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Blog | Qui-Gon Jinn TPM Feat Analysis and Accolades Empty Blog | Qui-Gon Jinn TPM Feat Analysis and Accolades

on June 2nd 2019, 9:51 am
Plagueis came to an abrupt halt. "Worse news yet. I have met Qui-Gon, and he is nothing like some of the others Dooku trained."
-Darth Plagueis

This was my victory as much as Lord Maul's, for it was thanks to my teaching, my training, that he was able to defeat the great Qui-Gon Jinn.
-Episode I Journal: Darth Maul

Introduction


Okay, so this is my final piece on Qui-Gon methinks. Any additions I make about certain matchups or concepts will just be added as an Appendix, and I'll post to notify that I've added something. Gonna roll off some names that gave me a lot of help with source collecting and concept creating: DarthAnt66, DarthSkywalker0, Jake, Ethanion, Branhole, GreySentinel.

The standard for ranking of sources will follow in accordance with the formal and informal policies of Lucas Licensing as of September 2012, including the internal continuity rankings of the Holocron. Lucas’ works (‘G’ Canon) therefore rank above everything else; which primarily include the movies and the official movie scripts. Hence anything from any other continuity source (‘C’ Canon) is disregarded if contradicted by Lucas’ G-canon. In addition, the following rules are also taken into account:

1. Feats take precedent over directly contradicted statements. For example, a feat indisputably showing X is greater than Y overrides a statement stating Y is greater than X;
2. Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made to provide explanation;
3. The opinion of authors have no validity and cannot be used unless they are explicitly accepted into the continuity;
4. All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.

Glossary


These are terms that are shorthanded in citations or in general text to improve overall readability.

Script - The Phantom Menace script, sourced from https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html

Novel - The Phantom Menace novelisation.

WoDM - The Wrath of Darth Maul

EG - End Game

FF - Fact Files

DMJ - Episode I Journal: Darth Maul

DMR - Darth Maul's Revenge

LoE - Labyrinth of Evil

LotJ - Legacy of the Jedi

RotS: N - Return of the Sith novelisation

NEGtC - New Essential Guide to Characters

TCSWE - The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

JvS - Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

The Old Rascal


Qui-Gon’s lightsaber training began in the same way as every other Jedi initiate at the Jedi Temple. Jinn was a prodigy with the blade, even during this time. Dooku, now a freshly minted Jedi Knight “maneuvered to get him [Qui-Gon] the first time he saw him in lightsaber training, at ten years old.” (LotJ) In addition, Qui-Gon had been “the most promising of the Padawans” and Dooku chose him on the grounds of wanting “the best of the best”. Jinn proved to be as good a Padawan as Dooku could ask for, as he relays to Qui-Gon before his trials to Knighthood (Ibid). In fact, as a Padawan, Dooku admired his apprentice’s “fluid, graceful manner” in lightsaber combat, moving “swiftly and easily” (Ibid) even years before their final mission. The couple had sparred thousands of times, and Jinn was always going to become an extremely talented lightsaber duelist (RotS: N). He went on to be “one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen.” (TCSWE), “one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi Order.” (Novel), “a master duelist by anyone’s standards” (NEGtC), “one of the most skilled of the Jedi” (Star Wars: Episode 1 Game Manual) and was known by reputation as a “celebrated Jedi lightsaber Master” (EG).

Qui-Gon Jinn’s chosen form of lightsaber combat was Form IV: Ataru (RotS: N; Fightsaber), though the Jedi Master would go on to expand his lightsaber skills beyond a single form, creating a style “like no other” (Power Battles Prima Guide). He mastered “the same classical techniques” of Count Dooku, along with “untraditional combat forms from across the galaxy.” (Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force). There’s two ways this can be interpreted: either Qui-Gon mastered the classical techniques of Form II: Makashi, or the seven “classical” forms of lightsaber combat, as they have been referred to as (LoE). The second option would indicate Jinn had mastered every form of lightsaber combat. Whether this, or the former is true does not detract from Qui-Gon’s skill with the lightsaber being one of the most impressive in the Jedi Order’s history.

His style is also just as impressive. An amalgam of years of experience in the lightsaber duel, it is described as beautiful with “deadly calm” (Power Battles Prima Guide). In fact, it’s only “slightly” less deadly than Windu’s style of Vaapad (Ibid). Mace Windu was considered on par with the likes of Yoda and Dooku by TPM. Vaapad itself was created via the study of the styles of various lightsaber masters (NEGtC), and built on top of Juyo, the seventh form of lightsaber dueling and the most deadly and demanding. Thus Qui-Gon’s style being only slightly less deadly than Windu’s Vaapad is impressive, and points to yet another facet of his skill with the lightsaber.

Experience was an extremely valuable tool in Qui-Gon’s arsenal. At 60 years old, he had been a Jedi Knight/Master for about 40 years, had sparred Dooku thousands of times and throughout his Jedi career. This experience gave him a distinct advantage over Darth Maul in TPM: “His edge now [...] came from his long experience and intuitive grasp of how an adversary might employ a lightsaber against him.” (Novel) Although slower than his apprentice, Obi-Wan Kenobi, in TPM due to his advancing age, “Experience has taught him, however, that sometimes focus is a more powerful ally than agility.” (Power Battles Prima Guide)

Tatooine


Qui-Gon turned and saw Maul approaching him on his speeder, and proceeded to order Anakin to drop. Note that Maul had masked his presence in the Force to avoid detection (Starships and Vehicles #21). This sequence of events is only contradicted by EG in slight detail, and so can be safely dismissed on those grounds. Qui-Gon is stated as only "barely" deflecting Maul's flying attack in the Script, Novel, and FF, whereas in EG and DMJ, both from Maul's perspective, Qui-Gon's "shrewd readiness had almost taken Maul off his guard." (EG). These opposing descriptions are not mutually exclusive, however, as has been suggested in the past. Maul's viewpoint can coincide with the objective description of Jinn's response. Qui-Gon barely blocks the attack, which is absolute fact, since this comes from the script itself. The definition of "barely" from the online Oxford dictionary is "Only just; almost not." Thus, Qui-Gon "only just" blocked Maul's overhead attack. From Maul's POV, Jinn's "readiness" is emphasised, "The Jedi meets my first blow, blocking it. He has expected my flying maneuver." (DMJ) and "Qui-Gon’s shrewd readiness had almost taken Maul off his guard." (EG). Thus the apparent dilemma is two opposing descriptions, however these do not contradict. The definition of "shrewd" from the online Oxford dictionary is "Having or showing sharp powers of judgement; astute." In a similar vein, the definition of "expected" from the online Oxford dictionary is "Regard (something) as likely to happen." Thus, Maul isn't saying that Qui-Gon necessarily easily deflected the blow, rather he showed astute judgement (shrewd) and predicted Maul's attack as likely to happen (expected) and responded accordingly. Of course, the Jedi Master only just blocked the attack, but this isn't necessarily bad for Jinn. His surprise of being attacked by a figure with a lightsaber is made evident in the source material, "Qui-Gon, surprised by the other's quickness and ferocity, barely blocked the blow with his own weapon" (Novel), and "But the first ferocious clash of their blades had told him that the Jedi was equally surprised ... Regardless, Qui-Gon had quieted his mind and brought his imposing might to bear against Maul’s agility." (EG) And "And I feel his surprise at this. Yet he does not let his puzzlement slow him down." (DMJ) Qui-Gon was surprised at the attack, and thus wasn't ready for such an attack to happen. Furthermore, the immediate aftermath of the attack shows Jinn predicting Maul's moves before Maul knows them, thus reinforcing the idea that once Qui-Gon knew what situation he was in, he was perfectly capable of predicting Maul's attacks in ample time.

After the first blow, Qui-Gon is put on the defensive. This is seen in the movie, and described in the novelisation. However, off-screen, Jinn counterattacks, "The combatants surged back and forth across the flats" (Novel), indicating that Qui-Gon was putting Maul on the defensive regularly. Jinn was predicting Maul's moves before Maul even knew them, "Maul lashed out at the Jedi again and again, but the Jedi blocked each blow. Maul was suddenly aware that the Jedi seemed to anticipate each lunge and jab, as if he knew how Maul would move before Maul himself knew." (WoDM) and "I throw away my usual combinations and strategies. This Jedi seems to know how I will move before I do." (DMJ). This is an impressive feat, as it goes beyond simple augmentation and being able to react to each move; rather he's predicting the moves. It's no question that Qui-Gon is slower than Maul, or even Obi-Wan (he is confirmed as much in several sources), but his experience is an edge (Novel), "His edge now, to the extent that he had one, came from his long experience and intuitive grasp of how an adversary might employ a lightsaber against him.") that allows him to know Maul's randomised Juyo movements before Maul knows them, despite being slower and less powerful in the Force. Thus, Qui-Gon’s experience bridges the gap between the two, at least for a period of time.

Maul “throws away his usual combinations and strategies.” (DMJ) After realising Jinn was predicting his moves way in advance. The two combatants were fighting equally for most of the duel. The most powerful evidence for this is that the duel only tipped in Maul's favor just as Qui-Gon escaped, "Then, just when Qui-Gon’s stamina was beginning to flag and the fight was tipping in Maul’s favor, the incomprehensible had occurred: Qui-Gon had fled." (EG) No other statements in the source material contradict that Maul only gained the advantage shortly before Qui-Gon jumped onto the ship. Qui-Gon was matching Maul, "He had matched Maul’s furious strokes with a disciplined intensity all his own." (EG) And "He meets my ferocity with his own." (DMJ) As well as putting Maul on the defensive regularly "The combatants surged back and forth across the flats" (Novel) Per the movie, the duel goes for 38 seconds, most of it happening off screen. Being generous, Qui-Gon was fighting evenly for about half a minute before the duel started tipping in Maul's favor, or when Jinn started to burn out.

Maul’s own surprise at Qui-Gon during and after the engagement is quite telling of Jinn’s combative capabilities. At the onset of the duel, Maul is “surprised at the large man’s speed and skill.” (DMR; DMJ) and notes that Qui-Gon “is a large man with impressive strength.” (DMJ) Jinn matches (or at least comes relatively close to) Maul's augmented strength across the length of the duel, "Our blows send shudders through my body. He meets my strength.” (DMJ) During the short period when Qui-Gon's stamina began to flag and just before he leaped onto the ship, Maul notes "Even through his fatigue, his blows still have power. He is a large man with impressive strength." (DMJ) Qui-Gon is a worthy opponent for his adversary, “After all the droids, assassins, gangsters, and soldiers he had vanquished, finally a worthy opponent.” And “Many a being had run from Maul, but never a worthy one.” (EG) He’s even frustrated that he can’t break through Jinn’s guard, despite knowing he’s stronger in the Force, “Yet he could not find an opening for a final blow. The Jedi was too good.” (DMR)

A common defense for Maul is noting the effects of his leg injury. There's no real grounds for the injury significantly affecting the events of the duel, especially since any drawbacks from the injury were at least partly made up for by Maul directly drawing from the pain to fuel the dark side and therefore amp himself, "It is because of my wound. It has slowed me down somewhat. It is almost imperceptible, but it is there [...] This realization sends more rage pumping into my body. I am angry at myself, but I use the anger to fuel the dark side." (DMJ), and "Maul felt the pain in his leg become more intense. He became angry at himself for being wounded, used the anger to fuel the dark side, and directed his rage at the Jedi." (WoDM) Furthermore, despite the wound, Maul notes his footwork being the best it had ever been, "I accelerate my pace, calling on my anger to increase my power. My footwork has never been so brilliant. I use the shifting sand as resistance." (DMJ) Overall, there doesn't appear to be compelling evidence that any overall decrease in combative ability was significant enough to seriously affect the sequence of events as they happened. Furthermore, in the Resurrection story in Tales #9, Maul refers to Sidious teaching him not to break a fall, but instead to take the pain, explaining “there is no pain where strength lies.” (Tales #9). Maul demonstrates this in the Naboo duel, so it will be covered more in depth there.

Concerning the duel on Tatooine, Darth Maul is stronger, quicker and younger than Qui-Gon, but the Jedi Master can bridge the gap via a combination of his own augmentation, skill and experience in lightsaber dueling. Due to his more advanced age, a lot of his augmentation has to be lavishly spent on preventing onset of fatigue, and as he's weaker in the Force than his adversary, he burns out relatively quickly. However, he fights evenly, "back and forth" with his opponent for half a minute before only starting to fatigue. Below, the analysis of the Naboo duel will demonstrate that even a near exhausted Jinn can hold his own against the Sith Lord.

Naboo


There’s a plethora of context surrounding the Naboo fight that must be explained so that the duel can make sense. The typical approach to analysing this duel is that Maul was the clear superior to both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan combined; some even go as far as claiming Maul wasn’t really trying or that the fight was easy for him, typically based on out-of-context quotes. The fact is that Maul was aided by a variety of factors that allowed him to fight both Jedi simultaneously.

It’s important to note from the very start that Maul had planned before the fight to separate the two Jedi, in fact it’s stated he “knew that Jinn would be difficult to defeat in tandem with his padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi. He had to separate the two and the power generating complex linked to the Theed Hangar offered Maul the best chance to do this.” (Official Starships & Vehicles Collection 21) Before the battle, Maul examines the generator complex where the trio fight, committing its layout to “both mental and muscle memory” (EG). He also memorises the pattern of the laser gates, “but in the end he had learned enough about the timing of the gates to provide himself with a slight advantage.” And at the actual pit itself, Maul plans out his attack, “Maul paced the circular rim of the core, gazing down into the blackness; then he turned from the view to imagine and direct how the lightsaber duel would unfold. He would use the laser gates to separate the Jedi. He looked around. Yes: he would kill one of them just there.” (EG) Such an advantage and pre-planning is a significant advantage in Maul’s favor that is seldom factored into the balance of the trio.

Maul’s saberstaff gave him an advantage in fighting two opponents simultaneously. It “enabled him to battle Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi simultaneously.” And made him “capable of tackling two opponents at once.” (FF) The Ultimate Visual Guide goes as far as to say “With his double bladed lightsaber, Maul is the equal of two Jedi, who are unprepared for his powers.” Furthermore, the Book of Sith actually states “The saberstaff is ideal for defeating multiple opponents”. At the very minimum, it’s reasonable to assume that the saberstaff aided Darth Maul during the duel specifically because he was fighting two opponents.

Despite these advantages, Maul wasn't outright winning the combat. The novelisation makes it clear that all three were using “every skill they had acquired” right from the start of the duel. Despite this, Maul only “threatened to eclipse the skills of the two Jedi.” (FF) Darth Sidious chastises Maul for not going for the queen and ignoring the Jedi “if he could not dispatch them quickly”, implying of course that Maul certainly did not have that capability (DMJ). This further corroborated a little time later in the novelisation, describing the Sith Lord as “relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense.” Thus is should be quite clear that, even if quotes from Maul’s POV have him fighting off the Jedi “easily” (WoDM), the novelisation takes precedence as a source; nor are the two mutually exclusive. The novelisation even makes note of this, “constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks [...]” and “But Qui-Gon recognized that while it might seem as if the Jedi were driving him before them, it was the Sith Lord who was controlling the struggle.” Maul was using all his skills, but also leading the Jedi on (even though Qui-Gon was aware of it) in order to separate them. He could control the fight, but in no way could he end it as easily, as Sidious points out above.

The trio moved out of the hangar and into the generator complex itself. Sidious relays: “Qui-Gon Jinn took the lead. A powerful warrior, I suspect he surprised Maul with his stamina.” (DMJ) As the duel spilled out onto the catwalks, Maul “caught Obi-Wan off balance and with a powerful kick knocked the Jedi completely over the railing.” (Novel) In response, Qui-Gon “forces” Maul off the catwalk as well, “surprising” the Sith Lord and leaving him “visibly stunned” (Novel; WoDM). It’s here that Maul’s pain and its effect on his combative performance should be examined a little more closely. As aforementioned, Maul in Tales #9 explains that Sidious taught him not to break a fall, and also states “There is no pain where strength lies.” This is interesting, because Maul seems to follow exactly that after Jinn knocked him over the catwalk, “Maul did not cry out. He knew the shaft's central catwalk lay below him. He kept his lightsaber activated and held its pommel close to his chest as he landed hard on his back on the catwalk. The impact would have broken an ordinary man's back, but Maul was not by any means ordinary. He did feel pain, but as ever, the pain only fueled his rage.” (WoDM) Here, Maul doesn’t break the fall, instead he follows the maxim he later spouts in Tales, “If you are prepared to break your fall, you are not prepared for the fall itself [...] Sith do not fall! [...] There is no pain where strength lies.” Maul therefore deliberately allows the pain to come so that he can draw from it to fuel his rage. He also does this in the Tatooine duel, and thus I do not believe that in either duel, the leg injury seriously affected him combatively, despite the quote from the NEGtC suggesting it did: “Had he [Maul] not run into Togorian pirates and Sand People along the way, perhaps he would have been at full strength for the final conflict inside the Theed generator.”

Around this point in the fight, Obi-Wan recalls in both his recollection to Yoda of the battle and in his official report that he sensed Maul knew he was going to lose, and thus separated the two (Star Wars Episode I: Obi-Wan Kenobi Issue; JvS). Of course, he didn’t know that Maul planned to separate them via the laser gates, but his testimony is still useful in that, at least from his POV, he believed the duo were winning, and even claims to “sense” that Maul was aware of this. Although the validity of these quotes is questionable, it’s still noticeable that Maul recognised the need to separate his opponents: “Jinn would be difficult to deal with in tandem with his padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi. He [Maul] had to separate the two and the power generating complex linked to the Theed Hangar offered Maul the best chance to do this.” (Official Starships & Vehicles Collection 21)

While Obi-Wan was recovering, the fight continued. Jinn maintained the offensive, “Qui-Gon was in pursuit of Darth Maul, following him down the catwalk toward a small door at the far end of the power station. The Jedi Master went swiftly, legs and arms pumping, lightsaber flashing.” (Novel) Maul had been “taking the battle in a new direction.” (Ibid) And from his own POV, he is confirmed as deliberately moving towards the laser gates, luring Qui-Gon in, “Maul leered again at Qui-Gon. You think you're driving me back. You have no idea that I'm in control. You don't know where I'm taking you.” (WoDM) At this point, Jinn is nearly exhausted, “He was worn and battered by now, close to exhaustion, but the Sith Lord was on the defensive at last, and he did not want to give him a chance to regroup.” (Ibid) It’s significant that even now, with Jinn approaching exhaustion, and Kenobi still quite far away from the battle, Maul still opts to continue with his plan, indicating that he needed time to dismantle Jinn, and couldn’t simply counterattack and kill him before Kenobi rejoined. In the movie, this is a full half minute that Maul had to potentially kill his nearly exhausted Jedi opponent.

With the combatants trapped by the laser gates, an interim in the fighting occurred. Qui-Gon’s meditation has usually been argued as an “amp” that explains his performance in the final bout. There’s no grounds for this. Jinn merely centered himself and recovered some of his force reserves. During the previous section of the duel, he had lost his balance, “Be in the moment, Qui-Gon told himself. The Sith Lord had shaken him. He would need to regain his balance. Qui-Gon sat. Closing his eyes, he meditated and waited.” (Adventures #15) Furthermore, his meditation had simply refreshed his reserves, which is explicitly stated by the novel itself, “He [Qui-Gon] had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation”. So then why did Qui-Gon’s performance here excel at every other point previously against his opponent? As aforementioned, it’s usually chalked down to his meditation providing an amp, however this doesn’t fit in with the description that he had merely recovered a reserve of strength, not an increase. The reason can be found within four separate sources. The novel, “He [Qui-Gon] was gathering himself for a final assault, bringing himself in tune with the Force.” The script itself, “QUI-GON is in a split second fighting the DARK LORD with a ferocity not seen before.” The Junior novelisation, “And Qui-Gon was fighting more fiercely than Obi-Wan had ever seen him fight before.” And Adventures #15, “Qui-Gon went after the Sith Lord with all he had”. It would seem then that Qui-Gon conducted a desperate all-out assault to kill Maul and end the duel there, fighting like never before.

The generator pit beyond the laser gates seems to have been chosen by Maul specifically for the immense combative advantage it provided to him, “The relatively confined area would favour Maul's fighting style, making it incredibly difficult for the Jedi to counter him.” (Starships and Vehicles #21) Thus the room served a dual purpose; not only to separate the Jedi so that he could dismantle one after the other, but also to provide an environment where his fighting style was significantly advantaged. With these advantages, he’d be able to safely dispatch each of them one by one, while also having a significant stylistic advantage.

Despite these disadvantages, Qui-Gon seemingly almost succeeded in his plan. The main passage is important enough to post in full:

Code:
It appeared that the Jedi Master would. He had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied. With quick, hard strokes of his lightsaber, he bored into his adversary, deliberately engaging in close-quarters combat, refusing to let the other bring his double-bladed weapon to bear. He drove Darth Maul backward about the rim of the overhang, keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily. Qui-Gon Jinn might no longer be young, but he was still powerful. Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty.

Jinn’s attack “seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied.” This is corroborated as fact in Adventures #15: “Qui-Gon went after the Sith Lord with all he had - a fury of lightsaber slashes that sent the black-clad warrior reeling.” From the Oxford Online Dictionary, the definition of “stymied” is to “prevent or hinder the progress of”; the definition of “reeling”: “Lose one’s balance and stagger or lurch violently.” Qui-Gon’s attack therefore seemingly prevented Maul from making any counterattack, and kept him staggering or constantly off balance from the power and speed of his attacks, “keeping the Sith Lord constantly on the defensive, pressing in on him steadily.” It was also enough to make Maul uncertain about the outcome of the bout, “Darth Maul's ragged face took on a frenzied look, and the glitter of his strange eyes brightened with uncertainty.”

The ferocity of the attack was such that Maul was forced to jump out of the battle to recover, “Then Darth Maul back-flipped across the melting pit, giving himself some space in which to recover, gaining just enough time to assume a new battle stance.” (Novel) But Qui-Gon was moving so fast that he was attacking Maul “in an instant”, Maul was barely able to adopt a new stance before his opponent had closed the gap. However, Qui-Gon couldn't keep up this state for long. He was already near exhaustion when he reached the laser gates, and his meditation could only give him back a portion of his Force reserves. “But he was beginning to weary now from carrying the battle alone. His strokes were not so vigorous as before his face bathed with sweat and taut with fatigue.” (Ibid) Maul only “slowly edges” back into the fight per the novel, and they continue to duel “locked in a combat that seemed endless and forever and could be won by neither.” (Ibid)

The sources seem to suggest that even in a state of decline, Jinn’s defenses were too difficult to penetrate. Maul uses a hilt bash to the chin to catch Jinn “off guard” (Script). Sidious’ description: “The battle with Qui-Gon ended with a simple move, a trick: Using the hilt of a lightsaber to knock an opponent under the chin. Maul usually disdained such blunt maneuvers. He is - was - an elegant fighter. Precise. But when he saw his opening, no doubt he remembered my lesson.” (DMJ) Darth Maul went out of his preferred modus operandi to get through Jinn’s defenses; Adventures #15 implies something similar: “The Sith Lord struck back with his blades, but neither came close. So he hit Qui-Gon on the jaw.” Another impressive showing of Jinn’s skill and experience; suggesting perhaps that Maul needed to actually stun the exhausted master via the force of a physical hit to penetrate his guard.

Conclusions


Aforementioned analysis of the Tatooine duel indicated that Qui-Gon was capable of matching Maul as an equal for about half a minute before beginning to fatigue. The Naboo duel is evidence that a Jinn fighting for his life can put on an impressive show against an opponent of Maul's calibre before being bested. On Tatooine, Maul was going all-out, fighting a “no-quarters” contest; and on Naboo he was using “all the skills” he had against the Jedi, and recognised he had to separate them. Maul wasn’t holding back, or “toying”, and Qui-Gon could fight him for about a minute. Sidious himself takes note of Jinn as a "powerful warrior", with "surprising stamina", and even notes how glad he is that his training allowed Maul to kill "the great Qui-Gon Jinn." Capability to contend for such a long time against an opponent like Darth Maul is indicative of Jinn’s power and skill as a swordsman. This propels him above most of the Jedi council, who simply fail to match the feat; notwithstanding Jinn’s sheer level of accolades vis-a-vis his swordsmanship, power in the Force, and eligibility to sit on the Jedi council.

Appendix A - Accolades


Council Accolades



If you prove yourself to be among the most skilled and wise Jedi, then you may be given the highest honour — a seat on the Jedi High Council.
-Mysteries of the Jedi

Jinn has sometimes clashed with the Jedi High Council over his favoring of risk and action: as a result, he has not been offered a seat on the Council.
-Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia - Updated and Expanded

Plo Koon tried to convince his comrade to join him on the Jedi Council, but Qui-Gon refused to be tied down to their orthodox philosophies.
-New Essential Guide to Characters

Qui-Gon has risen to great prominence within the Jedi order, and is well-known to the members of the High Council. Yet in spite of his outstanding service as a Jedi Knight and Master, Qui-Gon has been passed by for a seat on the Council. This is due to his bold, headstrong nature and his favouring of risk and action, which sometimes bring him into disagreement with his Jedi peers and elders.
-Star Wars: Episode I Visual Dictionary

Qui-Gon was a master of the Jedi arts, and strong in the Force. Had he not gained a reputation as a maverick, he could well expect to have been voted on to the Jedi Council.
-The Official Star Wars Fact File

He's never served on the Jedi Council, because his contact with the Force in all things transcends political considerations.
-Obi-Wan: Prima's Official Strategy Guide

Despite his strength and wisdom, Qui-Gon has never sat on the Jedi council due to his unconventional views.
-Star Wars: Episode 1 Game Manual

A Jedi Master who was known as one of the Order's most formidable members, but his recklessness and his devotion to bizarre causes kept him from becoming a member of the Jedi Council.
-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Although considered a powerful Jedi Master, his independent nature and past failures have kept him off the Jedi Council. He took Obi-Wan under his wing in the hope he could redeem his failure with Xanatos.
-Prima's Star Wars Episode I Jedi Power Battles Guide

"Master, you could be sitting on the Council by now if you would just follow the code. You deserve to be sitting on the Council." Obi-Wan's frustration surfaced in a burst of momentary anger. His eyes sought the other's and held them. "They will not go along with you this time."
-TPM Novelisation (Kenobi talking to Jinn)

"I know that some of you have discussed Master Qui-Gon Jinn as a possible candidate. But I would counsel caution. Despite his mastery of the Force, he is headstrong and willful."
Jedi Council: Acts of War 4

GOAT Accolades



Meet the most famous and powerful Jedi Knights of all time.
-Mysteries of the Jedi

[Maul] succeeded in destroying one of the galaxy's greatest Jedi Knights.
-The Official Star Wars Fact File

One of the greatest living Jedi Knights…
-Chronicles

Swordsman Accolades



Qui-Gon, a master duelist by anyone's standards [...]
-New Essential Guide to Characters

Qui-Gon Jinn [...] an expert with a lightsabre.
-The Official Star Wars Fact File

Qui-Gon Jinn is a master swordsman and a seasoned warrior.
-Chronicles

He's the most skilled of the Jedi warriors.
-Obi-Wan: Prima's Official Strategy Guide

He is one of the most skilled of the Jedi warriors.
-Star Wars: Episode 1 Game Manual

Jinn was generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen.
-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi Order.
-TPM Novelisation

He was the best swordsman Obi-Wan had ever seen [...]
-TPM Novelisation

Instead, in his [Maul’s] eagerness to face off at last with a celebrated Jedi lightsaber Master, he had leapt into action …
-Star Wars: End Game [from the perspective of Darth Maul on Tatooine]

To be honest, I expected much more from Qui-Gon's former padawan.
-Star Wars: Most Precious Weapon [from the perspective of Dooku]

Fighting Style/Experience/Knowledge/Power Accolades



His edge [against Darth Maul] now, to the extent that he had one, came from his long experience and intuitive grasp of how an adversary might employ a lightsaber against him.
-TPM Novelisation

He [Qui-Gon] strides into battle calm and focused, every move calculated and precise. He wields his lightsaber with grace and a refined style. Nearly 40 years older than Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon is slower than the young Knight. Experience has taught him, however, that sometimes focus is a more powerful ally than agility.
-Prima's Star Wars Episode I Jedi Power Battles Guide

[Qui-Gon has] a beautiful fighting style with deadly calm.
-Prima's Star Wars Episode I Jedi Power Battles Guide

His [Mace Windu’s] fighting style is graceful and precise, albeit a bit deadlier than Qui-Gon.
-Prima's Star Wars Episode I Jedi Power Battles Guide

Obi-Wan thought of Qui-Gon, and of Mace Windu-he had seen both of them almost ebullient even in difficult situations requiring deep concentration.
-Star Wars: Rogue Planet [from the perspective of Obi-Wan]

Though he is in his sixties, with his long hair turning gray, he is still an active and powerful warrior.
-Star Wars Episode I Qui-Gon Jinn Mega-Collectible

Qui-Gon Jinn took the lead. A powerful warrior, I suspect he surprised Maul with his stamina.
-Episode I Darth Maul Journal

Never had Obi-Wan seen such a display of the Force from a Padawan. From the great Jedi Masters, yes. From Qui-Gon, near the end of his life. But from someone so young? Anakin's power astonished him. He had glimpsed it before, but now he had seen it unfurl, and it staggered him.
-The School of Fear


Last edited by Meatpants on June 3rd 2019, 5:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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on June 2nd 2019, 10:02 am
First.


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on June 2nd 2019, 10:17 am
Excellent work.
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on June 2nd 2019, 10:21 am
Absolutely wonderful work MP.
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on June 2nd 2019, 12:15 pm
This work is awesome... Blog | Qui-Gon Jinn TPM Feat Analysis and Accolades 3750555731
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on June 2nd 2019, 12:28 pm
I’ve never seen something like that in my life...congratulations MP, really good blog.
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on June 2nd 2019, 1:15 pm
The Cosmic Force wrote:Excellent work.
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on June 3rd 2019, 5:07 am
Made some edits to the Naboo duel, specifically after Jinn starts to decline in the final bout, and an edit to the conclusion. Jinn can fight Maul for about a minute, which is more than any B-team member or similar can attest to feat-wise.
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on June 21st 2019, 2:23 am
Read over this now. Great work.
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on July 11th 2019, 6:50 pm
For the most part I agree with this breakdown save for a few trivial points.

A few comments:

In regards to the Naboo duel, yeah there definitely isn't any solid evidence Maul was toying or holding back as I've seen some claim in the past. Only that Maul wasn't feeling particularly hard-pressed as per TWODM.

Don't really agree with the notion Maul had an environmental advantage in the reactor chamber despite the quote saying it would have hindered Jinn and Kenobi; it certainly wouldn't have logically hindered them any more than it would Maul who visually makes more extensive use of acrobatics than even Kenobi let alone Jinn who practically never uses acrobatics. The way I see it if a quote is visually or logically contradicted then it can be discredited.

Do agree that Maul's committing the location to muscle memory was a mitigating advantage. I don't think it overshadows Jinn and Kenobi's 2-1 advantage or their perfect chemistry but it certainty helped.

Yeah the quote stating Maul was injured from a non-violent encounter with Sand People and a wound from the Togarian pirates that was already nearly healed before he even left Tatooine is garbage.

Jinn anticipating Maul's moves before he even did is impressive and I'm willing to bet Watson pulled it from TPM novel quote about Jinn's edge in his intuitive grasp in how an adversary may employ a lightsaber against him in combat.

Yeah Maul's drawing on his pain and frustration did compensate for the injury but again when he does the battle shifts decisively in his favor. So while Jinn's batting an injured Maul and gaining his respect and acknowledgement is impressive there is still a considerable gap between their full capabilities.

As for Jinn's last stand here's the way I see it. He was "amped' in the sense he had prep to center himself, but it's requires a strong connection to the Force to begin with so I still say it's an impressive feat for him. Also there's a reason people don't go all out in ferocity at the onset of a duel: it's tiring. If your enemy can withstand the initial assault you are going to be drained as indeed Jinn was. Jinn basically went all out in a last ditch attempt and almost succeeded but Maul was just good enough to withstand the ferocity and when he regained the advantage Jinn was too exhausted to do anything about it.

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on July 12th 2019, 1:54 am
It's not just acrobatics but the incorporation and emphasis of the said acrobatics into dueling. Maul uses acrobatics because it suits his style but there is no binding limitation ascribed to his style in terms of acrobatics i.e. form 7 does not need acrobatics to function effectively and can or should have a substitute in case it does not work out. In that sense you can easily rationalize the quote because no piece of evidence ever points to Maul being hindered in a tight space in the mythos

But Ataru is a form devoted for said acrobatics in combat. It's not the fact that the Jedi use them with lesser frequency, it is the fact that it is critical to their success in using the form, i.e. the acrobatic maneuvers they use are far more important and crucial to their success than the ones Maul uses and this is echoed in various sources that state that Ataru is mainly an acrobatic form and IIRC is to be used in open spaces

It is not about the frequency but the main built of the form and the integration. Hence I don't think it is fair to dismiss the quote based on such a conclusion because you haven't really gone into the details of the forms
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on July 12th 2019, 4:50 am
I expect your eternal devotion to me MP

Yoda had told him that his former Master had been as powerful, as attuned to the Force, as any they had known.

Credit-The Last One Standing

Yoda thinks Jinn is on par with the most powerful Jedi Masters in history

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on July 12th 2019, 7:41 am
Kilius wrote:In regards to the Naboo duel, yeah there definitely isn't any solid evidence Maul was toying or holding back as I've seen some claim in the past. Only that Maul wasn't feeling particularly hard-pressed as per TWODM.

Well, I take the novelisation as a higher form of canon over WoDM, and Maul uses "all his skills" and searches "relentlessly" for an opening he can exploit.

Kilius wrote:Don't really agree with the notion Maul had an environmental advantage in the reactor chamber despite the quote saying it would have hindered Jinn and Kenobi; it certainly wouldn't have logically hindered them  any more than it would Maul who visually makes more extensive use of acrobatics than even Kenobi let alone Jinn who practically never uses acrobatics. The way I see it if a quote is visually or logically contradicted then it can be discredited.

I'm still shaking up how to interpret/contexualise the quote. I don't think throwing out a whole quote because it doesn't fit literally/plainly is a good idea.

Kilius wrote:Do agree that Maul's committing the location to muscle memory was a mitigating advantage. I don't think it overshadows Jinn and Kenobi's 2-1 advantage or their perfect chemistry but it certainty helped.

I know there's at least one source saying that fighting as a team can actually impair; but the addition of Obi-Wan created a sort of stalemate.

Kilius wrote:Yeah the quote stating Maul was injured from a non-violent encounter with Sand People and a wound from the Togarian pirates that was already nearly healed before he even left Tatooine is garbage.

I'm not convinced it had any real impact on either duel, no.

Kilius wrote:Yeah Maul's drawing on his pain and frustration did compensate for the injury but again when he does the battle shifts decisively in his favor. So while Jinn's batting an injured Maul and gaining his respect and acknowledgement is impressive there is still a considerable gap between their full capabilities.

Not entirely sure what you're saying here, but I'm not arguing Qui-Gon is even close to Maul, really. I'm just scaling him off Maul via his performance.

Kilius wrote:As for Jinn's last stand here's the way I see it. He was "amped' in the sense he had prep to center himself, but it's requires a strong connection to the Force to begin with so I still say it's an impressive feat for him. Also there's a reason people don't go all out in ferocity at the onset of a duel: it's tiring. If your enemy can withstand the initial assault you are going to be drained as indeed Jinn was. Jinn basically went all out in a last ditch attempt and almost succeeded but Maul was just good enough to withstand the ferocity and when he regained the advantage Jinn was too exhausted to do anything about it.

AotC Kenobi can focus himself and replicate something similar. Anyway, the sources specifically say that he restored a portion of his force reserves. Him fighting harder than usual isn't mutually exclusive with the meditiation.
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on July 12th 2019, 8:11 pm
@LOTL wrote:It's not just acrobatics but the incorporation and emphasis of the said acrobatics into dueling. (...)But Ataru is a form devoted for said acrobatics in combat. It's not the fact that the Jedi use them with lesser frequency, it is the fact that it is critical to their success in using the form, i.e. the acrobatic maneuvers they use are far more important and crucial to their success than the ones Maul uses and this is echoed in various sources that state that Ataru is mainly an acrobatic form and IIRC is to be used in open spaces

It is not about the frequency but the main built of the form and the integration.

Depends on the practitioner. Jinn especially doesn't really rely on acrobatics; maybe in his younger days(he's noticeably more nimble in The Dark Side comics) but certainly not as of TPM or even JA for that matter. He typically relies on footwork. Even Kenobi as evidenced most notably in his sparring match with Jinn typically just comes at you in a straight line, face-to-face, not a whole lot of emphasis on flank subversion or flipping around your foe. Even in the hangar, the most he employed was a forward overhead flip and the infamous spinning attack. Neighter of which he would be inhibited from employing the confined reactor core as evidenced by the fact he still did them anyways and Mauls performing of more complex maneuvers in the same space.

Maul uses acrobatics because it suits his style but there is no binding limitation ascribed to his style in terms of acrobatics i.e. form 7 does not need acrobatics to function effectively and can or should have a substitute in case it does not work out. In that sense, you can easily rationalize the quote because no piece of evidence ever points to Maul being hindered in a tight space in the mythos

He may not be limited to acrobatics but it's clearly his preferred method of attack; and not just TPM practically all his comic appearances and prose fighting depictions. In any case, Maul didn't seem to have any particular trouble in employing the same complex maneuvers he employed in the spacious hangar set so yes I agree Maul wasn't hindered because it didn't show. And neither logically should the Jedi.

Hence I don't think it is fair to dismiss the quote based on such a conclusion because you haven't really gone into the details of the forms

I know the details of Jinn and Kenobi's personal styles from The Dark Side comics, through JA, and all the way up to TPM. I maintain that nothing they regularly employ in the way of acrobatic maneuvers would have hindered them logically more so than Maul based on his own fighting style. There's nothing wrong, unfair, or dishonest about dismissing quotes that don't make sense based on higher canon sources or just basic logic.



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on July 12th 2019, 9:18 pm
Midlife Crisis wrote:Well, I take the novelization as a higher form of canon over WoDM, and Maul uses "all his skills" and searches "relentlessly" for an opening he can exploit.

Thing is they're not mutually exclusive, as you yourself pointed out. And frankly, you're really downplaying the advantage Maul had over the duo, at least in the beginning portion of the fight.

The script depicts Maul as "outmaneuvering the Jedi at every turn" and the Novel "his agility and dexterity allowed him to keep both at bay while constantly attacking and effectively blunting their counterattacks and relentless searching for openings in their defense" And this is all before they even took the fight to the catwalks, so the environment isn't an excuse, just his superior skill, agility, and to some extent the adavatages of the saberstaff. Maul "only" threatened to eclipse their combined skills comes from in-universe: Anakin's opinion and FF's, neither quote was meant to hype the Jedi or downplay Maul's advantage anyway. The argument that Maul's ease is just his "arrogant opinion" really doesn't work because Maul is perfectly willing to admit when he is challenged as he did against Jinn on Naboo.

The fact that Maul was using all his skills and searching relentlessly for an opening just means he was going all out, it doesn't speak to how hardpressed he was.

Maul may have lost his edge when the two Jedi pinned him on the catwallk hence the quotes stating "Maul needed to separate them".

I know there's at least one source saying that fighting as a team can actually impair; but the addition of Obi-Wan created a sort of stalemate.

In the novel, it's clear they didn't hinder each other though:

"They fought together before and knew each other's moves".

I'm not convinced it had any real impact on either duel, no.

He certainly "wasn't at his best" on the Tatooine duel. Taking the fight to and pressuring an injured Maul is still impressive though.


Not entirely sure what you're saying here, but I'm not arguing Qui-Gon is even close to Maul, really. I'm just scaling him off Maul via his performance.

You're trying to downplay the significance of the injury by stating he drew power from his pain and frustration. But he only does that mid-way and once he does the tide turns decisively in his favor. Before that, he was explicitly stated to be "not at his best".

AotC Kenobi can focus himself and replicate something similar. Anyway, the sources specifically say that he restored a portion of his force reserves. Him fighting harder than usual isn't mutually exclusive with the meditiation.

Maybe not. I'm just saying even if the meditation was the source it's still a great feat for Jinn anyways since it was his connection to the Force that would have allowed for the increase in ability if indeed that was an increase. It could very well be that he was just fighting more aggressively and as I said before the reason he didn't do so prior is that it's inadvisable in general as it would rapidly deplete his stamina if the enemy can withstand the initial assault.

Bottomline Jinn's performance against Maul was stellar in both duels and it gives him scaling and standing over many of his contemporaries but let's not push things out of perspective. Maul was certainly hindered on Tatooine and he was as per most relevant souces winning on Naboo at least in the initial stage.


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on July 14th 2019, 12:50 am
Kilius wrote:Thing is they're not mutually exclusive, as you yourself pointed out. And frankly, you're really downplaying the advantage Maul had over the duo, at least in the beginning portion of the fight.

The script depicts Maul as "outmaneuvering the Jedi at every turn" and the Novel "his agility and dexterity allowed him to keep both at bay while constantly attacking and effectively blunting their counterattacks and relentless searching for openings in their defense" And this is all before they even took the fight to the catwalks, so the environment isn't an excuse, just his superior skill, agility, and to some extent the adavatages of the saberstaff. Maul "only" threatened to eclipse their combined skills comes from in-universe: Anakin's opinion and FF's, neither quote was meant to hype the Jedi or downplay Maul's advantage anyway. The argument that Maul's ease is just his "arrogant opinion" really doesn't work because Maul is perfectly willing to admit when he is challenged as he did against Jinn on Naboo.

The fact that Maul was using all his skills and searching relentlessly for an opening just means he was going all out, it doesn't speak to how hardpressed he was.

Maul may have lost his edge when the two Jedi pinned him on the catwallk hence the quotes stating "Maul needed to separate them".

This is why I plan to rewrite this and incorporate it in an RT for Qui-Gon. I needed to present a more balanced viewpoint by providing counter sources. Regardless, I don't think you're entirely correct here. The full quote from Starships and Vehicles is:

Official Starships & Vehicles Collection 21 wrote:The Sith apprentice had briefly battled Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn on Tatooine and knew that Jinn would be difficult to deal with in tandem with his padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi. He had to separate the two and the power generating complex linked to the Theed Hanger offered Maul the best chance to do this.

It specifically says that Maul knew before the fight that it would be difficult, and that he needed to separate them to defeat them. Hence why he commits the entire complex to muscle and mental memory. Although Maul using all of his skills yet outmaneuvering the Jedi are mutually exclusive, that doesn't mean that Maul could have just won, or was "toying". You didn't argue that, but just nipping it in the bud.

Kilius wrote:You're trying to downplay the significance of the injury by stating he drew power from his pain and frustration. But he only does that mid-way and once he does the tide turns decisively in his favor. Before that, he was explicitly stated to be "not at his best".

Maul also says his footwork has never been better, and according to the old Databank, "Qui-Gon was utterly surprised and unprepared for such an attack." This probably offsets the minor inconvenience of the injury. To my memory, it's only Maul's POV that mentions a definitive hinderance from the wound, and even he describes it as "somewhat" slowing him down.

Kilius wrote:Maybe not. I'm just saying even if the meditation was the source it's still a great feat for Jinn anyways since it was his connection to the Force that would have allowed for the increase in ability if indeed that was an increase. It could very well be that he was just fighting more aggressively and as I said before the reason he didn't do so prior is that it's inadvisable in general as it would rapidly deplete his stamina if the enemy can withstand the initial assault.

I think it's more about Qui-Gon's superb ability to focus. Maul barely withstood the assault, he had to jump out of the way to prevent himself from being killed.
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