Suspect Insight Forums

Go down
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 15:53
Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  02d0a510

Vs 
Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  87633510
- Luke as of “Luke Skywalker and the shadows of mindor” 
-Windu at the beginning of “shatterpoint” 
-both have faced Kar Vastor, but what differs in their performances/circumstances?
Isv
Isv

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 16:05
Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  3344068304
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 17:08
I'd hardly consider Luke's confrontation of Kar Vastor an actual fight. It's not something that could be recreated on neutral ground under ordinary circumstances. Luke basically just let Vastor bite him, and used the meltmassif in his body at the time to ward the brute off. We have no clue how Luke would handle Kar Vastor under normal conditions, much less how he'd deal with him on Haruun Kal, the way Mace did. Most importantly, we don't know how much of Shadows of Mindor is actually true, since the end of the novel implies it's mostly embellished by Geptun.

Meanwhile, Mace lost a straight h2h fight against Vastor, acknowledged that had he fought saber v vibroshield, he would have died to Vastor, but then easily dropped Vastor with the Force at the end of the book. All of this happened on Haruun Kal, where Vastor was hugely amped by his connection to the forest, letting Vastor rival Anakin and Yoda in raw power. 

With all this being said, there's a lot more to compare here than just their performance against Vastor.

Physically, they're both pretty impressive combatants. Mace is probably the faster of the two, while Luke is likely stronger. Both have pretty solid stamina and durability, so overall I'd say the two are near-equal.

In terms of lightsaber skill, Mace is hands-down superior. Mace knows all 7 forms, and even perfected his own style in Vaapad. Luke, meanwhile, has a solid understanding of the basics, likely knows some Form III and Form IV, and instinctively began using Form V after facing Vader on Bespin. Luke is unquestionably naturally talented, and his learning curve was great enough for him to equal Vader in Form V by RotJ, but Mace just has a far more vast understanding of lightsaber combat. Luke could probably hold his own against Mace for a time, but he's not winning a pure saber duel.

For Force power, this is also Mace's victory. Luke is extremely powerful, no question. His strength in the Force is supposed to rival Anakin's, according to Vader in Shadows of the Empire. But Luke just doesn't combatively use the Force at this point in time. I don't believe Legends Luke was depicted using a Force Push until Dark Empire. He doesn't use it offensively whatsoever in any of the Marvel comics at the time, in Shadows of Mindor, in Courtship of Princess Leia, or anywhere in the Thrawn Trilogy. Meanwhile, Mace is one of the greatest combative Force users of his era. No contest.

Mace is better than Luke pretty much across the board, at least until Dark Empire.
The Apprentice
The Apprentice
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 18:40
Nothing can be gathered from Luke's performance against Vastor and Mace's was incredibly circumstantial. Judging by other feats idk who wins as I'm not overly familiar with either character.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 18:46
NotAA3 wrote:Nothing can be gathered from Luke's performance against Vastor and Mace's was incredibly circumstantial. Judging by other feats idk who wins as I'm not overly familiar with either character.

Mace's wasn't exactly circumstantial as far as I remember (been a year or so since I read the novel). He overpowered Vastor's Force grip and landed hits on him repeatedly while tired, injured and trying to resist the planet's darkness. Kar largely won due to his connection to the forest and by outlasting Mace. 

OT: Mace in a good fight.
The Apprentice
The Apprentice
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 18:54
@BreakofDawn

Kar largely won due to his connection to the forest and by outlasting Mace.

The circumstances I was referencing were Vastor's specific connection to the jungle of Haruun, the DS nexus and the fact that he outlasts Mace due to having practically unlimited power to draw upon lol.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 21:02
NotAA3 wrote:@BreakofDawn

Kar largely won due to his connection to the forest and by outlasting Mace.

The circumstances I was referencing were Vastor's specific connection to the jungle of Haruun, the DS nexus and the fact that he outlasts Mace due to having practically unlimited power to draw upon lol.
Ah fair enough, lol. Honestly, it's impressive Mace lasted as long as he did considering that and his exhaustion/injuries.
darthbane77
darthbane77

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 21:22
Windu slaps.
Isv
Isv

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Mon 12 Aug 2019 - 23:15
Luke lol glares. Mace dies.

Rotj Luke ofc
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Tue 13 Aug 2019 - 3:36
Come back to us when RotJ Luke isn’t CW K’kruhk Tier

Windu dominates
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Tue 13 Aug 2019 - 12:04
Mace wrecks.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level One
Level One

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 9:41
Mace maybe?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 10:09
Mace smacks based on his fight against Kar despite being heavily injured and exhausted.
Ziggy
Ziggy

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 15:14
Is the comparison grounds to hold Mace, as of Shatterpoint, above ROTJ Vader?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 15:15
@Ziggy wrote:Is the comparison grounds to hold Mace, as of Shatterpoint, above ROTJ Vader?
What do you mean?
Ziggy
Ziggy

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 15:17
That this Luke would be above that Luke in ROTJ, where he beat the half-man/machine?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 15:21
@Ziggy wrote:That this Luke would be above that Luke in ROTJ, where he beat the half-man/machine?
In actual H2H and lightsaber skill, yes. Mace held the upper hand against a man who'd basically fought since birth and had decades to integrate himself with Haruun Kal's power and simultaneously amp and heal himself. Even then, a weakened Mace could break his Force grip and dominate in skill.
Ziggy
Ziggy

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 15:26
@Ziggy wrote:Is the comparison grounds to hold Mace, as of Shatterpoint, above ROTJ Vader?

Full circle to my original Q?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 15:55
@Ziggy wrote:
@Ziggy wrote:Is the comparison grounds to hold Mace, as of Shatterpoint, above ROTJ Vader?

Full circle to my original Q?
Sorry, thought I'd answered that. Not sure if he'd be > Vader in power (I doubt it, actually, especially because of his mental hindrance and physical injuries/exhaustion), but in H2H and lightsaber skill he'd be much more skilled. I'd be tempted to peg him as an equal of Dooku at this point.
Ziggy
Ziggy

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 16:26
Concerning Mace Windu at the begging of the book, who'd not yet ventured on to the Jungle world and was merely languishing within Coruscant temple grounds? 

Should that version of Mace should be well above Vader in his actuality? 

 I'd be tempted to peg him as an equal of Dooku at this point.
 


Yoda might disagree with that.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Two
Level Two

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

on Fri 15 Nov 2019 - 16:35
Concerning Mace Windu at the begging of the book, who'd not yet ventured on to the Jungle world and was merely languishing within Coruscant temple grounds? 

Should that version of Mace should be well above Vader in his actuality? 

I honestly don't know, to be honest. I don't think Mace approached Sidious/Yoda tier until the last few months or so before his fight with Palpatine, in which time the darkness and thus his power in the Force grew exponentially. I'd still put him as > ROTJ Vader in pure skill considering his parity with Yoda and Dooku (at least in sparring) but below him in pure power.

Stop asking me to put two of my favourite characters against each other, damnit!  Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  815462187

Yoda might disagree with that.
In universe, Yoda was largely talking about skill and probably didn't detect Mace's growth in the same way (the increase in darkness within him). He also hadn't seen Mace fight for real or without holding back for a long time, and the only time he fully cut loose and fought with everything he had was against Sidious. He also didn't exactly have many opportunities to apply what he'd experienced before his fateful fight with Sidious. Out of universe, DR is before Lucas established Mace as a Yoda/Sheev tier, and even then it's still pretty consistent with him being "second only to Yoda" and thus potentially comparable to Dooku.
Sponsored content

Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)  Empty Re: Luke Skywalker (SOM) Mace Windu ( shatterpoint)

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum