Darth Malak vs Darth Caedus

BreakofDawn wrote:@KingofBlades Forgot about KFV, my bad.

Sidious, KFV, Vitiate, Plagueis, Krayt. Vitiate and Plagueis are interchangeable. 

@The Lord of Hunger Suited Vader is at his peak a top tier 8. Plagueis and Tenebrous are somewhere between 8 and 9.

BreakofDawn wrote:@KingofBlades Forgot about KFV, my bad.

Sidious, KFV, Vitiate, Plagueis, Krayt. Vitiate and Plagueis are interchangeable. 

@The Lord of Hunger Suited Vader is at his peak a top tier 8. Plagueis and Tenebrous are somewhere between 8 and 9.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@IG (Exists) So you concede to my argument only to immediately call it "speculation" afterwards and reiterate your original statement after having it methodically debunked at every stage? That's dishonesty and bad faith if I've ever seen it.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@IG (Exists):

I know exactly what you're saying lmao.

That's clearly not the case, otherwise you wouldn't have brought up an irrelevant point about a nexus amp only to immediately concede on it.

To begin, Vitiate being able to overwhelm Revan with charged lightning is nothing new. For example, as Sidious increased the intensity of his lightning against Mace Windu (granted Mace was amped, but this is a situation with an amp too, so it's irrelevant), Mace was overwhelmed, noting that Sidious' (not as charged as Vitiate's) lightning was "too much for Vaapad". Before this, Mace was able to stalemate Sidious, if not outright best him.

The distinction being Mace was overwhelmed after an extended contest between him in Sheev in force power, in stark contrast to Revan being roasted on the floor instantly.

Revan being "nigh-instantaneously overwhelmed" by Vitiate is something that makes me think that you should do exactly what you've suggested to me at this stage, read. Within seconds, Revan is able to get up from this assault.

Revan's subsequent recovery is irrelevant to the comparison itself.

Despite the article being about Jacen's morality, his "excessively high opinion" of himself is still withstanding. I don't see why said opinion of himself differs from his abilities to his (what, morality?).

The line itself is regarding Jacen's opinion of his own fallibility, as is made abundantly clear by looking at the wider context of the statement. No mention is made of his abilities, just his own actions and the delusion and self justification that plagues them.

The quote you yourself supplies also refers to Jacen's morality in a way, so does it really matter if the quote I've supplied ties back to

The difference is the quote you posted makes no reference of Jacen's abilities, unlike mine. We don't try to force a contradiction where there isn't any, we default to presuming the statement is referring to the larger context of the paragraph, which in this case is Jacen's morality.

His high opinion of himself causes him to refuse to accept the consequences to his actions, yes, but there's nothing that limits the quote from referring to his opinion of his own abilities either.

What you're suggesting is that we simply presume the quote is referring to something it never mentions, rather than what it does. How does that make the slightest bit of sense?

Beyond this, Jacen's faith in his abilities not being misplaced doesn't necessarily mean that he's correct.

The definition of misplaced:

Google wrote:Not appropriate or correct in the circumstances.

So, Jacen's opinion isn't incorrect. I wonder what that means...

Jacen was described as having a "boy's expression of anger", and this is clearly an emotional response.

That's Anakin, not Jacen. Have you read the book?

This response, like its predecessor, was meme tier.

IG (Exists) wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@EmperorCaedus Done, haappy?

Yes.

Now just waiting on the Revanites to respond.

A lot of this is essentially based upon my arguments in our SS. Namely, Kun's Senate TP. Where Jacen struggles to telepathically influence around a hundred or so people, Kun outright dominates the entire Senate with TP. This is a clear showing of superiority. 

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@EmperorCaedus Done, haappy?

Yes.

Now just waiting on the Revanites to respond.

A lot of this is essentially based upon my arguments in our SS. Namely, Kun's Senate TP. Where Jacen struggles to telepathically influence around a hundred or so people, Kun outright dominates the entire Senate with TP. This is a clear showing of superiority. 

Using Telepathy as the basis of an argument for where you are trying to draw a direct comparison between two characters is flawed. Telepathy isn’t a good thing to use as a proxy for force power. An example of a good proxy for force power would probably be telekinesis.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:The "BS" that destroyed you you mean.

IG (Exists) wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@EmperorCaedus Done, haappy?

Yes.

Now just waiting on the Revanites to respond.

A lot of this is essentially based upon my arguments in our SS. Namely, Kun's Senate TP. Where Jacen struggles to telepathically influence around a hundred or so people, Kun outright dominates the entire Senate with TP. This is a clear showing of superiority. 

Using Telepathy as the basis of an argument for where you are trying to draw a direct comparison between two characters is flawed. Telepathy isn’t a good thing to use as a proxy for force power. An example of a good proxy for force power would probably be telekinesis.

Why? Don't give me DC's bs about Revan and Vitiate.

BreakofDawn wrote:DC's post was far from "BS". If it were, it wouldn't have just handed you your arse on a silver platter with Revan's tears as a dip.

But it’s probably legit considering he’s right on Telepathy being a faulty proxy for force power and since he’s generally pretty rational when it comes to the arguments I’ve seen him make.

IG (Exists) wrote:@BreakofDswn: I never claimed to be better than him, but I said that the reasoning was illogical. I’m just a Bad debater.