]
[size=15]Overall, you have provided nothing that scales Jaina above Jaden in any meaningful way, except a weird quote that I’ve already debunked. [/size]
[size=24]Conclusions[/size][size=15]1- in stark contrast to what you provided, Traya is a great fighter and an extremely powerful force user based on her scaling from the three masters on Dantooine ( which MP has already addressed and that I will address further in my response to your next post) [/size]
[size=15]2- Jaina’s only major accolade is nothing more than a wired way to say that she’s skilled in her own right, but does not apply in the way you say. [/size]
[size=15]3- Jaina doesn’t get any scaling from Jaden Korr. [/size]
[size=15]4- all my previous arguments about Jaina’s embarrassing showings and her inability to stand against Traya’s drain still stand. [/size]
[size=15]Good luck @Xolthol with your response. [/size]
- on May 26th 2019, 10:29 am
- Search in: Star Wars Versus
- Topic: The Kaggath Tournament (2019)
- Replies: 7
- Views: 468
What is the Kaggath?
The Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.
The number of factions involved will likely vary, but for now at least six spaces need to be filled, with a maximum of 12 possible spaces. This will operate on a first-come, first-serve basis. But do not post your factions below; to avoid an influx of offers and to maintain a level of secrecy I’ve decided to opt for a private message based system. If you are interested, please do post your interest below (this does not guarantee a place), but once your faction is finalised, send it to me via PM. I’ll try to get as many people involved as possible, but note that not everybody is guaranteed a place.
Note that I shall periodically update this thread to anonymously list taken leaders, units and planets.
Once your faction has been submitted, it becomes autonomous – you do not have any direct control over its actions. It operates as any normal Kaggath combatant would, with actions being determined by the nature of its leadership, etc. You are however allowed to debate for your faction until the bitter end. I’m hoping that this will allow those who aren’t able to commit themselves to a large undertaking to participate. As long as you are able to participate in a regular Kaggath you are welcome to join, however you must be available over the majority of the next couple of months. And of course everyone else is welcome to join in the debate even if they have not submitted a faction.
Vader's Vision wrote:Leadership:
Head-of-State: Darth Vader
Second-in-Command: Inquisitor Jerec
Ally: Director Isard
Ally: Cipher Nine
Supplier: Kuat Drive Yards
Minor Force: Imperial Shadow Guards
Minor Force: Shadow Stormtrooper
Minor Force: Clone Commandos
Light Vehicle: HK-51 Assassin Droid
Light Vehicle: Dark Trooper Phase III
Heavy Vehicle: AT-AT
Fighter: TIE D/Defender
Bomber: Missile Boat
Elite: Shadow Droid
Light Ship: Modular Taskforce Cruiser
Light Ship: Imperial-Class Frigate
Capital Ship: Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer
Flagship: Megador Star Dreadnought
Fortress World: Prakith
Fortress World: Kuat
Organization World: Imperial Center
Don’t feel the need to pick the biggest and the baddest. If the Kaggath is any indicator, smaller, wilier and more evasive opponents can often outmanoeuvre larger foes.
Don’t be afraid to pick units from earlier era’s, standard Kaggath rules will apply so technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time).
Try to make your faction mesh well i.e. pick a supplier that complements your ground and/or naval forces, choose planets strategically and think about how your units will work together.
If you have any further questions please post below.
- #1 The Kaggath is won or lost when the leader of either faction is killed.
#2 No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base or influence. See below for details concerning the extent of influences, etc.
#3 No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent. This includes prominent named individuals and any kind of organisation not in the faction makeup or permitted by the rules.
#4 No surrender, fight to the death!
#5 Apathy is death. Factions are not allowed to hide or wait. They must act.
#6 Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. Capital ships in particular will be evaluated by classification.
#7 Factions are autonomous – players have no control over their faction’s decisions, this is instead determined by the nature of their leadership.
#8 When determining the distances and travel times between planets etc. we will be referring to this table.
#9 Factions retain knowledge of prior battles and are therefore capable of learning from their mistakes, and acting on holes discovered in their armour.
#10 Any units lacking in substantial information are not permitted as faction choices.
#11 All units (unless otherwise prior specified) are regarded as at the height of their power – unless this leads to the removal of important entities associated with either faction.
#104 Combatants have limited knowledge of their opponents. They are only aware of the nature of the enemies Head of State and Second-in-Command, not their allies of whom they do not know exist, finally they are aware of the size and firepower of military forces as well as possessing basic knowledge of their nature, though not prior to the match, only on recognition – the extent of this info will be similar to that of its summary on a Wookiee article.
#105 Anything deemed secret/confidential within the Star Wars universe will remain so in the Kaggath, unless there are explicitly exceptional circumstances that demonstrate otherwise. Such secrets can be internal as well, such as the secrets of one’s allies or forces.
#106 Factions cannot acquire any additional assets, be it planets, resources, individuals etc. outside the specified arena/spheres of influence.
#109 Access to the HoloNet and other communications networks is permitted but for the purposes of communication only – it cannot be used as a source of intelligence.
#112 The scenario is merely a visual representation of the final score and has no bearing on the final outcome. It is just one of many scenarios that could have occurred.
- #12 Leadership selections must correspond to their respective positions within the Star Wars universe i.e. Heads of State must have held the position of ‘Head of State’ or equivalent.
#13 An individual who has held the position of Second-in-Command may function as a Head of State, though those who have not may not. Also note that Allies (of which you may have two) cannot have held the position of Head of State or Second-in-Command at any point.
#14 You may have no more than two Force users in your leadership.
#15 The following individuals are not permitted; if a specific incarnation is specified, then an earlier incarnation is permitted:
Darth Sidious, Master Luke Skywalker, Master Yoda, Tenebrae, Darth Caedus, Galen Marek(Including clones), Thrawn, Vaylin, Mace Windu, Revan, Arcann, (Reborn) Krayt, Sarasu Taalon, Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus, the Ones, Lord Nyax, The Outlander, Darth Plagueis, Mother Talzin, Soa,
Entities such as Sel-Makor, UnuThul, etc. are NOT permitted.
#16 When making selections, units will be regarded as at the height of their power. However you do have the option to have your unit regarded at alternate stages of their career.
Head of State:
- #17 Head of State must be someone who has been the de-facto leader of a sovereign state or interplanetary organisation at any point – though they cannot be temporary substitutes or puppet leaders.
- #18 Second-in-Command must be someone who has been second only to their leader in a sovereign state or interplanetary organisation – though again they may not be temporary or puppets. This sort of position can also be more broadened and internalised, for example an Admiral can be considered second in command to a Supreme Commander or Grand Moff/Admiral.
- #19 Allies can be anyone who has never held the title of Head of State or Second-in-Command. They do not have to be affiliated with any particular group or faction.
- #20 At the beginning of the Kaggath all parties are loyal to their superiors, dedicated to supporting their faction and winning the battle, for whatever reason. This includes planetary populations i.e. civilians and only civilians, and their respective governments.
#21 Allegiances to the factions from where members of Leadership originated are carried over into the Kaggath, but only if necessary requirements are fulfilled. For example, if Darth Vader were made second in command to a superior Sith Lord, he would be devoutly loyal to this Sith Lord as he was to Sidious. However if his superior is for example a droid, or much lesser Sith Lord, that loyalty will no longer apply – only standard faction leadership.
#22 Abandoning one’s faction is allowed by any parties aside from the Head-of-State. Only however to defect to the opposite team, and only if a reasonable argument can be put forward that suggests that this is possible. Remembering original loyalties are retained, and in some cases can therefore override new loyalties if they are made to resurface.
#23 Droids will have their original programming rewritten, however in cases of droids capable of independent thought it is possible for their original programming to be restored.
Influence and assets:
- #24 When in the Kaggath, no members of Leadership have immediate access to personal supplies such as raw materials, technologies, armies, navies etc. they are completely isolated from them.
#25 Members of leadership only retain their influence e.g. contacts, access, knowledge and immediate monetary resources e.g. personal bank accounts. They also have access to personal weapons/items and vehicles such as speeders or starships – though nothing that could be classed as a capital ship or tank/walker etc.
Suppliers and Organisations
- #26 You are able to choose between one supplier and one organisation or two suppliers at the expense of an organisation. You must however have at least one supplier and you cannot choose two organisations.
#27 The role of the supplier is to provide armour and/or armament i.e. weapons, vehicles, droids etc. and are not allowed to provide anything else outside of these parameters.
#28 The role of an organisation is to provide anything else such as intelligence, criminal influence, black market assets, technology etc. they are also able to provide armour and armaments but not in large quantities, nor can they be a manufacturer.
#119 Each faction will be prequipped by any basic weapons and supplies their supplier and/or organisation can provide e.g. small arms, armor, fighters/transports, elite tech etc. and altogether anything that would be logical to have already armed. What is allowed under this ruling however will ultimately be up to the discretion of the Arbiter.
- #29 The supplier provides access to all and every nationalised industries present within your given territory, see rule #82 concerning nationalised and privatised industry.
#30 The industries under the suppliers control do not have to be in any way affiliated with the supplier, they merely have to be capable of producing their products e.g. if your supplier produces vehicles it must have access to a vehicle factory, or if it produces droids it must have access to a droid factory – or both. Any factories incapable of producing the supplier’s resources cannot produce the supplier’s resources, but can be used for other purposes.
#31 The supplier gives you access to whatever products that they manufacture, which will be available prior to the Kaggath as ‘stock’ in small quantities i.e. single squad or soldiers or vehicles, single capital ship, transport etc. that can later be built on. This applies to all forms of armour and armaments and will be up to the Arbiter’s discretion.
#32 Members of said suppliers e.g. leaders, administrators etc. are also present in the Kaggath but they can only affect it in limited ways. They can be acted upon and influenced e.g. persuaded to defect, killed, reasoned with etc. but cannot directly take control or issue commands over anything other than their own power base e.g. your supply base.
#33 The administrative arm is based on your capital world, they can be moved from this location but only if needed, and they can only properly administrate from this location.
- #34 The organisation provides whatever designated base of operations you have given them, though this cannot be under any circumstances a production facility. It also has to be capable of accommodating for their needs e.g. the presence of an information network/black market, but does not have to be directly affiliated with them in any way.
#35 The organisation is capable of operating, and has access to all its assets outside the scope of its base of operations. Its abilities are not limited in anyway – only its abilities to provide your faction with physical units which can only be provided in small quantities.
#36 Members of the organisation operate in the exact same way as members of the supplier, they can be acted upon but can only act upon their power base, this however does not apply to provided assets i.e. agents, mercenaries, droids etc. which operate as units.
- #52 Availability for ground and naval forces are mainly determined by the makeup of your leadership. You can only have access to units that at least one member of your leadership (including your organisation/supplier) has been affiliated with at one point. This does not include alliances, unless said ally had units given to them (not just for assistance but control) at some point, and not just on loan.
#115 When selecting ground forces you may have no more than three units from the same organisation, encompassing both infantry and vehicles.
- #53 You can choose one Major Ground Force with one Minor, or three Minor Ground Forces.
#54 Major Ground Forces must consist of some kind of standard infantry unit e.g. Stormtrooper, Sith Trooper, Rebel Trooper, B1/2 Battle Droid etc. Major Ground Forces cannot be comprised of anything considered elite infantry.
NOTE: If, for example, you wanted Clone Troopers from a specific group, such as the 501st, then you merely need represent it as this:
Major Ground Force: Clone Troopers(501st Legion)
#55 The size of chosen Ground Forces will be determined by the military unit they come from. For example Clone/Stormtroopers would be deployed in legions of 10,000 men, a droid army significantly higher, and for a Rebel force significantly lower. Numbers will be decided by the Arbiter, so there are no specific caps or limits to be aware of or avoid.
#56 Minor Ground Forces must be identifiable as elite units, and cannot be standard rank-and-file soldiers. They can consist of a sect, clan militia or other minor organisation, or simply be an elite support unit designed to back up a major force i.e. a Droideka. Units of Force Users are hard-capped at 50. If you take Jedi, the unit will appear as follows:
Jedi Masters: 2
Jedi Knights: 48
NOTE: You are allowed to signify which era the Jedi unit is from using the same format:
Minor Ground Force: Jedi Order(Rise of the Empire)
#57 All ground forces will also come with appropriate transportation for deployment. Though this does not include anything classable as a gunship, and said transportation, be it a vehicle or a starship, cannot be used in combat in anything other than a situation of self-defence.
#108 Any infantry unit you choose comes with all its immediate support units e.g. Stormtroopers provide Scout troopers, Jumptroopers, and will be deployed in the necessary variation e.g. Snowtroopers if in an arctic climate. As well as all command units from the lowest rank to Commander, though they must be directly affiliated.
Specifying a unit of, for example, 501st Legion Clone Troopers, will not give you a known character such as Captain Rex. Such an individual, if wanted, must be chosen in the Leadership.
#116 If you have chosen any mechanised unit as an infantry i.e droids, your supplier must be capable of manufacturing them as well as your vehicles, though not the exact unit, only the class. Note that suppliers capable of acquiring said units through alternative means will also suffice.
- #58 You may choose a maximum of two light vehicles, and one heavy vehicle. You must have at least one light vehicle, noting that the less vehicles you have the larger quantities they will be deployed in. As such there is no real specification that can be given here regarding what is classed as a light vehicle and what is classed as a heavy vehicle; ultimately it will be the Arbiter’s decision.
#59 Vehicles can include in some cases heavy war droids, but not gunships.
#60 The number of vehicles available will not be specified, and instead will be left vague and open to debate – loosely based on relevant standard vehicle support numbers in lore.
#61 You may only have access to vehicles that your supplier is capable of manufacturing, be it war droids, tanks or walkers etc. though not the exact unit, only the class. A supplier capable of acquiring said units through alternative means will also suffice.
- #62 You are able to choose a single Flagship, one Heavy Capital Ship model and a maximum of two Light Capital Ship models, as well as a full fighter complement. Light Capital Ships can be no larger than a Heavy Cruiser and Heavy Capital Ships can be no larger than a Star Destroyer or smaller than a Cruiser.
#110 The flagship can be any vessel that has been classed as a “flagship” of some kind, or any model classifiable as a battlecruiser or dreadnaught. You also have the option however to not opt for a flagship, in which case you will receive a boost to your capital ship pool. Furthermore, if your flagship lacks an official name, you may give it your own.
#63 Stealthed vessels are permitted, though you may only choose one stealthed class.
#64 Any vessel with 1,000+ weapons of any kind are not permitted.
#65 Vessels that might be classed as superweapons are not permitted, however if possible the vessel can be stripped of its superweapon and simply function as a standard capital ship.
#66 [omitted – refer to Role and Powers of the Arbiter]
#67 Fighter complement choices will be restricted to whatever fighters your chosen ships have deployed at any point during their usage – though do not attempt to find loopholes.
#68 Fighter complements cannot and do not include particular squadrons of any kind e.g. Rogue Squadron, Red Squadron etc. regardless of affiliation.
#69 You cannot have all the vessels and must select a bomber, a fighter and an elite class. Bombers and fighters should be self-explanatory; elite can either be an “elite” starfighter or bomber, the classing of which will be up to the discretion of the Arbiter. It can also constitute a gunship of some kind, but cannot be a transport, which are provided.
#117 Permissible transports cannot be those considered advanced or otherwise heavily armed, and cannot be used in direct combat, only for self-defense. Noting that this does include basic boarding craft - including the burrowing kind - as long as your chosen vessels are capable of fielding them.
#70 Each faction will have access to only one Flagship and a base number of 5 Heavy Capital Ships and 12 Light Capital Ships, these numbers will be adjusted in accordance with size and firepower, and in the case of Light Capital Ships the number of units you have chosen.
#71 Any Heavy Capital Ships classifiable below the class of Destroyer will be multiplied accordingly: Heavy Cruisers x4 , Cruisers x6 . Light Capital Ships beneath a Heavy Cruiser will be multiplied accordingly: Cruiser x1.5 , Frigates x2 , Corvettes x2.5 . Note if you choose two light cruiser classes said light cruisers will have their individual numbers halved.
#72 If you choose not to opt for a Flagship you will receive a 20% increase to your capital ship pool. If you choose to opt for a flagship that is a Star Destroyer class or lower you will receive a 10% increase to your capital ship pool and if you choose to opt for a flagship that is a Dreadnought class you will receive a 20% negation.
#73 All capital ship classifications are in accordance with the Anaxes War College System. Though there may be exceptions which will be decided by the Arbiter’s discretion.
NOTE: One may opt to choose a specific variation of a ship class, or a specific fleet, for example the Open Circle Fleet. You need only signify this as follows:
Heavy Capital Ship: Venator-Class Star Destroyer(Open Circle Fleet)
#74 Neither orbital bombardment or bombing runs are permitted under any circumstances in the course of the Kaggath, any faction caught engaging in such practices will be instantly attacked by the entire might of the Galactic Empire, and their faction will be liquidated to pay reparations.
#117 Neither Heads of State can perish in a space battle, however Second-in-Commands and Allies from both sides can perish - ultimately, who, if any, members of Leadership are killed, will be decided by the Arbiter.
Planets and Territories
- #76 Each faction must specify a Capital world, two Fortress Worlds, and an optional Organisation world. In addition to all territory within a certain radius of the chosen capital will be annexed into the faction’s territory and relevant planetary rules will be applied to them. Note that the Fortress and/or Organisation worlds do not have to be within this radius.
#77 Any chosen capital planets located within and including the Mid Rim will have territories within a one-square radius (from the occupied square) annexed, any chosen capital planets located within the Outer Rim and beyond will have territories within a two-square radius annexed – both in reference to the galaxy map from the Essential Atlas.
#78 The capital world acts as the base of operations for your faction Leadership and will be where they will all be initially located and will be the centre of your factions HoloNet hub that governs and process all communications among your factions territories. If this planet is lost you risk losing access to the HoloNet and/or having your factions communications tracked.
#79 The military bases have a two-fold purpose. They can provide a base for a specific unit and therefore a source of the resources they need, and they also acts as an armoury where stockpiled arms and armament are kept. If this planet is lost these resources are lost, and can only be procured elsewhere if the faction has explicit means of doing so.
#80 For those who have chosen an organisation and a supplier, as opposed to two suppliers, they must also specify a planet for their organisation. This will act as a base of operations and means by which they access all their assets. If the organisation world is lost the organisation will be no longer able to access its assets until an alternate means can be established.
Additional Territorial Resources
- #81 Any definable factions or prominent individuals affiliated with or based within your territory will not be present in the Kaggath, for the purpose of argument they do not exist.
#82 Any and all nationalised facilities i.e. those controlled by the government, will be under your faction’s control – this includes the government itself. However any privatised industries i.e. those owned by private companies, will not and for the purposes of the Kaggath do not exist. However anything owned by small groups/markets/individuals can be traded with – it is up to the discretion of the Arbiter to decide what falls under this category.
#111 Any and all non-celestial objects existing within the faction’s territory do not automatically fall under their control and are subject to rule #82.
#107 Members of government who might be considered prominent individuals will be permitted if they are not a directly a member of any other organisation.
#83 All strongholds and military bases or anything similar are permitted for use.
#84 General planetary populations i.e. citizens, do exist and can contribute to the faction in terms of manpower, monetary assets, source of information, commerce, expertise etc.
#85 Judicial authorities do exist regardless of how advanced or expansive, but they cannot leave the planet and can only be used in self-defence if the enemy were to attack etc.
#86 Commercial markets including the black market do exist and are in operation, but cannot be used to procure fleets, armies or anything other than small arms in large quantities. The faction will also require the necessary amounts of credits to make purchases.
#87 Any and all territories conquered or otherwise claimed from the enemy have the above assets and granted to the faction, and existing planetary rules apply to them.
- #88 If you choose an organisation they will require an Organisation world where their base of operations will be situated. These planets must be affiliated with them in some form.
#89 Both Major and Minor Ground Forces will also require a planet they are affiliated with i.e. Death Watch Troops would require Concordia, relevant academies for Force Users, etc. Said planets must be specified as a Military Base or Capital.
#90 For units with no particular affiliation to any one planet e.g. Stormtrooper Corps or units who can be demonstrated to have no need for their affiliated planets – i.e. nomadic units – then any chosen Military Base will serve as their base of operations.
#91 All starships and capital ships that make up your naval force must be producible by shipyards present within your chosen territory, or they cannot be replenished.
Roles and Powers of the Arbiter:
- #97 The Arbiter must remain neutral in the Kaggath until the final decision is called and therefore cannot support either side and must remain unbiased.
#98 The appointed Arbiter has the ability to alter and override the rules of the Kaggath at any point – however these rules can be changed by future appointed Arbiters, this should only be done as a last resort.
#99 The Arbiter is able to interpret the rules where specified however they cannot bend or break rules where not specified.
#100 Decisions made by the Arbiter are open to dispute and discussion, but ultimately the Arbiter’s decision is final.
#66 In the event of appointed Arbiters acting against the interests of the Kaggath, the Supreme Arbiter will remove those individuals by lethal force, and command of the Kaggath will revert to the Supreme Arbiter until a new command structure is established.
#101 Whenever a rule change is made, the Arbiters must always refer to the Supreme Arbiter for advice first, and if they do not gain approval the rule change cannot be made. This also applies for when the Kaggath is called, except when the SA’s faction is participating.
#102 In the event that the faction of the Supreme Arbiter is participating in the Kaggath the following powers are stripped and following rules apply:
#102.1 The Supreme Arbiter does not have the authority to make changes to the rules or override the decisions of the appointed Arbiter.
#102.2 The Supreme Arbiter does not have the authority to call the Kaggath or dispute the decision of the appointed Arbiter.
#103.3 Only the Supreme Arbiter however has the authority to make changes to the Ground Rules and the layout/structure of future matches, etc.