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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:26 pm
RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Battle10


  • The Emperor as of Revenge of the Sith.
  • Luke Skywalker as of Tyrant's Test.
  • POWER.
  • No prep or foreknowledge.
  • Victory via physical death
  • Starting distance: 25m


Discuss. RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke 1076326320
Bart
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:53 pm
LUKE
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:08 pm
@Bart wrote:LUKE

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke 1668617588
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:14 pm
I know Luke isn't Vader level until some time after Dark Emperor but he should still be able to beat any Palpatine until ROTJ between 9 - 29 ABY
darthbane77
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:23 pm
VaderFanFromPartsUnknown wrote:I know Luke isn't Vader level until some time after Dark Emperor but he should still be able to beat any Palpatine until ROTJ between 9 - 29 ABY

Bruh, Luke is Vader's equal, if not superior, as of "Return of the Jedi". Only source I know of that implies otherwise is DE, but in that same source, Luke defeats Sidious in single combat, which is immeasurably beyond Vader's ability. Luke by the end of DE should be more comparable to Yoda and RotS Sidious than he is Vader, I'd actually bank on DE Luke being above Yoda, if not also above RotS Sidious.
darthbane77
darthbane77

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:24 pm
Could go either way, tbh. I *might* give it to Sidious just due to having greater experience, but Luke *did* manage to beat Sidious in a duel in DE, and he'd have only gotten better by "Tyrant's Test".
TheGlory
TheGlory

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:26 am
There can be a case for Luke here. Interesting fight to be sure.
DC77 (Reborn)
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:00 am
Luke, tbh.
DarthSkywalker0
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:03 am
@Bart wrote:LUKE
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:44 am
Luke as of rotj could win with years of growth he kinda stomps
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:53 am
In-sidiousvader wrote:Luke as of rotj could win with years of growth he kinda stomps

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke 1076326320
blackymarket
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:25 pm
Luke with high difficulty
MasterCilghal
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:23 pm
This Luke in the black fleet crisis is far more powerful than DE, in fact Luke has already grown in power during the JA trilogy ( there is a specific quote that attests it). I’d say he take a small majority.
EmperorCaedus
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:44 pm
Luke
BreakofDawn
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:47 pm
Not sure, to be honest. Luke grew massively by this point as opposed to his sub Vader power level as of ROTJ but I honestly can't remember how this would scale him against ROTS Sheev. I'll say Luke wins in a solid fight.
MasterCilghal
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:59 pm
WalkingInCircles wrote:sub Vader power level as of ROTJ



Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Forcetheir duels are more than just about physical strength.
 Star Wars - Beware of the Sith


Father and son were now equally strong with the Force and equally skilled with their lightsabers. But this battlewas more than just physical strength and Force powers. 
Star Wars - Jedi Battles



The fight this time was far more balancedVader discovered that Luke was his match.
Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File 111


Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers even more vicious than the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to attack.
Source: Star Wars Episode VI - Return of the Jedi script


On the Death Star, Luke and Darth Vader were engaged in a duel that was even more vicious than their battle on Cloud City. Luke had grown stronger since their last encounter, and his skill with his lightsaber had improved greatly. As they swung at each other in the Emperor’s throne room, Luke sensed the advantage had shifted to him.
Star Wars Episode VI - Return of the Jedi junior novelization

lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:03 pm
thats nice. i have some of those that say the opposite. lol
DarthAnt66
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:11 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
For every quote suggesting Vader > Luke, there's five stating Luke > or = Vader.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:14 pm
yeah, and for every one of those, i can post lucas saying that vader was stronger, lmao good luck debunking that shit
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:17 pm
Well, children love power because children are the powerless. And so their fantasies all center on having power. And who’s more powerful than Darth Vader, you know? And, some, you know, will be attracted to Luke Skywalker because he’s the good guy. But ultimately, we all know that Darth Vader’s more powerful than he is. -- https://billmoyers.com/content/mythology-of-star-wars-george-lucas/ ... 


the bitch in question ^^
DarthAnt66
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:20 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Given all the surrounding context is about how children love power yet are powerless, I don't think Lucas' usage of "power" for Vader refers to "the amount of Force power he has" rather than "one guy is basically the ruler of the galaxy with Death Stars and armies whereas the other's a small rag-tag team." People forget "power" has many meanings and the one we commonly attribute to it isn't really ever how it's used in real-life talk. Lucas isn't trying to rip out lore accolades here, lmao.

Note, however, Lucas wrote the ROTJ script, which states Luke's equal to Vader in ability. Lucas also wrote earlier drafts stating Luke's more powerful than Vader. Oh, and Lucas said that Luke didn't even start "trying" to fight until his rage attack at the end, insinuating Luke was still holding back when he kicked Vader down the stairs.

lmao good luck debunking that shit

All too easy.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd

RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:23 pm
this is lucas we are talking about, and children, so i doubt it has to do with how big his army is. he also says "who is more powerful than darth vader" if we are talking about armies and politics, then the obvious answer would be sheev, and not vader. also talks about how people think luke is more powerful cuz he is the good guy, and he has nothing, like u said, so he isnt talking about armies, he is talking about personal power. less easy now?
DarthAnt66
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:26 pm
Huh? Vader flies around on a fleet of Star Destroyers, can get everything he wants, has a SS death squadron following him, etc.

Lucas' rhetorical "who is more powerful than Darth Vader?" makes far more sense within that context than personal power. Note Lucas has stated Palpatine is "much more powerful" than Vader, and he explicitly puts Anakin and co. above Vader also. There's less people he would put above Vader in influence (probably just Palpatine).

The fact Lucas says "Luke is more powerful cuz he is the good guy," per your words, also clearly shows Lucas is thinking about character qualities than Force power.


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:29 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)
MasterCilghal
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:30 pm
Exactly. And not only that, but the quote is pretty clearly referring to the impression one has watching the movies, rather than his actual standing in force power. In fact, Lucas himself called the fight between Luke in ESB and Vader “slightly one sided”. There’s no reason to not to believe the two are equals by ROTJ. Then again, it is a testament to Luke’s power rather than some kind of weakness on Vader’s part.
IdrisianGraecus
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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:30 pm
Dear god, your lack of reading comprehension is astounding. Children want to have “power”... power, as in they want to feel powerful, and like ant said, this is macro, not micro as you interpret it.

Definition of power (Entry 1 of 3)
1a(1) : ability to act or produce an effect
(2) : ability to get extra-base hits
(3) : capacity for being acted upon or undergoing an effect
b : legal or official authority, capacity, or right
2a : possession of control, authority, or influence over others
b : one having such power
specifically : a sovereign state
c : a controlling group : ESTABLISHMENT —often used in the phrase the powers that be
d archaic : a force of armed men
e chiefly dialectal : a large number or quantity
3a : physical might
b : mental or moral efficacy
c : political control or influence

Source: Merriam Webster dictionary.

Almost every single goddamn definition of power concerns power on a macro, not micro scale. One definition interprets it personally... one.


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RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke Empty Re: RotS Sheev vs. TT Luke

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