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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 12:52 pm
Round 1 - DoE Bane

Round 2 - RoT Orbalisk Bane

Prime Jaina
TheGlory
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 12:54 pm
Bane, tbh. Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane 2266747095
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 12:56 pm
Jaina both lol
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 12:59 pm
Jaina wins against DOE Bane after a good fight, but unless she uses her force lighting loses against ROT Bane.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:02 pm
@TheGlory wrote:Bane, tbh. Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane 2266747095
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:04 pm
Reasons for why either character wins?
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:17 pm
The Divine Source wrote:Reasons for why either character wins?

Jaina has done this:

Jaina felt Jacen then; he was throttling Mirta to let Tahiri escape into the docking tube above the hatch. Jaina put every scrap of strength she had into breaking Jacen's invisible Force choke hold on Mirta. She saw it like a black chain and visualized the links flying apart just as Carid shot past her and scrambled up the ladder followed by Vevut.
Legacy of the Force: Revelation
Although there were circumstances, breaking Caedus’s force choke is pretty impressive, and this was done before her prime.
FOTJ Jaina has various interesting feats, like beating several lost tribe Sith aided by a very powerful dark side nexus in Ascension and being called “the combat equal of any in the order”. I just think it’s more impressive than anything Bane has done.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:27 pm
Well I mean, a distracted and injured Caedus ragdolled Jaina in invincible, and she had to use her full strength into breaking Jacen's force choke, and it's not like he was using his full power to choke a non-force sensitive, so trying to compare Jaina in the Force to Caedus doesn't really make any sense.

As far as the dueling stuff, beating fodder isn't exactly beneath Bane's paygrade even as of POD, and Jaina is obviously not the combat equal of Luke Skywalker. That accolade reminds me somewhat of Anoon Bondara's accolade of having "unparalleled" dueling ability when he obviously didn't.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:31 pm
@LSDMB wrote:Well I mean, a distracted and injured Caedus ragdolled Jaina in invincible, and she had to use her full strength into breaking Jacen's force choke, and it's not like he was using his full power to choke a non-force sensitive, so trying to compare Jaina in the Force to Caedus doesn't really make any sense.

As far as the dueling stuff, beating fodder isn't exactly beneath Bane's paygrade even as of POD, and Jaina is obviously not the combat equal of Luke Skywalker. That accolade reminds me somewhat of Anoon Bondara's accolade of having "unparalleled" dueling ability when he obviously didn't.

But Jaina is above Plagueis according to Evannova ;)
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:37 pm
Yeah, not sure why it’s so clear cut that Jaina wins this. Bane even as of PoD is capable of shrugging off and easily crushing Lord Kaan, who could influence the entire Dark Brotherhood with a nigh-irresistible call to gather at Ruusan, forcibly pull the minds of dozens/hundreds of Sith Lords to disengage from Bane’s lightning ritual, and resist the pull of Thought Bomb as a spirit while in its direct vicinity (this bomb being a far more potent ritual than the planet-killing storm unleashed earlier, consuming a thousand or more Jedi and Sith). Bane gains an absurd boost in power after donning a mere pair of orbalisks at the start of RoT, to the point where he arguably experienced a greater surge of power than that of the lightning ritual from PoD. I won’t speak to the definitiveness of this notion, but suffice it to say, even Bane with two orbalisks has a huge line of scaling beyond the impressiveness of anything mentioned for Jaina here. This isn’t even mentioning the even more massive gap between Bane with two orbalisks and Bane with a full set of orbalisk armor, or the gap between Orbalisk Bane and DoE Bane.

So far, from what I’ve seen, Bane stomps. Bane with 2 orbalisks >> PoD Bane >> Kaan ~ tanking Thought Bomb, TP’ing hundreds/thousands of Sith Lords on multiple occasions
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:40 pm
Yeah but Jaina is the combat equal of anyone in the Jedi Order
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:41 pm
@ILS wrote:Yeah but Jaina is the combat equal of anyone in the Jedi Order

Cease this! Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane 2265358366
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:47 pm
@ILS wrote:Yeah but Jaina is the combat equal of anyone in the Jedi Order
Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane 3948126588
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 1:57 pm
I think DoE Bane vs Caedus is more in order Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane 4037459623
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 2:01 pm
Those sabers she faced in ascension were not fodder, they were among the best, of I recall correctly. Furthermore, the book notes that that the dark side nexus was more powerful than Ziost , which both helped the Sith and hindered the two jedi’s Reflexes, to the point where Luke himself was being challenged by them. It is quite impressive. Furthermore Jaina has fought evenly with Kyp Durron in Dark Journey.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 2:12 pm
@mastercilghal wrote:Furthermore Jaina has fought evenly with Kyp Durron in Dark Journey.

Would that really be indicative of actual parity, though?
1. Both were unlikely to actually harm each other, it was more akin to a spar than a actual duel.
2. Durron made it clear that he had no intention of fighting Jaina, only doing so when she goaded him with a bet. Moreover, he fully intended to conscript her as his apprentice which means he would have been less likely to hurt her, whereas Jaina had more of a stake in the duel as she assumed Durron wanted to put an end to the mission she desperately wanted launched.
3. Most of Kyp's saber hype comes later anyway.


Last edited by TheGlory on April 25th 2019, 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 2:16 pm
@mastercilghal wrote: Furthermore, the book notes that that the dark side nexus was more powerful than Ziost , which both helped the Sith and hindered the two jedi’s Reflexes, to the point where Luke himself was being challenged by them. It is quite impressive.

No, he wasn't lmao.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 2:33 pm
ɢᴏᴀᴛ wrote:
@mastercilghal wrote: Furthermore, the book notes that that the dark side nexus was more powerful than Ziost , which both helped the Sith and hindered the two jedi’s Reflexes, to the point where Luke himself was being challenged by them. It is quite impressive.

No, he wasn't lmao.
I re-read the scene, and yeah, I was wrong there. But it’s still kinda impressive for Jaina
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 2:34 pm
I think cilghal is fighting a losing battle here honestly, you can only do so much with the material available. I'll make a more suitable thread for Jaina.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 3:01 pm
@ILS wrote:I think cilghal is fighting a losing battle here honestly, you can only do so much with the material available. I'll make a more suitable thread for Jaina.
To Make a case for Jaina is extremely difficult, because her feats mostly include cutting down fodder or are circumstantial.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 3:17 pm
Jaina probably loses, but she'd best PoD Bane.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 25th 2019, 4:54 pm
Bane to be honest.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 26th 2019, 10:59 pm
The Divine Source wrote:Yeah, not sure why it’s so clear cut that Jaina wins this. Bane even as of PoD is capable of shrugging off and easily crushing Lord Kaan, who could influence the entire Dark Brotherhood with a nigh-irresistible call to gather at Ruusan, forcibly pull the minds of dozens/hundreds of Sith Lords to disengage from Bane’s lightning ritual, and resist the pull of Thought Bomb as a spirit while in its direct vicinity (this bomb being a far more potent ritual than the planet-killing storm unleashed earlier, consuming a thousand or more Jedi and Sith). Bane gains an absurd boost in power after donning a mere pair of orbalisks at the start of RoT, to the point where he arguably experienced a greater surge of power than that of the lightning ritual from PoD. I won’t speak to the definitiveness of this notion, but suffice it to say, even Bane with two orbalisks has a huge line of scaling beyond the impressiveness of anything mentioned for Jaina here. This isn’t even mentioning the even more massive gap between Bane with two orbalisks and Bane with a full set of orbalisk armor, or the gap between Orbalisk Bane and DoE Bane.

So far, from what I’ve seen, Bane stomps. Bane with 2 orbalisks >> PoD Bane >> Kaan ~ tanking Thought Bomb, TP’ing hundreds/thousands of Sith Lords on multiple occasions

Based on what is Bane capable of "crushing" Kaan?

Isn't it agreed that Kaan is the most powerful Brotherhood member? And did Kas'im not resist Bane's tk, that too twice? Wasn't Bane too labelled as much too strong for Kas'im or something?

Maybe Karpyshyn's idea of being much more powerful is different from yours?

As to the greatest surge of power, the statement also says that he released that power. If that were the case that it is supposed to scale over the firestorm ritual, don't you think Dxun would you know, maybe be vastly damaged as a result?

Wouldn't the frenzy filled force release of Bane after he had more than a 100 Orbalisks obliterate Ambria? Or atleast cause an earthquake other than simply destroying a campsite in a state of force rage not even sensed by his disciple?

Not to rain on the parade but there are too many things that are ambiguous or wrong here. No comments on the actual battle.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 26th 2019, 11:35 pm
@LSDMB Please explain. Not strictly arguing, just questioning.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

on April 26th 2019, 11:52 pm
@LOTL wrote:

Based on what is Bane capable of "crushing" Kaan?

Isn't it agreed that Kaan is the most powerful Brotherhood member? And did Kas'im not resist Bane's tk, that too twice? Wasn't Bane too labelled as much too strong for Kas'im or something?

Maybe Karpyshyn's idea of being much more powerful is different from yours?
So a few things

1. Bane was noted to have been exhausted by his duel with Kas'im, and both instances of his TK against Kas'im were right before the end of that duel or right after that duel so he was somewhat beneath full capacity. Second, Bane's TK wasn't entirely focused on Kas'im, so Kas'im only blocked a portion of the power Bane unleashed.

2. It was noted on Ambria (between Lehon and Ruusan) that Bane was in a constant process of increasing in power at the time, don't have the quote on hand, but the evidence is there that he increased in power by an ambiguous amount between his duel with Kas'im on Lehon and his confrontation with Kaan on Ruusan, so to use his performance against Kas'im and scale Kaan to Kas'im to argue an upper limit for Bane against Kaan doesn't quite pan out.

3. Fact file scales Bane above Kaan, and Kaan by his own admission wouldn't stand a chance against Bane in a force fight.

@LOTL wrote:As to the greatest surge of power, the statement also says that he released that power. If that were the case that it is supposed to scale over the firestorm ritual, don't you think Dxun would you know, maybe be vastly damaged as a result?

Wouldn't the frenzy filled force release of Bane after he had more than a 100 Orbalisks obliterate Ambria? Or atleast cause an earthquake other than simply destroying a campsite in a state of force rage not even sensed by his disciple?
I think we all tacitly accept a sort of Star Wars/Dragon Ball type logic when it comes to the scale of force abilities and how they are applied. So take Maul for example and the telekinetic feats Maul has and the scale that those feats are on, or the feats of someone like Sidious. Now if Maul were to dodge a force push from Sidious that would otherwise overwhelm his defenses, it would be kind of weird to expect that force push to carry on and tear a mile long canyon in the environment behind Maul.

Or another example, we know the scale of powers of people like Vitiate or Revan, yet if Vitiate fires a bolt of force lightning meant to overwhelm someone of Revan's caliber, Revan dodges the bolt of lightning, and we don't hear about it causing this massive ass explosion that destroys half of the dark temple.

It's clear that for whatever reason in fictional battles that there's something of a weird rule when it comes to potency and environmental impact based on the purpose an attack or exertion of power is meant for.

Like if you take at 100% face value the quote that suggests Yoda had some level of difficulty reflecting Dooku's lightning, when Dooku deflects that away from itself it only causes a minor explosion in the room, clearly not something of enough power to give someone like Yoda any trouble, or even someone like massively preprime Kyle Katarn based on a feat against Jerec, yet obviously the lightning contains more power of a certain regard than the damage it causes to the environment would have.

If you took the environmental destructiveness of Dooku's lightning in that instance, you would come to the conclusion that Dooku for whatever reason attempted a really pitiful attack against Yoda that virtually anyone could deflect.

By this logic any time seriously high tier combatants fight seriously, we would expect the destruction of vast vast swaths of the area they are fighting in. For whatever reason, powers that are unleashed tend not to overstep the bounds of the purpose they are meant for, and this seems to be a consistent rule across various fictional universes ranging from comics to something like Dragonball.
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Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane Empty Re: Jaina Solo vs Darth Bane

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