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LadyKulvax
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:17 pm
KOB, that's not the debate here at all. Have you even been reading?
Syndiciate
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:18 pm
Malak easily.
KingofBlades
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:21 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:KOB, that's not the debate here at all. Have you even been reading?
I'm not partaking in what you and Ant are debating. I'm answering the original question of SF Malak vs Exar Kun.
DarthAnt66
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:30 pm
So you think those collective military assets compare to a dark side super weapon which can create an endless amount of ships and Jedi-slaughtering droids?

??? 

Because guess what, Kun is a bigger threat because of his power. 

???

Just as the Emperor is, to answer your question of how a person's power compares to the Star Forge:

Revan never compared Vitiate's Force power to the Star Forge. 

As an individual Exar Kun is the biggest threat and we know he is because he's far more powerful and dangerous than anything else of his time.

That doesn't mean he's far more powerful and dangerous than his collective Empire and super-weapons.

He's confirmed to be so, he can even scale from the Dark Reaper. 

No.

In other words, Exar Kun who is confirmed to be a greater threat than Kyp in the same book:

Which is irrelevant to our discussion.

Is a greater threat than Daala's Imperial war machine which can destroy planets.

???

That's been known since 1977.

"In a standoff between the Death Star and Darth Vader, they have no question about who would win, and it’s not this mumbo-jumbo Sith guy. So it’s even more tragic, because he’s not even an all-powerful bad guy, he’s kind of a flunky." --GL

The reason it is relevant here is because the Star Forge is a dark side nexus that Malak can drain power from and is the source of his strength. That's the big deal here.

That's not at all relevant to the discussion, actually. 

But the issue is that you're saying it is limited due to the fact they face Kun/the Sith, but them facing him is merely a statement of what happens and not a careful limitation on what 'greatest threat' encompasses.

Refer to my school/monster example.

Well the Codex Entry says the Empire discovered it, not Revan and Malak. So clearly they predated that, regardless of explanation of which there are many. Though honestly that makes sense because we know that they also discovered a third station besides the Foundry which no one else knew about. They clearly found out about the Rakatan super stations in advanced.

That doesn't mean they discovered it first, nor that "discovered" constitutes knowing its location and interacting with it rather than just "discovering" its existence. 

--- --- ---

Consider this supernova explosion that decimated ten stars and their planets, caused by the Corsair and Keto:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Latest?cb=20081206053915

Consider this Sith super-weapon that razed armies of Jedi:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Dark_r10

Consider these hundreds (or, arguably, thousands) of Sith and dark Jedi followers:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Sith_w10

Consider this Mandalorian armada with its thousands of super-trained soldiers:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Fleet10

And consider all the thousands of Krath, Massassi, and other factions that allied with Kun.

If you put all of that in one corner, then Kun in the other corner, Kun would die. Badly. Instantly. He doesn't "scale" over all of this because he's the most powerful of the ancient Sith or whatever. And when the quote's referring to the "greatest threat," it's referring to this collective threat of all of those images plus Kun.

Unfortunately, I can't do this attrition game forever, and it seems just as unlikely that you'll convince me Kun can solar-system-bust as it is that I'll convince you Kun cannot solar-system-bust, so I'll let this by my final word for now. Though, if any other member has any questions on my points, let me know and I'll address them.


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on July 31st 2019, 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
DarthAnt66
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:33 pm
@DC77 (Reborn) wrote:My trolling appears to have been rather successful given:

>You keep taking the bait.

>You've literally been having a meltdown for the past two pages of this thread.

Sorry to interrupt your fantasy AP but I think it's about time I brought you back to the harsh reality of the situation.

@DC77 (Reborn): Stop harassing other members, and definitely don't admit you're intentionally trolling while doing it. Your posts have been removed.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:34 pm
As you wish.
LadyKulvax
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on July 31st 2019, 9:41 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
So you think those collective military assets compare to a dark side super weapon which can create an endless amount of ships and Jedi-slaughtering droids?

???

Because guess what, Kun is a bigger threat because of his power. 

???

Just as the Emperor is, to answer your question of how a person's power compares to the Star Forge:

Revan never compared Vitiate's Force power to the Star Forge. 

As an individual Exar Kun is the biggest threat and we know he is because he's far more powerful and dangerous than anything else of his time.

That doesn't mean he's far more powerful and dangerous than his collective Empire and super-weapons.

He's confirmed to be so, he can even scale from the Dark Reaper. 

No.

In other words, Exar Kun who is confirmed to be a greater threat than Kyp in the same book:

Which is irrelevant to our discussion.

Is a greater threat than Daala's Imperial war machine which can destroy planets.

[size=33]???[/size]

That's been known since 1977.

[size=33]"In a standoff between the Death Star and Darth Vader, they have no question about who would win, and it’s not this mumbo-jumbo Sith guy. So it’s even more tragic, because he’s not even an all-powerful bad guy, he’s kind of a flunky." --GL[/size]

The reason it is relevant here is because the Star Forge is a dark side nexus that Malak can drain power from and is the source of his strength. That's the big deal here.

That's not at all relevant to the discussion, actually. 

But the issue is that you're saying it is limited due to the fact they face Kun/the Sith, but them facing him is merely a statement of what happens and not a careful limitation on what 'greatest threat' encompasses.

Refer to my school/monster example.

Well the Codex Entry says the Empire discovered it, not Revan and Malak. So clearly they predated that, regardless of explanation of which there are many. Though honestly that makes sense because we know that they also discovered a third station besides the Foundry which no one else knew about. They clearly found out about the Rakatan super stations in advanced.

That doesn't mean they discovered it first, nor that "discovered" constitutes knowing its location and interacting with it rather than just "discovering" its existence. 

--- --- ---

Consider this supernova explosion that decimated ten stars and their planets, caused by the Corsair and Keto:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Latest?cb=20081206053915

Consider this Sith super-weapon that razed armies of Jedi:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Dark_r10

Consider these hundreds (or, arguably, thousands) of Sith and dark Jedi followers:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Sith_w10

Consider this Mandalorian armada with its thousands of super-trained soldiers:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Fleet10

And consider all the thousands of Krath, Massassi, and other factions that allied with Kun.

If you put all of that in one corner, then Kun in the other corner, Kun would die. Badly. Instantly. He doesn't "scale" over all of this because he's the most powerful of the ancient Sith or whatever. And when the quote's referring to the "greatest threat," it's referring to this collective threat of all of those images plus Kun.

Unfortunately, I can't do this attrition game forever, and it seems just as unlikely that you'll convince me Kun can solar-system-bust as it is that I'll convince you Kun cannot solar-system-bust, so I'll let this by my final word for now. Though, if any other member has any questions on my points, let me know and I'll address them.

You don't seem to be getting the point. Kun is a greater threat than the Star Forge. If the Star Forge could genuinely make Malak more powerful than Exar Kun then he wouldn't be. That's the point here. The Star Forge's dark side power which is portrayed as it's greatest asset and function, the thing Malak reveals to be his trump card over Revan. Is not as great as Exar Kun's own power. Exar Kun is the biggest threat of his time and up to that time because of his Force power, and even as of the NR era's time his power as a spirit is a far greater threat than any military strength. But that's not the point. My argument from the start is that in terms of Force power, Kun is greater.

Exar Kun > Star Forge in power, thus Exar Kun > Malak.

Don't try pidgeon holing me with acting as if I'm claiming Kun solar system busts. I thought you were better than that.
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 1st 2019, 4:01 am
SithArchaeologist wrote:
@Azronger wrote:I've been toying with the idea the quote may refer to standard Malak as well. The Star Forge amp would just be another boon on top of that.

I'm not sure the quote really supports that stance, but there's definitely an argument to be made that base Malak is above Kun anyway due to his superiority to Darth Revan. And regardless, the "Star Forge amp" is a bit of misnomer as it is more akin to the amp Taalon got from the Pool than a nexus amp that is location locked.

In a vacuum, no, but the wording doesn't preclude that either: "Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd" - that sentence doesn't tie his powers to a single location. But that is still generally assumed because the article strongly hints at the Star Forge being the source of his strength:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Malak_10

However, the video game tells us that Malak is growing stronger continuously from the Star Forge according to the Rakatans and Bastila Shan. Since it's unlikely the Star Forge's inherent nexus is increasing in potency for no reason, the far more likely explanation is that it's providing a permanent addition to Malak's Force reserves.

"You must go now, Revan. The Star Forge feeds the power of your old apprentice. If you do not stop him soon he will become too powerful for even you to stop."

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Malak_11

That explanation still fits with the quote, since it's just saying Malak's powers are greater than Kun's or Nadd's and asking what gave such power.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 1st 2019, 8:17 am
Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 1289255181
HellfireUnit
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 7:01 am
Still Malak.
IdrisianGraecus
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 8:06 am
Yeah, base Malak should be above Kun. All the quotes about Exar being the “galaxies greatest threat” and whatnot really shouldn’t apply to characters that didn’t exist at the time of the publishing, should they?
LadyKulvax
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 8:16 am
Kun roflstomps Malak, Kun has feats against vastly more impressive characters than Prodigal Revan.
Deronn_Solo
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 1:15 pm
Malak is superior by canon.
LadyKulvax
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 7:06 pm
No he isn't, per Cory Herndon that isn't what it means.
Deronn_Solo
Deronn_Solo

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 7:43 pm
Quotes and citation needed, pls. Aside from some mental gymnastics, it seems pretty cut and dry to me.
LadyKulvax
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 19th 2019, 10:28 pm
Cory Herndon, Twitter wrote:"I think my thoughts at the time were that Malak was in a position to, with Revan, conquer the Republic, and therefore was the most powerful. And I was *definitely* thinking that the Star Forge's power, both in terms of being able to spit out ships and perhaps having a Dark Side connection made him clearly one of the most powerful Sith in history."
ILS
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 12:28 pm
Kun wins here, tbh. Better feats and he is buffed by the DS nexus of the Forge as well.
HellfireUnit
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 12:29 pm
@ILS wrote:Kun wins here, tbh. Better feats and he is buffed by the DS nexus of the Forge as well.

Battle doesn't take place in SF
HellfireUnit
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 12:30 pm
Otherwise I agree, Kun should stomp base Malak.
ILS
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 12:30 pm
Then it's not SF Malak

SF is a location
HellfireUnit
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 12:33 pm
Yeah ik but it's just comparing SF version of Malak with base Kun. Not based on rationalizing.
Deronn_Solo
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 2:23 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:
Cory Herndon, Twitter wrote:"I think my thoughts at the time were that Malak was in a position to, with Revan, conquer the Republic, and therefore was the most powerful. And I was *definitely* thinking that the Star Forge's power, both in terms of being able to spit out ships and perhaps having a Dark Side connection made him clearly one of the most powerful Sith in history."
 
Interesting. Isn't this the same guy Ant message before that confirmed otherwise? Yeah, he seemingly did an entire 360.

That's the problem with messaging these story group guys -- they are hardly ever dogmatic about their work in regards to sourcebook statements in such, and answers questions in ways as neutral as possible.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 2:47 pm
Malak.
LadyKulvax
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 20th 2019, 9:23 pm
@Deronn_Solo wrote:
@LadyKulvax wrote:
Cory Herndon, Twitter wrote:"I think my thoughts at the time were that Malak was in a position to, with Revan, conquer the Republic, and therefore was the most powerful. And I was *definitely* thinking that the Star Forge's power, both in terms of being able to spit out ships and perhaps having a Dark Side connection made him clearly one of the most powerful Sith in history."
 
Interesting. Isn't this the same guy Ant message before that confirmed otherwise? Yeah, he seemingly did an entire 360.

That's the problem with messaging these story group guys -- they are hardly ever dogmatic about their work in regards to sourcebook statements in such, and answers questions in ways as neutral as possible.
Well when he messaged Ant he was hardly concrete there either. His only two points then was that: 1.The web article is canon. 2.He still thinks Malak wins.

But yeah, Kun's feats curb Malak's by a hilarious degree.
Azronger
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Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Empty Re: Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun

on August 21st 2019, 3:18 am
@Azronger wrote:
SithArchaeologist wrote:
@Azronger wrote:I've been toying with the idea the quote may refer to standard Malak as well. The Star Forge amp would just be another boon on top of that.

I'm not sure the quote really supports that stance, but there's definitely an argument to be made that base Malak is above Kun anyway due to his superiority to Darth Revan. And regardless, the "Star Forge amp" is a bit of misnomer as it is more akin to the amp Taalon got from the Pool than a nexus amp that is location locked.

In a vacuum, no, but the wording doesn't preclude that either: "Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd" - that sentence doesn't tie his powers to a single location. But that is still generally assumed because the article strongly hints at the Star Forge being the source of his strength:

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Malak_10

However, the video game tells us that Malak is growing stronger continuously from the Star Forge according to the Rakatans and Bastila Shan. Since it's unlikely the Star Forge's inherent nexus is increasing in potency for no reason, the far more likely explanation is that it's providing a permanent addition to Malak's Force reserves.

"You must go now, Revan. The Star Forge feeds the power of your old apprentice. If you do not stop him soon he will become too powerful for even you to stop."

Star Forge Malak V Exar Kun - Page 3 Malak_11

That explanation still fits with the quote, since it's just saying Malak's powers are greater than Kun's or Nadd's and asking what gave such power.

As I've explained above, base Malak should still be above Kun, @ILS @HellfireUnit
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