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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:26 am
I am away from PC ATM so I cannot respond properly, but I encourage you all to be open minded, perhaps play devils advocate, Luke needs defending
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LOTL

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:40 am
The Chosen One wrote:
@LOTL wrote:Luke later conceded inferiority/parity to Ben as of ROTJ himself, not sure if ESB Luke even registers next to Ben

Luke's opinions on Ben aren't at all accurate as he thinks he's like Sidious tier and can destroy Vader with a wave of his hand. Also doesn't this kinda destroy your argument before about Vader's "far more formidable" quote being legit given Luke is canonically equal with ROTJ Vader and if Luke is canonically < Old Ben then Vader obviously can't have grown much?

Luke doesn't think Ben is Sidious tier lmfao. The closest to that is him commenting that his force potential is greater than Kyp, but aside from the fact that he most likely is referring to Jedi( he states Jedi potential), the comparison is that of potential. Luke hasn't been to the deepest parts of Sidious's mind and sensed his potential, obviously because Palpatine wouldn't let him.

For the record, the Fight for Justice has Ben beating Vader throughout the fight, from Luke's perspective. It's a primary source since that has the full fight. He has seen Ben's power firsthand, hence I am going to need compelling evidence that he directly tells that Ben can destroy Vader with a wave of his hand. That and it needs to be direct evidence not an implication from an imaginary parity to Palpatine

On Vader, not convinced that he is canonically equal to Luke( haven't made up my mind), and in any case, Luke was talking about force strength, not overall ability, even if you consider that Luke is equal to Vader in all areas that pertain to combat
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LOTL

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:44 am
In-sidiousvader wrote:I am away from PC ATM so I cannot respond properly, but I encourage you all to be open minded, perhaps play devils advocate, Luke needs defending

He is already the most OP character on these forums lol

Obviously you mean Vader. In that case you need not worry. The vast majority of the forum still has Vader above the Count
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Meatpants
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:54 am
The only real argument people have for Vader > Dooku is scaling off Mustafar Anakin, but that's extremely faulty in of itself.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:47 pm
@LOTL There's literally a quote which separates any emotional factors that may have been present in the duel between Father and Son from their actual power levels which are noted to be equal. It's embarrassing to watch people try to worm out of the two being equals at this point tbh. Just accept it.
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LOTL

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:07 pm
I said I am not convinced. Not that I have an opinion
DoA
DoA

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:40 am
ESB ANH Luke TP'd Vader's unprotected mind
Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 WKIhvXS
Easily RotJ Sheev level imo
Isv
Isv

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:16 am
DOA shitposting got me like "you are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor!"
Quorian Debatist
Quorian Debatist

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:05 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:I am away from PC ATM so I cannot respond properly, but I encourage you all to be open minded, perhaps play devils advocate, Luke needs defending
How long do you plan to be away from your computer? Forever?
DC77 (Reborn)
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:49 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Long enough for people to forget about it I assume so he doesn't have to admit he has no quotes.

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DoA
DoA

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:44 pm
@LOTL wrote:The vast majority of the forum still has Vader above the Count
MYGOD and Erkan destroying Dookie fanboys with FACTS and LOGIC Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 4233314142
The Apprentice
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:28 pm
Lmao.
Gaunter O'Dimm
Gaunter O'Dimm

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:52 am
Dooku stomps via feats and logic.
KingofBlades
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:01 am
Dooku>>RotS Kenobi>/=Ben Kenobi>>ESB Luke
Dooku gives him the Ventress treatment and one shots him.
Isv
Isv

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:11 am
Wow, that's a tough argument to beat, Dooku being >> ROTS Kenobi and Ben being > ESB Luke despite multiple quotes claiming the opposite. How utterly undefeatable. Obviously Kenobi is not relativistic to Dooku in any way
KingofBlades
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:46 am
Flunky Cyborg wrote:Wow, that's a tough argument to beat, Dooku being >> ROTS Kenobi and Ben being > ESB Luke despite multiple quotes claiming the opposite. How utterly undefeatable. Obviously Kenobi is not relativistic to Dooku in any way

The various sources on the matter have Ben Kenobi Being = to Vader, ESB Luke's superior.

“Teacher and pupil engaged in a savage but evenly matched lightsaber battle.” (Source: Star Wars The Essential Guide to Characters)

“Although Obi-Wan is still a match for Darth Vader, he allows himself to be killed in the duel, giving Luke and the Rebels precious time to escape.” (Source: Star Wars Mysteries of the Jedi)

“Darth Vader is the preeminent lightsaber master in the galaxy, now that Obi-Wan Kenobi has been destroyed.” (Source: Star Wars Lightsaber Dueling Pack - Darth Vader)

Lucas himself holds Vader in a worse light.

"The idea of Vader using telekinetic powers during his fight with Luke was created during story meetings. There was concern, however, that the audience might think back to the first film and wonder why Vader didn't use all his powers on Ben; but this was easily explained by the fact that Ben was probably stronger than Vader.George Lucas and Leigh Brackett also discussed the different levels of the Force; maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four, Luke is now at level two."

Source: Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays

So Ben is at worst Vader's equal and at best superior to Vader who is himself superior to ESB Luke
Dooku being>>RotS Kenobi at least in the force is clear by Obi Wan's fight in the IH.
So its pretty clear that Dooku>>RotS  Obi wan>/=Ben Kenobi>/=Vader>ESB Luke.
Isv
Isv

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:51 am
@KingofBlades wrote:
Flunky Cyborg wrote:Wow, that's a tough argument to beat, Dooku being >> ROTS Kenobi and Ben being > ESB Luke despite multiple quotes claiming the opposite. How utterly undefeatable. Obviously Kenobi is not relativistic to Dooku in any way

The various sources on the matter have Ben Kenobi Being = to Vader, ESB Luke's superior.

“Teacher and pupil engaged in a savage but evenly matched lightsaber battle.” (Source: Star Wars The Essential Guide to Characters)

“Although Obi-Wan is still a match for Darth Vader, he allows himself to be killed in the duel, giving Luke and the Rebels precious time to escape.” (Source: Star Wars Mysteries of the Jedi)

“Darth Vader is the preeminent lightsaber master in the galaxy, now that Obi-Wan Kenobi has been destroyed.” (Source: Star Wars Lightsaber Dueling Pack - Darth Vader)

Lucas himself holds Vader in a worse light.

"The idea of Vader using telekinetic powers during his fight with Luke was created during story meetings. There was concern, however, that the audience might think back to the first film and wonder why Vader didn't use all his powers on Ben; but this was easily explained by the fact that Ben was probably stronger than Vader.George Lucas and Leigh Brackett also discussed the different levels of the Force; maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four, Luke is now at level two."

Source: Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays

So Ben is at worst Vader's equal and at best superior to Vader who is himself superior to ESB Luke
Dooku being>>RotS Kenobi at least in the force is clear by Obi Wan's fight in the IH.
So its pretty clear that Dooku>>RotS  Obi wan>/=Ben Kenobi>/=Vader>ESB Luke.
Amazing, every word you just said was wrong. 

Before i write an actual post please provide proof Ben is luke's superior.
KingofBlades
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:58 am
How about you enlighten me as to why every word I said was wrong when the things I claimed were supported by quotes. And my proof is my post, so how about you write an actual rebuttal if you think I'm wrong instead of just saying I'm wrong.
Isv
Isv

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:48 am
We can go in circles all day son. Difference is, while you actually want to debate this, It's a waste of my time. Provide the proof to your claim or concede, ill write my post if you back up your bullshit

Thank you very much,

- the not hostile, just fed up ISV.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:54 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 2829155256
KingofBlades
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:07 am
As far as I can tell the only thing I have not explained was Vader>ESB Luke, something I thought was unilaterally accepted. So it seems I'll have to do that.

“As father and son faced each other in a lightsaber duel, it was clear that the younger man had now developed powers that equaled his father’s,” (Official Star Wars Fact File 5)

This is stating RotJ Luke had reached a level equal to Vader, meaning he was weaker to Vader before RotJ. Also there's you know Vader actually beating ESB Luke showing his superiority. There's also the quote provided in one of my previous posts which said that Lucas believed Ben was stronger than both Vader and luke, with the gap between Luke and Ben being considerable.
So unless you believe ESB Luke is>than Vader, an inferior to Ben, you have no reason to believe Luke>Ben.
Isv
Isv

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:08 am
@KingofBlades wrote:As far as I can tell the only thing I have not explained was Vader>ESB Luke, something I thought was unilaterally accepted. So it seems I'll have to do that.

“As father and son faced each other in a lightsaber duel, it was clear that the younger man had now developed powers that equaled his father’s,” (Official Star Wars Fact File 5)

This is stating RotJ Luke had reached a level equal to Vader, meaning he was weaker to Vader before RotJ. Also there's you know Vader actually beating ESB Luke showing his superiority. There's also the quote provided in one of my previous posts which said  that Lucas believed Ben was stronger than both Vader and luke, with the gap between Luke and Ben being  considerable.
So unless you believe ESB Luke is>than Vader, an inferior to Ben, you have no reason to believe Luke>Ben.

Okay, well I have an appointment with my college tomorrow so I cannot respond tonight. I'll admit to being hostile initially, my sincerest apologies, I don't believe we have met? I am In-sidiousvader common defender for the criminally underrated Vader. I tend to take stances that are off the wall or seemingly impossible to support for the sheer thrill of it, helps I like Vader 😋. Anyway, as i was saying, I am commonly regarded as the town idiot for my outlandish views, but good discussion is something i thoroughly enjoy, I will have a full (more polite post) up tomorrow. No the moderators did not get to me either, my conscience is just nagging away at me. I tend to get defensive sometimes but since you are new blood here, I would like to give you a chance, it is just a hobby after all

Sincerely ISV
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:46 pm
Az's views are outlandish but he's not the town idiot. People's opinion of you is dictated by your ability to defend your stances, which you are woeful at.
Isv
Isv

Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:37 pm
No u
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

on Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:32 am
And you wonder why people don't like you...
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Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS - Page 2 Empty Re: Esb Luke vs Count Dooku ROTS

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