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DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on April 24th 2019, 2:46 pm
Sidious blinks.
dark-sith123
dark-sith123

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on April 24th 2019, 2:48 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:
@dark-sith123 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:@dark-sith123

As I stated in the other thread though there is massive context to your points. Firstly, as we previously established Vader is ~ Luke Skywalker at the time of ROTJ which gives him full access to Luke's feats. A distracted, exhausted, and defenseless luke was able to parry the lightning of Sidious who was in a superior iteration to ROTS. Why is this important? Well, when ROTS sidious decided to use his torture lightning against Maul, the Zabrak had no defense. He was on the floor screaming for mercy, in contrast a distracted Luke was able to parry (albeit for only a moment) ROTJ sidious's "toying" lightning. However, this little rant of mine, might be slightly off topic, as I completely agree DE sheev wins here Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 228124001

Luke was not distracted, and his exhaustion is, as of now, unsubstantiated.

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Screen11

As for luke being exhausted, if you know how Dark Rage works, you know that a force user gets a temporary boost to their power, and then that boost dies away leaving them exhausted most of the time.

Furthermore, Luke only parried Sidious' assault momentarily. He was overwhelmed in a few seconds. Palpatine wasn't using his full power either- that lightning assault was clearly designed to torture Luke, not fry him on the spot.

He was caught off guard... and that same lightning dropped Maul to his knees. If you are going to argue Sidious went all out against Maul you can try that, but it won't work he could have oneshot him if he wanted to.

As for Maul, he had already been disarmed, ragdolled and subdued. There was no way in which he could have mounted any possible defense. Luke, on the other hand, was standing up and ready to face Sidious' wrath after turning him down. The comparison is nonsensical.

Awfully similar to being distracted, disarmed, and possibly exhausted. Yes, he stands up to face sheev in the movie, but he also has no idea what to expect from the emperor. The comic also provides context that he was indeed distracted as I feel I proved Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 228124001

Oh, okay. The novel also states he was surprised but goes into further detail, explaining that Luke managed to get his act together in time to mount a defense against the incoming attack. Luke having been caught flat footed does not help, sure, but he managed to react nonetheless- it's not as if he's looking the other way or doing something else only to get suddenly blindsided. Luke couldn't deflect a fraction of Palpatine's power for a protracted period of time because he's vastly inferior.

Skywalker's exhaustion still needs to be proven more conclusively- he had ample time to draw breath between bettering Vader and being attacked by Sidious. Right now, it just comes across as a dubious attempt to oversell the feat.

The two situations are not "awfully similar". Luke was directly facing Sidious and more probably than not prepared for some form of retaliation on the Emperor's behalf, even if he did not see a barrage of Force lightning coming. Maul had been disarmed, telekinetically subdued and floored by Sidious prior to the lightning attack. He obviously couldn't mount a suitable defense in that scenario- I'm not stating that Luke wasn't caught flat footed or was in a perfect position to defend against Palpatine's attack, but don't even attempt to compare the two situations.

Anyway, this isn't that relevant. A fraction of a truly distracted Sidious' unfocused lightning attack was enough to destroy prime Vader- the incarnation of the Emperor being discussed in this thread is more powerful than his Return of the Jedi one that killed Vader. If a mere fraction of RotJ Sidious' power is enough to kill Vader within minutes, try to picture what DE Sidious' full, unrestricted, unlimited power would do to him. (Hint: it would kill him instantly)
copper.warrioranalytics
copper.warrioranalytics

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty sidious

on July 6th 2019, 6:12 am
very tough, but i'd go with palpatine/sidious. his powers are unlimited as is his intellect. the only one to come close is vader, then dooku.. the rest are fodder. all of them cannot hope to get through his force wall and have any opening for more than 3 seconds. he beats every one of his apprentices and offshoots. i'm sorry to any fan of his apprentices or apprentices of his apprentices.. but sidious is the devil incarnate, the most powerful sith lord to ever be, losing to him is no shame.
The Apprentice
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on July 6th 2019, 6:27 am
@copper.warrioranalytics

In what way are Vader and Dooku remotely close to him lol?

copper.warrioranalytics
copper.warrioranalytics

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on July 6th 2019, 6:30 am
in intellect, sorry i should have made that clearer @krayt dies
The Apprentice
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on July 6th 2019, 6:41 am
Okay.
copper.warrioranalytics
copper.warrioranalytics

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on July 6th 2019, 7:19 am
@Krayt Dies do you have any disagreement so far?
The Apprentice
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on July 6th 2019, 7:28 am
No. I don't disagree that Sidious beats the team.
Azronger
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on July 6th 2019, 7:52 am
The Emperor wins
DC77 (Reborn)
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on July 6th 2019, 10:21 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
The Emperor slaughters.
KingofBlades
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Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on July 6th 2019, 10:41 am
Sidious coughs accidentally and they die
DoA
DoA

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on July 7th 2019, 9:03 am
Sheev was tearing apart space-time with his mere presence.

He kills them by giving them hugs.
EmperorCaedus
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Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on November 21st 2019, 4:47 pm
Sidious is on another level then these fodder.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on November 21st 2019, 4:52 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@DC77 (Reborn) wrote:The Emperor slaughters.
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

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on November 21st 2019, 4:58 pm
The team takes it.
BreakofDawn
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on November 21st 2019, 8:04 pm
I'm seeing a lot of fodder. Only factors are Dooku, Galen and Vader, and all of them are still outclassed. Combined, they'd put up a decent fight, but that's about it.
Azronger
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on November 24th 2019, 10:18 am
Galen's suicide blast was by far the most potent manifestation of power on the team and the Emperor's far weaker TFU incarnation endured it with no issue. He wins this.
HellfireUnit
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on November 24th 2019, 10:20 am
Sidious effortlessly
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

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on November 24th 2019, 11:18 am
@Azronger wrote:Galen's suicide blast was by far the most potent manifestation of power on the team and the Emperor's far weaker TFU incarnation endured it with no issue. He wins this.

I mean, having part of your face melted by a fraction of a blasts energy isn't exactly tanking it with no issue.
BreakofDawn
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on November 24th 2019, 11:51 am
@Syndiciate wrote:
@Azronger wrote:Galen's suicide blast was by far the most potent manifestation of power on the team and the Emperor's far weaker TFU incarnation endured it with no issue. He wins this.

I mean, having part of your face melted by a fraction of a blasts energy isn't exactly tanking it with no issue.
The explosion was right in his face and it barely did any damage beyond a few burns and scorch marks.
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

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on November 24th 2019, 1:00 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@Syndiciate wrote:
@Azronger wrote:Galen's suicide blast was by far the most potent manifestation of power on the team and the Emperor's far weaker TFU incarnation endured it with no issue. He wins this.

I mean, having part of your face melted by a fraction of a blasts energy isn't exactly tanking it with no issue.
The explosion was right in his face and it barely did any damage beyond a few burns and scorch marks.

None of what you just said ( outside of the inaccurate description of Sidious's injuries ) contradicts my statement. 

The Force energy was shown to encompass a vast area with the very edge of it being shown to take up hundreds of meters of space in all directions: 

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 FvQmHD7

The tiny ship at the corner of the page is the Rogue Shadow which is confirmed to be 65 meters long. 

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Zp0kSYY

Just use a little logic here. If Superman stands in the middle of a supernova and the energy washes over him before going outward in every direction like it normally would, is he tanking the full energy released by that supernova? That was rhetorical btw. 

Also, just to lay out the extent of Sidious's injuries, multiple areas of his body were melted with him groaning in pain after the explosion: 

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 XBVLJcH

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 SQ9QZm4

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 1wuz95D

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 HP1NZ4y


Last edited by Syndiciate on November 24th 2019, 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
BreakofDawn
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on November 24th 2019, 1:25 pm
None of those are what would in Star Wars be considered massively significant injuries. They look to be 2nd degree burns; that's it. He was at the epicentre of the explosion, where the kinetic and energy output would be at its most focused before spreading out and weakening. Where Sidious was standing, he would have been right where the energy would have exploded out of SK and crashed into him, yet all it did was leave him with some nasty burn marks.

It's an impressive feat to be sure, but hardly what I'd call life threatening.
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious  - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Darth Vader, Savage Opress and Galen Marek vs DE Darth Sidious

on November 24th 2019, 1:43 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:None of those are what would in Star Wars be considered massively significant injuries. They look to be 2nd degree burns; that's it. He was at the epicentre of the explosion, where the kinetic and energy output would be at its most focused before spreading out and weakening. Where Sidious was standing, he would have been right where the energy would have exploded out of SK and crashed into him, yet all it did was leave him with some nasty burn marks.

It's an impressive feat to be sure, but hardly what I'd call life threatening.

Again, you're dancing around the point. Even standing at the epicenter, Sidious's shields are not going to be absorbing the full energy of the attack. Given the tiny amount of space he occupies in comparison to the amount of space the explosion covered, his shields are only defending against a small part of the explosion's total energy.
Azronger
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on November 24th 2019, 1:51 pm
@Syndiciate wrote:
@Azronger wrote:Galen's suicide blast was by far the most potent manifestation of power on the team and the Emperor's far weaker TFU incarnation endured it with no issue. He wins this.

I mean, having part of your face melted by a fraction of a blasts energy isn't exactly tanking it with no issue.

We've discussed this before on call and agreed to disagree there. There was no common ground to be had as our methodologies differed. Nothing productive would come out of going over this again, especially in a forum environment.
Syndiciate
Syndiciate

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on November 24th 2019, 1:56 pm
@Azronger wrote:
@Syndiciate wrote:
@Azronger wrote:Galen's suicide blast was by far the most potent manifestation of power on the team and the Emperor's far weaker TFU incarnation endured it with no issue. He wins this.

I mean, having part of your face melted by a fraction of a blasts energy isn't exactly tanking it with no issue.

We've discussed this before on call and agreed to disagree there. There was no common ground to be had as our methodologies differed. Nothing productive would come out of going over this again, especially in a forum environment.

I mean, we agreed that the explosion's effect on Sidious was ultimately irrelevant as a result of the majority of its power deriving from Galen being in a state he wouldn't be in normally, but I don't know if we ever discussed how well Sidious took the blast. But I imagine a conversation on that topic would likely end up with neither of us changing our minds so I'm fine with leaving things here as I believe I've adequately laid out the extent of Sidious's injuries to the point that people can come to their own conclusions on how well he dealt with the blast.


Last edited by Syndiciate on November 24th 2019, 5:29 pm; edited 7 times in total
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