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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Level One
Level One

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:56 am
@ILS wrote:
ArkhamAsylum3 wrote:@ILS

Of course, neither of them are going to drain a planet mid-battle but the fact is it's a feat exponentially better than anything Vader's accomplished especially when you consider the fact that Vitiate did it while heavily weakened.
I don't see how you can feasibly quantify the feat and justify oneshotting Vader. We don't know how it was accomplished for one. We also don't know how useful the technique itself (the death wave) is in combat versus how it affects the environment.

We know different techniques produce different effects (TK will always cause far, far more environmental destruction than Force Lightning), but that doesn't always tell us their utility in a fight versus a Force wielder ( we know that lightning can cripple someone and cause their body to spasm uncontrollably in ways blunt TK cannot even if coming from the same fighter).

My point is twofold: not only am I willing to bet that Vader's Force defences are most potent than anything that was destroyed in that death wave (and probably plenty of the stuff that survived it, and that's even if the deathwave is able to be used in combat [we don't know how it was summoned]), but I'm also willing to bet that if SWTOR Vitiate or Revan took their same power and used something more along the lines of telekinesis or lightning, they would not "oneshot" Vader through his prepared defences. At least, I don't see any reason to believe they can, and am not privy to a feat where they've oneshotted a Vader level opponent.

Well, if you're looking for quantifiable combat feats as far as SWTOR Vitiate is concerned, I would first and foremost bring up his utter domination of the four "most powerful and resolute jedi" in the galaxy during the Act 2 finale, a team which included:


  • The Hero of Tython: Repeatedly referred to as the most powerful jedi in the order even as of the end of Act 1, putting him beyond the likes of Satele Shan, Barsen'thor, Gnost Dural, etc. I discuss more on this more indepth on my Power of HoT Blog. Suffice it to say, the HoT is ludicrously powerful even by the end of Act 2.
  • Tol Braga: Shown to be the 2nd most powerful member of the strike team based on their performances against the Emperor, fought a Dark Council member for days and came out victorious, and was able to push end of Act 3 HoT after being given an (unquantifiable) amp from the Emperor.
  • Warren Sedoru: Stated to be "the greatest soldier in the order in his day," a role that fell upon the Hero of Tython at the start of Act 2 according to Tol Braga, which is pretty damn impressive given the likes of Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan, Syo Bakarn, etc and their exploits.
  • Leeha Narezz: Doesn't really have much going for her other than being stated to be "the most powerful and resolute jedi" in the galaxy alongside the rest of the strike team.


I know in the face of the zany scaling chains birthed in the postmodern era it can be hard to look at this and say, "wow, that's crazy," but when you consider how easily Vitiate was able to just annihilate this strike team of extremely powerful jedi (essentially by just waving his hand), and that he wasn't trying to kill them, but dominate their minds and turn them into his pawns, and that the huge gaps shown in scaling chains are generally not shown on paper, the feat becomes insanely impressive. The Hero of Tython even notes at the end of Act 2 that it wasn't even really fair to call it a fight. Compare this to how the likes of Darth Caedus are more or less rivalled by a comparatively inferior strike team.  When I look at it like this, I find it hard to believe Vitiate would perceive Vader as much more than a triviality.

As it relates to Revan, well, I'd have to see the definitive argument for why SOR Revan is on par with (or above) SWTOR Vitiate.
darthbane77
darthbane77

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:42 am
Revan obliterates
Azronger
Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:09 am
DC77 wrote:Vader as of ROTJ.

Revan as of SOR.

Az Vader wank is disabled.

Who wins out of these two titans?

So basically, you're completely erasing feats and accolades for Vader to artificially engineer Revan's victory here? Why even make this thread if you're going to intentionally make it unfair for the other side, especially when not everyone agrees with me on Vader's standing even when all of his material is enabled?
Isv
Isv

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:56 am
@Azronger wrote:
DC77 wrote:Vader as of ROTJ.

Revan as of SOR.

Az Vader wank is disabled.

Who wins out of these two titans?

So basically, you're completely erasing feats and accolades for Vader to artificially engineer Revan's victory here? Why even make this thread if you're going to intentionally make it unfair for the other side, especially when not everyone agrees with me on Vader's standing even when all of his material is enabled?

Az I'm not going to be opposing of you directly, but come on man. Some of the stuff about Starkiller and Yoda to me at least doesn't make sense, we can DM about it if you like, not as master and apprentice but as friends debating, I mean I love Vader to pieces, but a lot of the stuff you have brought up can be debunked tbh, again no offense is meant Vader V Revan - Page 2 228124001

I actually would like to debate this with you as a learning experience, I've heard Ant's side, I want to hear yours if you don't mind
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
Level Four
Level Four

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:56 pm
@Azronger The "Az Vader wank is disabled" s**t is for comedic purposes only kek.
Azronger
Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:31 pm
DC77 wrote:@Azronger The "Az Vader wank is disabled" s**t is for comedic purposes only kek.

Well if it isn't disabled then Vader curbstomps per all the reasoning I've laid out that no one has successfully refuted so far, and won't be for a few months until Ant posts.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:02 am
Shadow Revan >> Reborn Revan >> Novel Revan > Meetra Surik > Malachor!Traya > Darth Traya > Dantooine!Traya >> Zez-Kai Ell, Vrook Lamar, Kavar & Lonna Vash >> Lucien Draay < Darth Vader tbh.
Isv
Isv

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:08 am
@LadyKulvax wrote:Shadow Revan >> Reborn Revan >> Novel Revan > Meetra Surik > Malachor!Traya > Darth Traya > Dantooine!Traya >> Zez-Kai Ell, Vrook Lamar, Kavar & Lonna Vash >> Lucien Draay < Darth Vader tbh.

You confuse me. You love anakin, but lowball Vader to a memeworthy amount, how is that even possible?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level One
Level One

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:13 am
Hey, I'm just warning you of what your Wizards of the Coast logic will get you.
Mithrandi
Mithrandi

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Sun May 26, 2019 8:40 am
SOR Revan>Darth Vader>Redeemed Revan/Darth Revan in my honest opinion.
The Apprentice
The Apprentice
Level Two
Level Two

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Sun May 26, 2019 3:14 pm
@Mithrandi wrote:SOR Revan>Darth Vader>Redeemed Revan/Darth Revan in my honest opinion.

Why is Vader > Redeemed Revan? Reasons for him winning? Hell, I'd entertain having Darth Revan over him though I'd probably side with Vader.
DC77 (Reborn)
DC77 (Reborn)
Level Four
Level Four

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Sun May 26, 2019 3:17 pm
Vader probably splits with Novel Revan or loses ngl. SOR Revan slaps.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level One
Level One

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Sun May 26, 2019 3:50 pm
SOR Revan wins
The Apprentice
The Apprentice
Level Two
Level Two

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Sun May 26, 2019 3:55 pm
DC77 wrote:Vader probably splits with Novel Revan or loses ngl. SOR Revan slaps.

Reasons for him splitting?
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus

Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

on Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:28 pm
Revan blinks
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Vader V Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: Vader V Revan

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